Next Ultimate Scale Axle Project

[rc4wd]

Lets continue the conversation here on this dedicated post.

Feel free to ask Fracture and us if you got any ideas, feedback...



Here is the axle mount




The goal of this axle, is to create the most realistic axle available. With bearing to bearing width of 167mm.

[Gula]

Wow that's clean looking, best so far

[Fracture]

Thanks for the dedicated thread






On the topic of spring mounts,

-What distance do you guys want from spring center to spring center?

-Should it be the same for front and back axle?

-do the spring mounting surfaces need any holes in them to accomodate for leaf pack rivets/bolts?

Any opinions appreciated, Im assuming tlt width would suit most? please share your ideal spring mount spacings...

Yes the mounts are quite large, but theyre small compared to most, they keep the axle halves bolted together, and theyre definately strong enough.

-4link-

As you can see in the leaf spring mount pic, both axle halves are held together by two m3 cap screws. These have a spacing of 12mm which if my information is correct, would allow a tlt shock/link mount to bolt directly ontop of the leaf spring mounting surface?

That should provide a cheap solution to shock and lower link mounts, I assume some sort of thin bent plate crossing the pumpkin is in order for mounting the upper links and servo?

I dislike the idea of an axle mounted servo, but I spose it should be an option for the 4-linkers and such out there - It does seem to function far better than any chassis mounted alternatives.

As usual, expect the updates to flow in, I am committed to seeing the axle through to production so I will do my best to keep it strong, sexy and suitably priced

Steering is all sorted, note the nice little grub screw kingpins, shouldnt get caught up on anything.

If you have your $0.02, please share

Thanks for your help everyone

Sorry for massive post

[Katan]

Originally Posted by Fracture

On the topic of spring mounts,

-do the spring mounting surfaces need any holes in them to accomodate for leaf pack rivets/bolts?

As you can see in the leaf spring mount pic, both axle halves are held together by two m3 cap screws. These have a spacing of 12mm which if my information is correct, would allow a tlt shock/link mount to bolt directly ontop of the leaf spring mounting surface?

Yes you are correct. A hole in the middle of the mount for a M2 cap screw is needed.

I think you need to Chamfer the bottom edges of leaf top plates to soften the suspension like this.


I cant use these cos the damper mount is too close :-(

Machine time with those knuckles and gussets on the back may be an issue? I did have some on my axle but they got removed.

[Fracture]

Thanks man, I will make both those changes. bugger about the damper mount... I hadnt really thought about that much

Maybe, I think I could bend up the side of that plate (the one thats gotta be chamfered) and add a hole to mount a damper to:


Not to scale of course..

Anyways, 2:00 am, must be bed time

[Katan]

Originally Posted by Fracture

Thanks man, I will make both those changes. bugger about the damper mount... I hadnt really thought about that much

Maybe, I think I could bend up the side of that plate (the one thats gotta be chamfered) and add a hole to mount a damper to:


Anyways, 2:00 am, must be bed time

You could but as your going for ultimate scale I dont think you should do that.

Maybe something that is attached to the M3 cap screw at the bottom and fits in between the U bolts at the rear of the axle?

[Coligny]

pass through
straight
straight pass through

(just for those who love their Kamaz trucks)

[lowslowTJ]

Ackernman angle so in-front-of the axle steering will work better (than TLTs)

[mrpink]

Looks VERY GOOD

keep up the nice work, looks aren't everything though... these need to be strong too.

p!nK

[chino63]

Those look great! What kind of gear ratio are we talking about? 2:1? 2.5:1? 3:1? Gear material? How about helical gears? Way more strength than bevel cut gears. Steel gears would be the obvious choice in my opinion.

You guys can all mill over the leaf mount design specifics. Front Bruiser axle spacing is my choice. If I get a set, I will make them work to my liking no matter how they are done up. The things I want to see are:

1) Durability/strength must be there above all other things. This includes all components: axles, gears, stubshafts, housing, etc. (there would be nothing worse than paying top dollar for an axle only to break and wait for new "revised" parts).

2) Please make the turn angle as great as possible. Preferably at least 45 degrees if not 50 degrees.

3) Keep the tube diameter as small as possible (more scale appeal).

4) Please do more R&D testing with people who can give accurate feedback (not random people) before releasing them for sale! Ask around here on RCC to find the most knowledgeable individuals and who have built the most capable rigs. Start a poll if need be to find those individuals. They are the ones you want to test your products and can give you the most accurate feedback.



RC4WD, I commend you on the plethora of options that you have come up with for all of us, but I think you need to refine your choice of materials and design things based upon more real world data. Shiney doesn't cut it for the majority of us. Function and durability are more important as well as serviceability and accessability to replacement parts. These are all things that are looked at in the real 1:1 world whether its rock crawling, racing or just the general automotive industry.

I'm not bashing you or trying to insult you, I just think these are areas that you need to improve upon. Maybe hire on someone with more real world experience in the automotive industry who will compliment your already impressive operation, that will help you become even better in the future.

[Fracture]

Originally Posted by chino63

Those look great! What kind of gear ratio are we talking about? 2:1? 2.5:1? 3:1? Gear material? How about helical gears? Way more strength than bevel cut gears. Steel gears would be the obvious choice in my opinion.

-thats something that will take a while to figure out, at the moment its setup to 2/3 the size highlift gears machined from a stronger steel to compensate for the smaller size and less material, I hope that holds up.

You guys can all mill over the leaf mount design specifics. Front Bruiser axle spacing is my choice. If I get a set, I will make them work to my liking no matter how they are done up. The things I want to see are:

-And that distance is? how does it compare to tlt mounting?

1) Durability/strength must be there above all other things. This includes all components: axles, gears, stubshafts, housing, etc. (there would be nothing worse than paying top dollar for an axle only to break and wait for new "revised" parts).

-I wont let them release something half arsed, but Im no engineer so some trialing will be in order

2) Please make the turn angle as great as possible. Preferably at least 45 degrees if not 50 degrees.

Shit. is that really necissary? I understand the need for good steering, but do you need that much on a scaler?

at the moment its only 35 degrees, thats the most I could get without the dogbone coming partially out of the cup.

If you have some good pictures of what the dogbone/cup etc looks like setup for those angles, please enlighten me.


I should be able to get the casings/knuckles to turn that far though.

3) Keep the tube diameter as small as possible (more scale appeal).

-Yep, 12mm is as small as I can go, that leaves 3mm wall thickness along most of the axle.

4) Please do more R&D testing with people who can give accurate feedback (not random people) before releasing them for sale! Ask around here on RCC to find the most knowledgeable individuals and who have built the most capable rigs. Start a poll if need be to find those individuals. They are the ones you want to test your products and can give you the most accurate feedback.

-I would want to make sure some axles at least go to the appropriate people, Im sure I can help sort that out



RC4WD, I commend you on the plethora of options that you have come up with for all of us, but I think you need to refine your choice of materials and design things based upon more real world data. Shiney doesn't cut it for the majority of us. Function and durability are more important as well as serviceability and accessability to replacement parts. These are all things that are looked at in the real 1:1 world whether its rock crawling, racing or just the general automotive industry.

I'm not bashing you or trying to insult you, I just think these are areas that you need to improve upon. Maybe hire on someone with more real world experience in the automotive industry who will compliment your already impressive operation, that will help you become even better in the future.

All true, I will do my best and hope they do theirs. Testing is key, but this wont be a heavy load axle, thats a given. I would want it ro run sweet on highlifts etc

And ackerman should be easily possible, I usually run it, I just havent got it right now because so many people run knuckles forwards (from what Ive seen)
Maybe 2 knuckles could be released, its a possibility.

Due to the very complex nature of the knuckles and housings, I wouldnt have a clue what the pricing would be, possibly more than a lot of people would be happy with..

[chino63]

Thanks for all the answers. In regard to turn angle, more is better! (wishful thinking) I know the angle is limited with dogbones and shaft size but have you tried running a longer pin? Space permitting of course. Try a larger outer diameter cup with longer slots, same ball end size on the dogbone and a longer pin.

I modded a bruiser axle along time ago with 12mm pins and was able to get almost 40* out of it. Wasn't very durable but it could be done with better materials. Mind you, there was ALOT of modification to everything. Custom stub shafts with bigger/deeper cups, steeper angle taper on the inside, were the key. Stock shaft material was my weak link.



.... How about CVD's

[Fracture]

I will see what I can do.

[chino63]

I know 35* is more than adequate for scalers. I was just being greedy.

[4RunnerKid]

as i said before, those look AMAZING.

i'm guessing a link setup of some sort (3-link front/dual-triangulated 4-link rear ) will be in the works at some point?

any plans for a solid, center rear axle?

TLTs will do for now... but these will have to go in once they are available.

[wally187]

they look great guys. i will be buying a set!!!

[Fracture]

Originally Posted by 4RunnerKid

as i said before, those look AMAZING.

i'm guessing a link setup of some sort (3-link front/dual-triangulated 4-link rear ) will be in the works at some point?

any plans for a solid, center rear axle?

TLTs will do for now... but these will have to go in once they are available.

rear axle and 4-link is in the works, I have also done very little work on the internals for these axles, been busy.

Does anyone significantly object to 35 degrees? cause I cant really get any more without the stub axle/cup becoming a weak point.

[Fracture]

Hows this for an updated leaf mount? chamfered edges, leaf spring hole and a mounting point that lets you stick shocks on the outside, and something of your own choice on the inside Maybe a 2-link anti wrap bar or something?


is it scale enough? cause its definitely functional.

[chino63]

Looks good to me.

[Fracture]

cool,

Now to space them out, can someone measure the tlt axle leaf spring spacing? (center to center) or suggest an alternative?

Personally I would have the rear spring mounts further apart, do people want them the same spread as the fronts?

Thanks

-edit-

bunged them on for a render, I want to get the front springs closer together, think I will move the pumpkin further to the center.

thats the sorta size tire one might run on a lowered highlift, those rims are quite offset though, hence the slightly wideness.

I quite like having the shocks mounted there, means they dont rub anything.