Rules, Issues and Public Concerns

[rock hard]

Originally Posted by Chaotic Crawlers

I feel that it's hard to speak out in these matters without people over reacting.

Maybe larger topics that are be being discussed/voted on should probably be made public.
(maybe a locked thread with a poll to keep the drama to a minimum?)

Some people freak out simply due to being in the dark of what's really going on

"Communication is key!!"

[Duuuuuuuude]

Originally Posted by mindless

Now one other thing that has always pushed my buttons but im sure other love is that every comp i have ever gone to has only teched wheel base. Now thats great keeps it easy but there are other rules, again local short track racing weekly a different thing is teched that isnt said until time for tech. Easily this can be done, after all we have all these rules and have really never seen any implied. I know for a fact some big name, ill say parts do not meet specs as per the rules and am not really sure how they slide by. This isnt a pushing the limit but completely in violation. Not really sure how something like this happens.

This is just my $.02 i just see so much craziness with the rules committee and what not i figured i would chime in with my point of view.

Because local clubs are not required to use USRCCA rules and can allow anything they want to. If letting certain things slide means that they'll get more people out to run, then more power to them. As long as they aren't planning on running a regional or national comp, there is no harm.

I've never been officially tech'd at any comp I've ever been to. That doesn't mean that the comp organizers weren't eyeballing my rig though.

[mindless]

Originally Posted by Duuuuuuuude

Because local clubs are not required to use USRCCA rules and can allow anything they want to. If letting certain things slide means that they'll get more people out to run, then more power to them. As long as they aren't planning on running a regional or national comp, there is no harm.

I've never been officially tech'd at any comp I've ever been to. That doesn't mean that the comp organizers weren't eyeballing my rig though.

I was actually referring to national level comps sorry for not saying that. I understand the local level comps being easy on rules.

[ROCKEDUP RICKY]

Originally Posted by Duuuuuuuude

I've never been officially tech'd at any comp I've ever been to. That doesn't mean that the comp organizers weren't eyeballing my rig though.

I always teched your rig when you weren't looking, that way if you were out of spec I could stop you in the middle of a good run and tech you. But you were always on it.

[Red Rockcrawler]

Sounds like the rules reps for certain clubs are not talking to their local clubs enough about what everyone's opinions are on up coming rule changes.

[baddman]

it's a two way street on talking. I know when questions arise and need comment from others in a club I ask the club and so should others.

[Red Rockcrawler]

Originally Posted by baddman

it's a two way street on talking. I know when questions arise and need comment from others in a club I ask the club and so should others.

Yep Jim you have been good about asking us are opinion.

[baddman]

Originally Posted by Red Rockcrawler

Yep Jim you have been good about asking us are opinion.

Thanks Cory!

[The Violator]

I think most clubs would like less rules, not more. Less rules, less tech, more fun. I have not been to one of Parkers recent events, but I know his older ones were a blast. Maybe adding more rules is not what this group needs if it wants to prosper. Simplifying things, and allowing more creativity would do more good for crawling as a whole VS allowing bodies to be cut even more.

I think a minimum size is all that is needed. It can look like whatever it is the builder desires. There is no need for pages of rules when it comes to dimensions. I would love tech to be this. Is the wheelbase 12.5" or less? Does it steer from one axle only? It runs.


Really, was the intent of a bodied rig to look like this. (not calling out Joel, but using it for an example)







If that flys, then why not true bodiless cars.

[team3six]

Look at what your saying and think about why things are the way they are.
It doesnt take a genius to figure out that part of the problems are the ones who dont run the rules and speak out.

NFL: teams across the NFL are playing the same rules in all their states so there are one set of rules that apply to all teams nationally.
In the end several victors are choosen to compete against eachother until there is one victor. These events are covered year long and funded primarily by sponsors and an audience base.
And because of the long term stability, it has grown.

USRCCA: groups of people across the USRCCA are competing whatever rules they want to run in their own organization and not enforcing them or electing a cabinet member to speak for them on behalf of the national rules that they dont run. Then complain about why they dont run the rules, compain about not having a proper represanative or not knowing who it is, then elect victors who ran all year on thier own rules without being teched properly, only to bitch about why the rules are not simpler to allow them to be more fun on one rnd- and why the rules are not enforced strongly to keep cheating down on the other end.
Meanwhile everyone else who sponsors or funds these events are saying. Pffft, screw this!

You want the rules to work?
You want to have more psrtisipation?
You want more Sponsor partisipation?
You want less problems at a national level?

1. Split the US into zones
2. Elect one member of your club to represent your club as president and elect one vice president.
3. Presidents vote for 2 represanatives to be the voice in thier zone
4. A president, a comptroller, and a treasurer are elected to run USRCCA
5. Work on rules
6. Represanatives can Discuss rules in each forum of that zone with members
7. Rules are voted on
8. EVERY club runs the rules and is teched properly
So respecably a driver can be awarded champion of that club to go to nationals

Now you have stability, rules that are governed, and reps that express concerns
And guess what follows next girls?
Thats right, partisipation from Sponsors to fund your events because there is stability and growth. More members wanting to get involved because there is stability and growth.

Who the fawk wants to support mayhem and at this point if that is all your breeding!
You have the blueprints in front of you, how you respect the players involved is your choice.

But do not confuse Fun Crawls vs. Competition Crawls
You want to have GTGs then do it and enjoy doing it.
You want to have Competitions, then get you shit together and start thinking of the big picture. The end result, the longevity of the sport, introducing new drivers into the sport.

Since the begining of man, structure and a governing set of laws creates growth in a civilizations
Chaos breeds hate and destruction, including when there is no sense of rule or control.

You can choose now how this plays out before its too late.

[binaryterror]

Originally Posted by The Violator

I think most clubs would like less rules, not more. Less rules, less tech, more fun.

Those are GTGs, not USRCCA comps. Hell they shouldn't even be USRCCA level qualifying comps then if they are not following the rules.

I think a minimum size is all that is needed. It can look like whatever it is the builder desires. There is no need for pages of rules when it comes to dimensions. I would love tech to be this. Is the wheelbase 12.5" or less? Does it steer from one axle only? It runs.

Less rules won't help, it will hurt the future. Look at a successful Racing or RC Racing rule book, its not 3 rules. You might hate Roar, Nascar, FIA - but those organizations have members, and continue to grow. Something this hobby has not done. All we did was boom the Comp side, then burn out those who comped and they left for Scaling.

Originally Posted by team3six

Look at what your saying and think about why things are the way they are.
It doesnt take a genius to figure out that part of the problems are the ones who dont run the rules and speak out.

NFL: teams across the NFL are playing the same rules in all their states so there are one set of rules that apply to all teams nationally.
In the end several victors are choosen to compete against eachother until there is one victor. These events are covered year long and funded primarily by sponsors and an audience base.
And because of the long term stability, it has grown.

USRCCA: groups of people across the USRCCA are competing whatever rules they want to run in their own organization and not enforcing them or electing a cabinet member to speak for them on behalf of the national rules that they dont run. Then complain about why they dont run the rules, compain about not having a proper represanative or not knowing who it is, then elect victors who ran all year on thier own rules without being teched properly, only to bitch about why the rules are not simpler to allow them to be more fun on one rnd- and why the rules are not enforced strongly to keep cheating down on the other end.
Meanwhile everyone else who sponsors or funds these events are saying. Pffft, screw this!

You want the rules to work?
You want to have more psrtisipation?
You want more Sponsor partisipation?
You want less problems at a national level?

1. Split the US into zones
2. Elect one member of your club to represent your club as president and elect one vice president.
3. Presidents vote for 2 represanatives to be the voice in thier zone
4. A president, a comptroller, and a treasurer are elected to run USRCCA
5. Work on rules
6. Represanatives can Discuss rules in each forum of that zone with members
7. Rules are voted on
8. EVERY club runs the rules and is teched properly
So respecably a driver can be awarded champion of that club to go to nationals

Now you have stability, rules that are governed, and reps that express concerns
And guess what follows next girls?
Thats right, partisipation from Sponsors to fund your events because there is stability and growth. More members wanting to get involved because there is stability and growth.

Who the fawk wants to support mayhem and at this point if that is all your breeding!
You have the blueprints in front of you, how you respect the players involved is your choice.

But do not confuse Fun Crawls vs. Competition Crawls
You want to have GTGs then do it and enjoy doing it.
You want to have Competitions, then get you shit together and start thinking of the big picture. The end result, the longevity of the sport, introducing new drivers into the sport.

Since the begining of man, structure and a governing set of laws creates growth in a civilizations
Chaos breeds hate and destruction, including when there is no sense of rule or control.

You can choose now how this plays out before its too late.

This is the best post in this thread. It should be read multiple times by all rules committee members and understood. It should also be read by those in here who want fewer rules and less regulation.

Show me a single sport with a rule book that only has 1 page of rules and is a growing and prosperous group that has a future.

[Fishmaxx]

Originally Posted by team3six

1. Split the US into zones
2. Elect one member of your club to represent your club as president and elect one vice president.
3. Presidents vote for 2 represanatives to be the voice in thier zone
4. A president, a comptroller, and a treasurer are elected to run USRCCA
5. Work on rules
6. Represanatives can Discuss rules in each forum of that zone with members
7. Rules are voted on
8. EVERY club runs the rules and is teched properly
So respecably a driver can be awarded champion of that club to go to nationals

I am not trying to say anything you are saying is wrong, but its incomplete.

We in fact did most of that for the first 3 years of Rules Committee. (Except it was each clubs not regions)

The committee needs guys that can come up with ideas, write proposals, and communicate to drivers online and at National events.

A lot of the elected club guys did nothing but vote, and put all the burden of everything else on a few. We started adding guys that had proven they could do more than vote. (Remember this is a volunteer group so the work should be distributed evenly.)

There is also a learn curve to being effective Rules Committee. So there would have to be some sort of stagger when and how often new people come in.

I willing to admit to pendulum may have swung too far the other way, and its probably time to have elections again, but those being nominated need have some minimum requirements.

We also seem to get things done when people can act somewhat professional. More than once we have had guys that drove everyone else crazy (me at times) and severely effected the committees performance.

I know it would be nice if all these great ideas could happen today, but I think its logistically impossible to make this change and get the 2013 Rules out any where close to on time.

I will commit to you we will implement a lot of your ideas in 2013.

[Duuuuuuuude]

Originally Posted by binaryterror

Show me a single sport with a rule book that only has 1 page of rules and is a growing and prosperous group that has a future.

One page of rules ain't bad. The only reason it grows is because of people trying to find their way around them.

[team3six]

Well remember Fish. Eyes are on you and sadly its your shoulders that have to bear the weight.
I understand the time constraint. But, had this been nipped in the bud years ago when it reared its ugly head.
It would be a simple fix, and move on.
Now its becoming a time constraint to restore balance.
The longer this goes on, the worse it will become. That I am certain of!

I would hate to see all of what collectively as a whole we built in the crawling world tumble and go away as a distant memory.
I really dont want that by any means. For Scale or Comp Crawling!

And members of them Clubs need to put on thier big boy pants and step up.
That Club you built isnt a childhood treehouse, you have obligations to your members to help your club make it to nationals.
This includes supporting the rule set and living by how they are constructed.
Vent your complaints to your rep and wait till next years rules.
Get structured or you wont have to worry about competing at all. There will be no reason to.

same goes fot Event Organizers, do your jobs and tech the trucks correctly.
There is no excuses why you cant. If your organizing an event. Organize it!

Just food for thought.
Do you know how many people contact me yearly to help support their event with prizes each year?
And how many I turn down?
And why I turn so many down or not even respond?

I am not the only one vendor who does this either. I would love to sponsor a large event as money is not the issue.
Its the issue of supporting a group of guys who cant stick to a set if rules, who can't generate numbers in members because there is no consistancy, its sponsoring an event that has no structure or growth.

I personally deal with Vendors everyday to sponsor events. Its hard work!
But let there be no mistake in understanding that there has to be a plan, a reason, a level of respect to understand why a vendor should support anything.

If I cant give back to someone being cheritable of themselves. What is the point?
Where is the reward?

This is why I said the USRCCA needs to get together.
Because with out sponsors, without members, without support.
You got a bunch of guys building trucks with spare parts talking about the good ole days.

You got some work to do.

[JeremyH]

Originally Posted by team3six

USRCCA: groups of people across the USRCCA are competing whatever rules they want to run in their own organization and not enforcing them or electing a cabinet member to speak for them on behalf of the national rules that they dont run. Then complain about why they dont run the rules, compain about not having a proper represanative or not knowing who it is, then elect victors who ran all year on thier own rules without being teched properly, only to bitch about why the rules are not simpler to allow them to be more fun on one rnd- and why the rules are not enforced strongly to keep cheating down on the other end.

I don't know about other states, but in Texas, since we have multiple clubs and are required to have an annual crawloff, we put together a set of rules outlining what is required of each club to participate in the state finals. Running a minimum of 4 USRCCA comps (using the rules written by USRCCA) per class is required. When our state finals rolls around, we tech trucks according the the current USRCCA rules.

We also chose our current state RC rep as a group. He was not appointed by anyone except those in this state.

[team3six]

Originally Posted by Duuuuuuuude

One page of rules ain't bad. The only reason it grows is because of people trying to find their way around them.

so which is then?, should we add another class and extend the rules for SORRCA rules or should we lessen the USRCCA rules in hopes that the rules wont be bent?

I mean its funny how you respond depending on which side of the fence your on.

People will ALWAYS look for holes in rules.
Thats why there are articles and articles of sublaws attached to laws.

You know shooting someone is wrong, but I am sure if you understand the sublaws involved in shooting, you know what deserves a just shooting and what justifies a punishment.

How about this, if you want to be taken seriously (and this is not directed to just you) as a competitor, then please run the rules listed by SORRCA in all your clubs events and guide your club to Nationals.
If you dont like the SORRCA rules, dont run them! run with you buddies in GTGs having fun with no other expectation but to have fun. and dont expect anything in return or worry about how the SORRCA rules are written.

Fun is fun, comp is comp.
Simple reality of why there are rules for competing.

[team3six]

Originally Posted by JeremyH

I don't know about other states, but in Texas, since we have multiple clubs and are required to have an annual crawloff, we put together a set of rules outlining what is required of each club to participate in the state finals. Running a minimum of 4 USRCCA comps (using the rules written by USRCCA) per class is required. When our state finals rolls around, we tech trucks according the the current USRCCA rules.

We also chose our current state RC rep as a group. He was not appointed by anyone except those in this state.

Jeremy, that is your state and your clubs. But how many clubs are in your state?
I would be willing to bet not every state does what your state is trying to do. Please understand, I am basing this off your statrment.

As a matter of a fact, I know that not every club or state does this.

But Seriously, Good for you if you guys are not part of the problem.
It should be that way.

But you slso shouldnt confuse your area to others. This is not an I problem, this is a We problem.

Dont believe me, see what happens in less than a year without fixing it.

[Fishmaxx]

Originally Posted by team3six

Well remember Fish. Eyes are on you and sadly its your shoulders that have to bear the weight.
I understand the time constraint. But, had this been nipped in the bud years ago when it reared its ugly head.
It would be a simple fix, and move on.
Now its becoming a time constraint to restore balance.
The longer this goes on, the worse it will become. That I am certain of!

I hear ya, and all I can say is we are working on it.

[articzap]

Some states don't even have a sanctioned club, unfortunately.

[BC-Brian]

I run Boston Cralers with Der Kampfer (his RCC handle). This spring will mark our third Nationals qualifier. While there is another club in the region they choose not to participate, but we run everything to the USRCCA specs. We also run the events to mimick last years nationals in an effort to prepare our members for what they will be up against .

If there is anything we can do to help up in the New England area let us know.