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Old 07-30-2016, 11:05 AM   #41
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Default Re: 2017 .... its coming and we need growth

What I always laugh at is thoughts like these....Reason is simple..... It's called terrain !
What floats or grows on the Left Coast..... Doesn't exist in the Deep South .... Rocks ?? , yeah they dig them up here and truck them in.
Now mud and muck in the swamp ??? Yup that's a different world out here.
I personally love watching and scratch building styrene rigs, but the damage is horrific.....
Lexan lasts..... Trail racing here is totally different, not better or worse, just totally different.
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Old 07-30-2016, 11:08 AM   #42
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Default Re: 2017 .... its coming and we need growth

And that's why I like the distinction between 2.2s and Sporty. Leave 2.2 Shafty alone but bring Sportsman along. This would require nothing more than the willingness to build a Sporty Capable Scaler, and showing up to challenge those that want a more performance oriented vehicle.

Something like this:



Will this truck win against a full blown 2.2s rig? I doubt it, but who cares? I'd rather watch video of this truck making gates than something that looks like a walnut shell turning giant doughnuts.

Last edited by C*H*U*D; 07-30-2016 at 11:13 AM.
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Old 07-30-2016, 11:09 AM   #43
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Hey everybody! I just wanted to chime in here as a scale-trailer that has never been to a comp... I am totally willing to spend the money for a good 2.2S rig, but there just aren't any comps local enough to me. I think it would be helpful if some of the larger clubs or whathaveyou hold smaller events across a wider area. My "local" club always meets about 100 miles from where I live and I just can't drive out there to see what's up. The only meets they have seem to be championship or National ranking events, but they never hold just a local weekend GTG for new people to go check out the competitive side of crawling.

Basically, in addition to large, competitive events, there need to be smaller events across a more diverse area to get people out to see what a comp looks like, or to draw them in to club events before large competitions.
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Old 07-30-2016, 12:00 PM   #44
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Default Re: 2017 .... its coming and we need growth

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Originally Posted by C*H*U*D View Post
And that's why I like the distinction between 2.2s and Sporty. Leave 2.2 Shafty alone but bring Sportsman along. This would require nothing more than the willingness to build a Sporty Capable Scaler, and showing up to challenge those that want a more performance oriented vehicle.

Something like this:



Will this truck win against a full blown 2.2s rig? I doubt it, but who cares? I'd rather watch video of this truck making gates than something that looks like a walnut shell turning giant doughnuts.

So something along the lines of a current 2.2s but with a fair resemblance to a 1:1 with a scale type tire?

This is my crawler. It is fully 2.2s legal.




I've swapped the sx's out for some beat up boss claws since I wanted to be capable. the tires being limited to a scale type will really limit the capabilities of the rig compared to a real crawler tire for sure. I don't see that as an issue since the whole class is running them.
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Old 07-30-2016, 12:10 PM   #45
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the tires being limited to a scale type will really limit the capabilities of the rig compared to a real crawler tire for sure. I don't see that as an issue since the whole class is running them.
I think scale tires plays a big part in recognizing these vehicles as trucks. Scale tires used to suck, but the current stable of tires available now are actually quite capable.

Ok, I'm off to build a Sporty
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Old 07-30-2016, 12:28 PM   #46
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Are sx's and bfg's capable compared to mobs and mashers? Absolutely. Are they capable compared to beat up old pins? Sorta. They are pretty close until the terrain goes vertical then the scale tires just spin while the pins keep going.

I've ran the hell out the sx's and bfg's trying different foam setups, wheel widths etc. The first run on pins I giggled like a school girl and walked every single obstacle I'd fought on scale tires.


I love the concept and I'll compete in a class like that especially if I can run the same rig in 2 classes with only a tire and body swap.

Last edited by WHITE-TRASH; 07-30-2016 at 12:44 PM.
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Old 07-30-2016, 01:04 PM   #47
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M_energy took 3rd in 2.2s at ECC running BFGs allday. I'm just saying.

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Old 07-30-2016, 02:15 PM   #48
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I love the concept and I'll compete in a class like that especially if I can run the same rig in 2 classes with only a tire and body swap.
That's it! What would (don't take this wrong) it take to attract drivers like yourself to more comps of the 2.2 competition style trucks? But also help keep the truck in the 2.2 comp style vehicle is I guess what Im always looking at.


What/how would you do the class? How would you set it up or try to keep it in original spirit of Sporty and still be in tech with Shafty so drivers could run both?

What would you do for courses? I mean would you be looking for that scale/woodsy/muddy feel that maybe the scale guys like? Or would you try to keep it more along the lines of shafty course styles now?
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Old 07-30-2016, 02:16 PM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by C*H*U*D View Post
And that's why I like the distinction between 2.2s and Sporty. Leave 2.2 Shafty alone but bring Sportsman along. This would require nothing more than the willingness to build a Sporty Capable Scaler, and showing up to challenge those that want a more performance oriented vehicle.



Something like this:







Will this truck win against a full blown 2.2s rig? I doubt it, but who cares? I'd rather watch video of this truck making gates than something that looks like a walnut shell turning giant doughnuts.


GMade R1...... Just finishing one, just a fun platform !
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Old 07-30-2016, 03:57 PM   #50
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That's it! What would (don't take this wrong) it take to attract drivers like yourself to more comps of the 2.2 competition style trucks? But also help keep the truck in the 2.2 comp style vehicle is I guess what Im always looking at.


What/how would you do the class? How would you set it up or try to keep it in original spirit of Sporty and still be in tech with Shafty so drivers could run both?

What would you do for courses? I mean would you be looking for that scale/woodsy/muddy feel that maybe the scale guys like? Or would you try to keep it more along the lines of shafty course styles now?
Just remember that you asked the questions.


Let's call the current "sporty" class 2.2s and this theoretical scalesque group class 4 or c4 just to keep things straight as my rambling tends to wander around a bit.


For c4 I'd keep the current 2.2s rules for wheelbase and width. Those dimensions are fine and there are a whole lot 1:10 of bodies that fit that wheelbase already on the market. Make a minimum width for the body say 7" and length at least 12.5" if not around 15" to keep the scale feel and look about the rig.

None, not 1 single point for having a doll behind the wheel, 253 pieces of camping gear, propane tank, tent, bed roll, winch, spare tire etc. If you want that stuff go enter a full on scale comp. I see no reason to compromise performance in the pursuit of scale perfection. If you want to zip tie 38 pieces of flair to your rig and shove a doll behind the wheel then more power to you but your not gaining anything by doing it.

C4 courses would be a mix of current 2.2s courses and a bypass for the stuff they just cannot do due to tires or body weight or width being a hindrance. Points can stay the same but why not remove the launch through a gate fish flop back onto your wheels that is in place now? I don't think it fits the class very well and it makes you drive not just cycle the throttle till you drive away.

No woodsy travel, no bridges, no mud pit because again, this ain't a scale comp. There are already thousands of trail comps to choose from, go find one that suits you.


A 3s limit was brought up earlier and I support it for this new class. It will allow more rtr electronics to be used so newbies won't have to run out and spend money to keep up. The same electronics used in 2.2s can run 3 or 4s without issue so it's just a battery change for me.

I like the idea of a novice type class as well as an expert type division. Lets say novice runs no knuckle weight and expert is allowed knuckle weight. That one feature alone is a huge performance advantage and it will quickly separate what's what.
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Old 07-30-2016, 04:05 PM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by micro racer View Post
Hey everybody! I just wanted to chime in here as a scale-trailer that has never been to a comp... I am totally willing to spend the money for a good 2.2S rig, but there just aren't any comps local enough to me. I think it would be helpful if some of the larger clubs or whathaveyou hold smaller events across a wider area. My "local" club always meets about 100 miles from where I live and I just can't drive out there to see what's up. The only meets they have seem to be championship or National ranking events, but they never hold just a local weekend GTG for new people to go check out the competitive side of crawling.

Basically, in addition to large, competitive events, there need to be smaller events across a more diverse area to get people out to see what a comp looks like, or to draw them in to club events before large competitions.
Are you talking about BLC (Border Line Crawlers)? Im pretty sure they hold an event somewhere near sandiego at lwast twice during their crawling season. SkaldidDog one of the main guys in that clubs lives not far from SD too.
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Old 07-30-2016, 08:05 PM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by micro racer View Post
Hey everybody! I just wanted to chime in here as a scale-trailer that has never been to a comp... I am totally willing to spend the money for a good 2.2S rig, but there just aren't any comps local enough to me. I think it would be helpful if some of the larger clubs or whathaveyou hold smaller events across a wider area. My "local" club always meets about 100 miles from where I live and I just can't drive out there to see what's up. The only meets they have seem to be championship or National ranking events, but they never hold just a local weekend GTG for new people to go check out the competitive side of crawling.

Basically, in addition to large, competitive events, there need to be smaller events across a more diverse area to get people out to see what a comp looks like, or to draw them in to club events before large competitions.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Curcal View Post
Are you talking about BLC (Border Line Crawlers)? Im pretty sure they hold an event somewhere near sandiego at lwast twice during their crawling season. SkaldidDog one of the main guys in that clubs lives not far from SD too.
If it's BLC we just today had a scale/RWYB comp in forest falls ca. Today... purpose behind this is for the new/scale guy to try out comp style courses. I know it's still a drive from SD.. however we held 3 or 4 comps down that way last season.. they were club level comps. unfortunately there's only 1 club holding true 2.2M and 2.2s comps in southern California and we have drivers spread out from Apple valley down to San Diego... we all have to travel to enjoy our comp rigs..
All are always welcome to come on out to compete or watch. I'll even let you run a course with a 2.2m or a 2.2s rig but you need to show up..

Not to mention the best rock in So cal is in the high desert..

Last edited by tapped-out; 07-30-2016 at 08:15 PM.
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Old 07-31-2016, 05:09 AM   #53
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M_energy took 3rd in 2.2s at ECC running BFGs allday. I'm just saying.


I tried to make them work I really did. I have always been a fan of the 1:1 krawlers so when they came out in 2.2 I bought a set.

The tires were annoying because they'd sit and spin and not do a line then they'd turn around and do something amazing. I grooved them and it really didn't seem to have any effect. I'm seriously considering getting a jug of vht traction compound to try softening them up.







I thought of another easy way to separate novice C4 from expert. Tire grooving.
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Old 07-31-2016, 07:37 AM   #54
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My thinking is its the mindset that some people may see as 'to win I have to have carbon fiber, glued together tires and every light weight thing they make'

Take away the 150$ custom tires and some may see it as 150$ more they could spend on axle parts or transmissions. The mind set they wont win unless they have them.

The weight minimum may lower it a little when you look at things like links. You buy 4 lowers in Vp and its over $30 in Ti to go on the cheaper side. A driver could buy Traxxas stainless for 10$ off ebay. Between uppers and lowers they could be looking at a $40+ savings just on links.

Group it together with other stuff and you could drop a truck price 100$ ....

Agree G10 vs CF may not save as much, that area depends on vendor pricing too. I know if I switched the un-Stuck to G10 I wouldn't see a price drop. Theres more time and dollars wrapped up in the skids and hardware then there is cf material. Again this is just to help save them money and maybe even a vendor getting a sale they might have lost because of CF pricing.

In my mind we also have to think big picture, 2 years - 3 years - 4 years down the road. That dad who buys his kid a crawler and shows up to compete. Yes skill will beat the rookie but the father may see it as he needs to buy what now?

I think sometimes we forget about the younger crowd we could be cultivating and think too many times its adults with jobs and credit cards driving these things.

The RWYB sounds good to get those backyard guys out and meeting club members, seeing what its all about. If its working for your club that's great.
So maybe make a stock-crawling class. You can change the steering servo, you can install steel gears and metal steering links if your truck doesn't come with them, you can use factory-option tires (but no aftermarket tires), you can use bushings instead of bearings if you want, you can stick steel weights wherever you want, and you can rearrange parts like mirroring transmission cases and relocating battery boxes as long as it can be done without cutting anything, but everything else must be box-stock. No sensored brushless motor, no BEC, no Currie axles, no dig or multi-gear transmission, no remote-locking diffs, no winch. Except for the most basic durability upgrades, the only mods allowed are those that require ingenuity and a screwdriver, instead of piles of money.

Last edited by fyrstormer; 07-31-2016 at 07:39 AM.
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Old 07-31-2016, 11:38 PM   #55
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So, what chassis are you starting out with in this scenario, fyrstormer?
Allowing an external BEC will help save money in the long run, IMO.
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Old 08-01-2016, 05:22 AM   #56
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So maybe make a stock-crawling class. You can change the steering servo, you can install steel gears and metal steering links if your truck doesn't come with them, you can use factory-option tires (but no aftermarket tires), you can use bushings instead of bearings if you want, you can stick steel weights wherever you want, and you can rearrange parts like mirroring transmission cases and relocating battery boxes as long as it can be done without cutting anything, but everything else must be box-stock. No sensored brushless motor, no BEC, no Currie axles, no dig or multi-gear transmission, no remote-locking diffs, no winch. Except for the most basic durability upgrades, the only mods allowed are those that require ingenuity and a screwdriver, instead of piles of money.

I geared up to promote a stockish class for 2016 locally, failed on follow through. The ground work was laid to tweak if someone wanted to take the ball and roll with it.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1...RjRewXPyQ/edit


But in this hobby drivers still like to build so its not really a direction I personally think would help.
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Old 08-01-2016, 05:49 AM   #57
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I geared up to promote a stockish class for 2016 locally, failed on follow through. The ground work was laid to tweak if someone wanted to take the ball and roll with it.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1...RjRewXPyQ/edit


But in this hobby drivers still like to build so its not really a direction I personally think would help.

A class that locked down would probably get repeat drivers twice before they started in with modifications that forced them out of the class. Human nature would be working against you.

I think a class locked down in certain areas but open in most would do well. I wonder about how to include wraith into the mix would work, there are certainly enough of them out in circulation. Same with bombers, not everyone builds them for U4.
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Old 08-01-2016, 06:22 AM   #58
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A class that locked down would probably get repeat drivers twice before they started in with modifications that forced them out of the class. Human nature would be working against you.
Yup exactly. I was looking at it as an attraction for the hobby store guys buying LNC's or the Chinese knock offs.

Almost like a 'Try before you really buy in' attempt at new drivers.
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Old 08-01-2016, 06:53 AM   #59
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Yup exactly. I was looking at it as an attraction for the hobby store guys buying LNC's or the Chinese knock offs.

Almost like a 'Try before you really buy in' attempt at new drivers.
I think a rental/loaner program would fit the bill. Rock crawling demo's at offroad races to gain attention to this end of the hobby and rigs with weak servos and slipper clutches.
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Old 08-01-2016, 08:16 AM   #60
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Grave Digger class

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