2017 .... its coming and we need growth

[tapped-out]

Wouldn't it be simple enough to leave rules/classes as is just have a "novice" class...
I would think keeping all 2.2S (pro) and 2.2S (novice) drivers competing on same course together. (don't think any mentioned separate courses)
So a novice driver can see how it's done and learn better lines.

All that needs done is when it's said drivers turn to drive. Driver tells judge i'm 2.2S novice class or I'm 2.2S pro class.

This way only Novice drivers compete against each other and pro against each other.
A driver can only drive in one class...

Myself I've comp for yrs and never won a big event under talked about structure I can drive novice class.... but my driving skills aren't novice class.
Nor would I drop down to novice just to take a 1st place.... I'd rather be beat by the best trying my best to win....

[CM9000]

I wish there was a points series for crawling... I wouldn't miss a single one.

"I don't race to win, I come here to have fun"

one event a year thats close to me sucks to miss it.

but hey a point series... im in. and im willing to bet everybody else would be in too. 1 rwyb before and after the series. and in the middle of the series do a gtg. < the more fun put in the more it grows. put it out on all the medias and such.

[BC-Brian]

Originally Posted by tapped-out

Wouldn't it be simple enough to leave rules/classes as is just have a "novice" class...
I would think keeping all 2.2S (pro) and 2.2S (novice) drivers competing on same course together. (don't think any mentioned separate courses)
So a novice driver can see how it's done and learn better lines.

All that needs done is when it's said drivers turn to drive. Driver tells judge i'm 2.2S novice class or I'm 2.2S pro class.

This way only Novice drivers compete against each other and pro against each other.
A driver can only drive in one class...

Myself I've comp for yrs and never won a big event under talked about structure I can drive novice class.... but my driving skills aren't novice class.
Nor would I drop down to novice just to take a 1st place.... I'd rather be beat by the best trying my best to win....

This is an option. The benefit of altering the rules for a novice class is to reduce the cost of entry. It also reduces the complexity of entry.

5lb + rig
No Cut and Shuts

Get a rig, doesn't matter what chassis or axles, buyo some Rovers, pins, Etc.

If it comes in light add some weight. The 5lb rule helps to close the performance gap between a brand new CF chassis vs G10, or Aluminum, or some other material. Same is true for $100+ carbon fiber wheels vs Aluminum beadlocks that can be found for $40.

[WHITE-TRASH]

Originally Posted by Robbob

??? Points series, like the old Championship they use to do? Something like that could work too. And be a nice way to recognize drivers too?

Is there not already a point system? How are championships calculated if there is not?


I envision something simple like;

1st = 10 points
2nd = 8 points
3rd = 6 points
4th = 4 points
5th = 2 points
6th and below 1 point

If you rack up 15 points in the last 3 consecutive previous events you move up. I think a simple sliding window would help offset something like that one event where only 2 novice show up so Mr 4th place defaults to 2nd and is forced to move up but only for one event rather than the rest of the season.



These days my driving time is limited so being able to run the sportsman and 2.2s with just a few swapped parts would be fantastic. I'll take all the time I can get.

[CM9000]

Originally Posted by toyofast

Most parents that are not into RC's will not want to fund a $500-$1000 "toy" for their kid to drive. I know I had a hard enough time getting my father to purchase a new $20 stock motor for me once a year so I could race back in the late 80's. Sure the parents(fathers) that are currently involved in RC crawling wouldn't care about blowing $120 for new tires and beadlocks for their "toy". I could not see a non-rc'ing parent spending that much money for tires/wheels when they all serve the same purpose.

I know that once my son can do more than turn the steering wheel on my radio, he'll have his own crawler....

Originally Posted by JIA's Dad

Have you checked out the prices of the new games they play setting at a computer or in front of a TV. Getting into RC gets them outside and being active and social. Becoming part of a club or just participating in a family event.

Greg, Once again you make my point. Finishing 5th does not qualify Dean for the Nationals. Yet it would be great to see him compete against Brittany from WA. These kids are the type of children I am talking about. They do well but get no rewards.

the non rc parent and kids these days wont dabble into our hobby.

ive quoted this stuff up here from a post in chit chat about growth.

noners (airforce term) don't want anything to do with what we do cause they only see price tags. no matter how much it costs.

I just came to realize this... once I seen the first artr ax10 in orange my dad had to pry me out of the hobbyshop. kids nowadays are on their phone or the computer most of the time...

maybe.. to get the hobby to grow.. we can put it where they see it. start at the malls where all the people are.

I know.. sounds dumb.. but it might work in a few areas.

second.. start a rock course at the local hobby shops.

im not trying to derive from the topic.. but I don't think we need a new class.

maybe just better advertising. to at least keep who we already have interested in and not leave. more comps more places. not everybody got the time or money to fly or drive across the states.

if facebook didn't exist.. I bet there would be more comps posted in the regional section.

this is my last 2 cents for today...

[Robbob]

Originally Posted by tapped-out

Wouldn't it be simple enough to leave rules/classes as is just have a "novice" class...
I would think keeping all 2.2S (pro) and 2.2S (novice) drivers competing on same course together. (don't think any mentioned separate courses)
So a novice driver can see how it's done and learn better lines.

All that needs done is when it's said drivers turn to drive. Driver tells judge i'm 2.2S novice class or I'm 2.2S pro class.

This way only Novice drivers compete against each other and pro against each other.
A driver can only drive in one class...

Myself I've comp for yrs and never won a big event under talked about structure I can drive novice class.... but my driving skills aren't novice class.
Nor would I drop down to novice just to take a 1st place.... I'd rather be beat by the best trying my best to win....

Originally Posted by BC-Brian

This is an option. The benefit of altering the rules for a novice class is to reduce the cost of entry. It also reduces the complexity of entry.

5lb + rig
No Cut and Shuts

Get a rig, doesn't matter what chassis or axles, buyo some Rovers, pins, Etc.

If it comes in light add some weight. The 5lb rule helps to close the performance gap between a brand new CF chassis vs G10, or Aluminum, or some other material. Same is true for $100+ carbon fiber wheels vs Aluminum beadlocks that can be found for $40.

[BC-Brian]

Originally Posted by CM9000

maybe.. to get the hobby to grow.. we can put it where they see it. start at the malls where all the people are.

I know.. sounds dumb.. but it might work in a few areas.

second.. start a rock course at the local hobby shops.

im not trying to derive from the topic.. but I don't think we need a new class.

maybe just better advertising. to at least keep who we already have interested in and not leave. more comps more places. not everybody got the time or money to fly or drive across the states.

if facebook didn't exist.. I bet there would be more comps posted in the regional section.

this is my last 2 cents for today...

It's possible but a lot of what I am seeing at our club is someone comes one or two times and then we never see them again. I am not sure how we get that person interested enough to keep coming back but telling them to go spend a Grand on a rig is not working. We have tried the run what you brung classes, making courses easier, using loaner rigs, etc.

I am not sure a new level will help but we need to solve the problem of how do you keep someone who is already interested.... interested, before we try to figure out how to draw in new people that don't even have interest as a starting point.

[Robbob]

Originally Posted by CM9000

the non rc parent and kids these days wont dabble into our hobby.

ive quoted this stuff up here from a post in chit chat about growth.

noners (airforce term) don't want anything to do with what we do cause they only see price tags. no matter how much it costs.

I just came to realize this... once I seen the first artr ax10 in orange my dad had to pry me out of the hobbyshop. kids nowadays are on their phone or the computer most of the time...

maybe.. to get the hobby to grow.. we can put it where they see it. start at the malls where all the people are.

I know.. sounds dumb.. but it might work in a few areas.

second.. start a rock course at the local hobby shops.

im not trying to derive from the topic.. but I don't think we need a new class.

maybe just better advertising. to at least keep who we already have interested in and not leave. more comps more places. not everybody got the time or money to fly or drive across the states.

if facebook didn't exist.. I bet there would be more comps posted in the regional section.

this is my last 2 cents for today...

Def another area of the hobby that could use a boost but one hurdle at a time maybe lol. I got a good example I think that gos with what youre saying and what I believe.

Years ago CT's local hooby shop put in an indoor rock course. We used it for years in a winter series and local guys even had their own thing going during the week. We couldn't get the weekly guys to come out with us during the summer time.

I talked with them all for years about reasons and for the most part the general answers was 'im not good enough' or 'my truck isn't close to what they run'. But yet on a weekly basis every week they as a group of 8-12 drivers would get together and compete against each other in what they felt was a more laid back loose atmosphere of competition.

What if we, then, had separated them in our season points or events and scored them against each other? Could we have grown some into quality drivers competing in our pro level or even 2.2M? Could we have grown the clubs local attendance to a steady constant number every event?

What if they had the choice?

[CM9000]

to keep that 2 timer in... it takes a bit much but it shouldn't be like this... door prizes. and awards for top 5. thats the only thing keeping the novice class at Washtenaw rc raceway. shouldn't be that way but it is.

one day I dream there are rock courses everywhere and people there everyday on the rocks getting wheel time in.. but its not gonna happen. I get what rob and you (brian) are saying. and I do agree. im just trying to help figure the problem out. this tires on rocks thing is what got me in and I wanna stick to my roots and bring it back.

as far as my area goes.. I think its time to start my own hobbyshop in 3 years. rock courses and a 1:10 track maybe. rock courses for sure.

[BC-Brian]

Originally Posted by CM9000

to keep that 2 timer in... it takes a bit much but it shouldn't be like this... door prizes. and awards for top 5. thats the only thing keeping the novice class at Washtenaw rc raceway. shouldn't be that way but it is.

one day I dream there are rock courses everywhere and people there everyday on the rocks getting wheel time in.. but its not gonna happen. I get what rob and you (brian) are saying. and I do agree. im just trying to help figure the problem out. this tires on rocks thing is what got me in and I wanna stick to my roots and bring it back.

as far as my area goes.. I think its time to start my own hobbyshop in 3 years. rock courses and a 1:10 track maybe. rock courses for sure.

Maybe a path worth exploring is seeing if there is any way to expose some of hte U4 Rock Race guys to Rock Crawling. This Class is getting HUGE up here in New England and every hobby shop appears to have a rock race track now.

Maybe keep an eye out for larger U4 races and talk to the shop about coordinating an expositional Rock Crawling event with a few club drivers to show up with shafties and lend them out.

[CM9000]

Originally Posted by BC-Brian

Maybe a path worth exploring is seeing if there is any way to expose some of hte U4 Rock Race guys to Rock Crawling. This Class is getting HUGE up here in New England and every hobby shop appears to have a rock race track now.

Maybe keep an eye out for larger U4 races and talk to the shop about coordinating an expositional Rock Crawling event with a few club drivers to show up with shafties and lend them out.

like I kinda said before earlier... rc can be a bit regional...

and there isn't a single u4 track that I know of. most never heard of it.

if that's whats by you go talk to them and see if they will do that.

this year.. im just gonna bring a pile o rocks to the indoor race track in wastenaw when its time for track build. hopefully I can scoop up 15 people to crawl with on off days.


I guess we all gotta just put more effort in depending on the area we live in to get people to crawl.

[jebster]

this is a great discussion so I thought I'd throw my 2 cents worth in. I got hooked on rock crawling a number of years back. I'm not real competitive but enjoy going out to challenge myself and my rigs when I can, which isn't as often as I like.
I started with a venom creeper and connected up with a local club (bc crawlers!) via rcc. they were very supportive and kept me interested. through those early comps I learned a lot about my rig, which led to investment in upgrades and eventually adding a 2.2Pro rig to my stable so I could compete in that class for more challenges.

my observations:
1. while I don't think you have to spend a fortune to have fun this is an investment and it grows over time. upgrades, replacement for broken parts, new vehicles as you go up in classes all cost money. this could be a turnoff for some people. at a local level having club members loan out rigs (either dedicated loaners or offering up there rigs to new members) could give people more time to learn about the rigs and get hooked on the sport so they are more committed to the investment. plus they would make smarter purchases knowing what works (vs buying a shining new thing that doesn't really provide a performance advantage).
to support this loaner path having a novice rig requirement (min 5lb, no custom cut tires, etc.) would help keep cost down for everyone. I could probably put one together with spare parts laying around that others could use.

2. rock crawling has location limitations. I can take a basher/scaler/racer out in the backyard or street almost anywhere and find some terrain to have fun with it. the same is true for many other types of rc. to have fun with rock crawling you need rocks, and lots of them. not something you find everywhere. local clubs do a great job of finding spots but that can mean long drives / travel times to get to/from. this again can make it a challenge for keeping new people interested and coming back as there isn't a consistent location for them to go to. there aren't enough hobby shops around that will set up rock courses inside or on there property so that doesn't help. not sure what options we have to fix this. guess I could move to a new part of the country where crawling locations are more plentiful!

3. I know first hand the challenge of getting kids interested in rc. I started with my first hobby quality rc car (Tamiya hornet) when I was around 10 and have loved rc ever since. I have kids of similar ages now and try to get them involved. while they humor me once in awhile and go out to drive some rigs they don't get motivated they way I was. they have too many other forms of entertainment that they are more interested in. I'm sure I'm not the only one with this problem.

[Robbob]

Originally Posted by jebster

3. I know first hand the challenge of getting kids interested in rc. I started with my first hobby quality rc car (Tamiya hornet) when I was around 10 and have loved rc ever since. I have kids of similar ages now and try to get them involved. while they humor me once in awhile and go out to drive some rigs they don't get motivated they way I was. they have too many other forms of entertainment that they are more interested in. I'm sure I'm not the only one with this problem.

I was just talking with my girlfriend last night about this. My daughter is 10 is actually likes the RC's, has a Wraith - Bolink Legends - Vaterra rally - Scaler - Duratrax MOA. Shes driven them all and actually wanted to race
and crawl with me. First comp we went to she was like 7 and wanted to run her crawler with me on the course. Didn't quite understand how it all worked but she couldn't.

I think that discouraged her to wanting to crawl so this winter shes getting my un-Stuck and gonna start indoors at RC Madness. I hear ya though on having so much to electronically do these days. If she could get away with it she would Skype, text and play movie star planet all day on the computer lol.

[The Violator]

I have been out of the game for a minute, but I have thoughts:


The new rule about the rules changing the rules for the rules are what killed comp crawling.


National events will never reach the levels of 5+ years ago unless you grow it from the local club level. 14 classes, 72 weight restrictions, all screw it up. National events need tight rules. Joe six pack will not load up his RTR wraith and comp at worlds.

Set up gates, and let them run what ever they have through them. On the local level, it will get them thinking about it. Make the courses easy enough to get a wraith through them. The pro level guys should be decided by time, and bonus lines. Add several bonus gates that are brutal. Now everyone has a shot to finish a course. You will never get new people to commit to this if they cannot get through the first gate.

And loosen up with the rules.

Pro MOA 2.2 12.5" wheelbase. Two motors. Done.
Pro 2.2 shafty 12.5" wheelbase. One motor 4 pounds. Done.

A great driver like Jake would still go past me with a box stock AX10 and me running my Berg. Its about the driver.

Once there are numbers built back up on a local level then worry about national numbers. I remember National events had to be capped at 100 or 125 just to get everyone done. Now all the participants can probably ride in the same truck to the event. Everyone trying for a 1 pound MOA combined with rules for the rules killed it. Light weight costs money, and more importantly time invested to make it run. Implement a simple number, say 4 pounds, and it eliminates the need for high end parts. And the super competitive guys will still build light cars, they will just put the weight exactly where they want it.

[The Violator]

A finer point I thought of when it comes to building courses.

When a person new to crawling heads out and cannot finish even one of the courses set up, its the builders fault. When a new guy buys a short course truck he can race on the exact same track as a sponsored pro driver. They do not funnel a 20 foot wide track down to a 18" wide bridge that if you do not cross it right your car falls off the bridge and you are done.

Rock crawling courses need to be finishable ( not sure that is a word ) by 75% of the people. Then time and bonus gates can separate the pro from the newbie. As the cars became lighter, the drivers better, the courses got harder. Which is a natural progression. But then while trying to attract the new people, they saw impossible things and bought a wraith and drove for several hours on a G6 event.

I think there needs to be a reset or else this thing is done.

Maybe 10 gates all drivable and 2 "pro lines" that have 3 gates each. Then the regular people can run on the same course and feel happy for finishing some courses, the pro level guys can almost count the 10 regular gates as bonus gates, and the 2 pro lines as their personal courses. And the time limit will add to the pressure for the pro lines.

[Robbob]

Originally Posted by The Violator

Rock crawling courses need to be finishable ( not sure that is a word ) by 75% of the people. Then time and bonus gates can separate the pro from the newbie. As the cars became lighter, the drivers better, the courses got harder. Which is a natural progression. But then while trying to attract the new people, they saw impossible things and bought a wraith and drove for several hours on a G6 event.

[nappahdog]

I'm in the thought of build it and they will come, have a look at the entries for Crawlapaloosa. You might have to look on Facebook not RCC or RCORVA , the numbers are kinda crazy and they haven't even used all of the available outlets for advertising. Facebook holds the key to success in the future.

[Col_Sanders]

I have never participated in a comp of any kind. This year I plan on competing in scale and also in Sporty.

Apparently the sporty group is pretty small (I'll be #4) but the scale classes have a nice turnout. From talking to quite a few of the local guys who are into scalers, price and skill level seem to be the big reasons that they avoid the comp crawlers. They don't want to be a newb with a budget build going up against totally custom rigs and drivers with several years of experience in the class. I really don't either. I'm not so worried about my rig as much as I am about my skill level.

Having a novice class would definitely make me feel better and possibly get some more of our local guys into it. As far as other limitations, I don't know about the 5lb minimum weight...My LNC still has stock chassis and IIRC I'm just barely above 4lbs even with knuckle weights.

[nappahdog]

Come to find out it's mostly scalers at crawlapaloosa, uh oh.

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

[roksloski]

Originally Posted by The Violator

And loosen up with the rules.

Pro MOA 2.2 12.5" wheelbase. Two motors. Done.
Pro 2.2 shafty 12.5" wheelbase. One motor 4 pounds. Done.

.