Common Rule Myths and Mistakes

[Fishmaxx]

Originally Posted by Mic

Here it goes: Driver gets front wheels all the way though the gate and is attempting to clear the gate with the rear wheels. Rear axle drops in a crack and causes the truck, to twist backwards/sideways and front left wheel now floats backwards over the gate . ( No touch no straddle on the front wheels which have already cleared the gate) driver continues to drive forward ( never a reverse penalty ) and front wheel floats back over the gate ( no touch, no straddle). Driver continues and rear wheels clear the gate.

Judge called progress and 10 point gate penalty. Which I believe was incorrect?

To simplify. Front axle cleared - than floated back ( no touch, no straddle, no reverse) and the rear axle cleared.

Originally Posted by Fishmaxx

Any part of a truck CAN flip, fly, hover, float, hover, twist or launch over the gate in any direction!

If the truck ...... 1) doesn't touch the gate, 2) doesn't straddle the gate, or 3) doesn't make progress.....ITS A NOT A PENALTY

If I am understanding your scenario correctly = NO PENALTY.

If understand your scenario correctly you didn't touch the gate, and you didn't straddle it. the ONLY thing that Judge could have CORRECTLY called was you did not get all 4 tires between the gate.

If you got a 4 tires between the gates the call was incorrect...BASED on my understanding of your explanation.

[Mic]

It was not me driving, just watching another run ( so not personally biased by the call ) and was suprised by the call. He definitly got the front axle though, then struggled for about 30 seconds ( when the float occured ) and then the rear axle tough.

The judge was ok other wise but I belive he was going with the old " beam of light idea".

[bob1961]

Originally Posted by renoirbud

if you progress through gate 4 and when attempting gate 5 your truck goes out of control and scrambles accross gate 4, but does not touch the gate markers, that is no penaly right? Because gate 4 was already cleared?

i think if you cleared gate 4 clean and got your progress bonus -2 points and went on to gate 5 and had a fubar and rolled, flipped, tumbled, farted back towards and stradled gate 4 without touching it then no penalty if you DID NOT TOUCH IT....you cleared the gate already for progress and can only touch it for 10 point penalty "IF" i read that right....your not trying to clear it to get to gate 5 all over again for bonus points.......bob

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[ittybitty]

I don't believe it's because you have already cleared it, but rather that straddling a gate only makes a difference when trying to progress the gate. In order to achieve progression without penalty you must pass all 4 tires between the gate markers. If you flip down a hill and tumble over a gate marker it is no penalty as long as you do not touch it.

[bob1961]

yeah that's what i was trying to say thx ........bob

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[JeremyH]

Originally Posted by ittybitty

I don't believe it's because you have already cleared it, but rather that straddling a gate only makes a difference when trying to progress the gate. In order to achieve progression without penalty you must pass all 4 tires between the gate markers. If you flip down a hill and tumble over a gate marker it is no penalty as long as you do not touch it.

Exactly. This happened to me on a 1.9 course during our state finals and it was agreed that I was not attempting to progress the gate therefore a penalty would have only been awarded if my truck had actually touched the gate.

[Absurd]

This came up once in scale, and actually happened again in 2.2 so I would like to know if this is allowed.

My vehicle flips upside down and is doing the course upside down with front wheels touching at best, on the gate its at a angle uphill the rear tires make it through and due to the hill the car spins bringing them over the left gate and the fronts close but not through "no gates touched" and I take a roll over rolling the tires through the gate still not touching them, is this a penalty other then touching? with progress or would I need to attempt it all over again?

Also If my xr falls and one body click bust off and my body falls back making it twice as long would I be required to take a penalty to fix the body issue or complete the course without it?, Also if I was using a lightweight rig and had paper thin fiber glass panels and a chunk bust off "not replaceable" what would happen?

[WAM]

Originally Posted by ittybitty

I don't believe it's because you have already cleared it, but rather that straddling a gate only makes a difference when trying to progress the gate. In order to achieve progression without penalty you must pass all 4 tires between the gate markers. If you flip down a hill and tumble over a gate marker it is no penalty as long as you do not touch it.

TwistedCreations wrote earlier in this thread:

"If at any time you straddle a gate, it is a penalty as all gates stay alive (unless that gate has been deemed dead by touching, stepping or straddling the marker)"

Seems like either he must be wrong, or you must be wrong. Where in the rules does it say you are allowed to straddle a live gate just because you are not attempting to progress it?

BTW..."stepping"?

[Duuuuuuuude]

If you straddle a live gate but do not touch it, its still live.

If you straddle a live gate, even if you are not trying to progress it, its still a penalty. Moreso if it is a gate that is out of sequence than the one you are currently progressing towards.

If you have complete loss of control the vehicle (tumbling downhill) you will not be penalized for a "straddle" if you fly over a gate marker.

[WAM]

Originally Posted by Duuuuuuuude

If you straddle a live gate but do not touch it, its still live. .

Why? Isn't a straddle an instant penalty per 6.8? If so, once straddled the marker is dead? (per 1.5)

Originally Posted by Duuuuuuuude

If you have complete loss of control the vehicle (tumbling downhill) you will not be penalized for a "straddle" if you fly over a gate marker.

Agree. Flying over is not straddling, also per 6.8.

[Duuuuuuuude]

Originally Posted by WAM

Why? Isn't a straddle an instant penalty per 6.8? If so, once straddled the marker is dead? (per 1.5)

As I understand it, a marker has to be touched to be dead.

edit: had to go back and re-read the rule. Apparently a straddled marker is a dead marker. Oops.

[Draggermirage]

So here's a question regarding the straddle situation.

Is it the axle centerline that needs to get into the gray area (from the photo in post 1)only? Will it be the the plane from the front edge of the tires? Or would it be the rear edge of the tire (defined as a progress when on the rear tires)?

Marcus

[Duuuuuuuude]

Originally Posted by Draggermirage

So here's a question regarding the straddle situation.

Is it the axle centerline that needs to get into the gray area (from the photo in post 1)only? Will it be the the plane from the front edge of the tires? Or would it be the rear edge of the tire (defined as a progress when on the rear tires)?

Marcus

I would say that if any part of an axle is above any part of the marker, it is a straddle. Where the tires are is irrelevant unless you are going the wrong way through a gate, which is a different kind of no-no.

[Cirederf]

Hello gentlemen , I need some help for clarify some situations . I read the rules and this thread but i got some misunderstood .
1) the truck is on a sidehill, he is going to gate 3 but, fall down and fly over the left gate marker of the gate 5 but not touch it (front axle inside the gate , rear axle outside the gate). No penalty ?
2)the truck is on a sidehill, he is going to the gate 3 but, fall down and fly over the left gate marker of the gate 5 but not touch it (the 2 left tires inside the gate and the 2 right tires outside the gate ) . Penalty for wrong direction course?
2)the truck is on a sidehill, he is going to the gate 3 but, fall down and roll down trough the gate 5 ( all the tires get trough the gate ) Penalty for wrong direction course ?
In advance thanks .

[EvilTwin v2]

Originally Posted by Cirederf

Hello gentlemen , I need some help for clarify some situations . I read the rules and this thread but i got some misunderstood .
1) the truck is on a sidehill, he is going to gate 3 but, fall down and fly over the left gate marker of the gate 5 but not touch it (front axle inside the gate , rear axle outside the gate). No penalty ?
2)the truck is on a sidehill, he is going to the gate 3 but, fall down and fly over the left gate marker of the gate 5 but not touch it (the 2 left tires inside the gate and the 2 right tires outside the gate ) . Penalty for wrong direction course?
2)the truck is on a sidehill, he is going to the gate 3 but, fall down and roll down trough the gate 5 ( all the tires get trough the gate ) Penalty for wrong direction course ?
In advance thanks .

Any time a gate is entered out of order or in the wrong direction (at least until the gate has been progressed), it is a course direction penalty. If I'm reading you correctly, in all of your examples, as soon as the truck entered the gate, time would stop and penalty assessed.

[Cirederf]

Thanks EvilTwin v2

Any time a gate is entered out of order or in the wrong direction (at least until the gate has been progressed), it is a course direction penalty. If I'm reading you correctly, in all of your examples, as soon as the truck entered the gate, time would stop and penalty assessed.

In the situation 1 only the front axle tires go between the gate marker. So there is no progress . It is written, higher, that to make a pirouette above a gate is not a penalty. From there comes my incomprehension. When a gate is considerate progress or attempted soon the rig fall on it ?

[EvilTwin v2]

Originally Posted by Cirederf

Thanks EvilTwin v2

In the situation 1 only the front axle tires go between the gate marker. So there is no progress . It is written, higher, that to make a pirouette above a gate is not a penalty. From there comes my incomprehension. When a gate is considerate progress or attempted soon the rig fall on it ?

The section on Course Direction reads as follows:

"Course Direction (10 pts) Gates must be cleared in their intended direction and sequence. Any part
of the vehicle entering an un-cleared gate in the wrong direction, or driven through out of sequence will result in a 10
point penalty. The judge will stop time. The vehicle is then moved back by the driver to the previously cleared gate with
the rear axle aligned to that gate. If the vehicle cannot be aligned to the gate due to course design, the judge will
reposition the vehicle to the next stable location after the cleared gate. This location will be used for all drivers. Once the
gate is cleared and awarded progress it can be traveled in any sequence or direction."

[Hardline]

What does "entering an uncleared gate" mean? Obviously driving any part of the truck between the markers from either direction. But if it tumbles over, maybe even way over the gate, nowhere near the markers?

It would seem like maybe a fly-over isn't entering. Yet you can legally progress with an accurate fly-over, so I'm not sure.

[EvilTwin v2]

Originally Posted by Hardline

What does "entering an uncleared gate" mean? Obviously driving any part of the truck between the markers from either direction. But if it tumbles over, maybe even way over the gate, nowhere near the markers?

It would seem like maybe a fly-over isn't entering. Yet you can legally progress with an accurate fly-over, so I'm not sure.

You have to be able to enter a gate to get progress, so if you can progress a gate 6 feet above the ground, then you also have to accept that you can be penalized for entering a gate out of order or in the wrong direction at that height.

[Cirederf]

Thanks a lot again it look more clear now .
What happened if the gate where the rig fall on is a gate already cleared ? In my previous example , not the gate 6 but the gate 2 .
If I understand correctly there is no penalty , only if the rig heat the gate marker still alive ?