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Old 06-10-2015, 12:46 PM   #1
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Default Redcat steering thread

Pics added 7/18.
I have been hesitant to start this thread because I have no means of taking pictures and proving what I say. I have been tinkering with my Redcat Rx10's steering for 3 years now. Here are some of my actual experiences and opinions based on experiments I have tried. I'll start with knuckles...

Anything that fits an Axial AX10 will work with the right washer in the right place. It should always be a "high steering" knuckle so that you don't bump into the axle and limit your steering potential. The more you spend the better it gets. This hasn't been true with all areas of my Redcat testing, but knuckles is the place you can really tell a difference with each step up.

Here's your entry level step up.
Hot Racing High Clearance Steering Knuckles Aluminum for Axial AX10, SCP21M01

These are way better than stock and have the high clearance aspect you need for good steering on a Redcat. Do you see the way there's that bend in the steering arm when it comes off the knuckle? This is less than ideal and causes some minor issues. It is stuff that would only matter if you were going for the guiness book of records worlds best turning Redcat like I happen to be. The other minor issue with these is that (I think) they are 8* knuckles. This causes there to be some pinching of the Chub at extreme angles. Once again only something that matters if you want ALL the turning. Overall I give them a "B" when I factor in cost vs benefit. They are a solid alternative and will definitely get you started down the right path.

Your step up...
RC Accessories - Axial SCX10 Parts - High Steering Knuckles - Vanquish Products
Now these mamba jammas are all you really need. If you have any interest in these, I'd snap some up just in case Vanquish ever goes all Zno on us and bails. See how the arm comes off straight? This gives me all the steering and makes it so that my knuckle is never the thing holding me back when I am looking for more. They are also 0 Ackerman, so there is no pinching to limit me either. I paid $42 at my LHS and still give them an "A".

The Mack Daddy be all end all gods gift to Redcat steering....
DLUX FAB | products
I got these in the aluminum because they match with this stainless steel chrome plated axle I have been working on. I got them a month ago and they still give me wood every time I walk by my crawler. The two extra bearings he puts in these, coupled with all of the holes and mounting options ...well anyways I like em. "A+++"

I wish I could take pictures here, because I do have one durability concern. I reeaally have that carbon fiber stretched out. I'm pretty sure I wasn't supposed to use the mounting holes quite the way I did, and only have 2 screws holding each carbon fiber plate on instead of a potential 4. Technically, he is only using 2 in the picture, but they are at that nice diagonal pattern. So we will see how that goes. If it ever failed I wouldn't hesitate to replace it with some type of metal and still think they were the cats meow when it comes to getting more steering in a Redcat.

Someday I will step up and get some of the matching wheel weights, but I have no issues with tinkering on this thing for another 3 years. So it's no hurry.

I'll do a post on Wheel wideners later. I will do one on Axles as well. This is an open source discussion and any one is welcome to talk about after market parts that they have used to enhance Redcat Steering.

Last edited by Overkel; 07-18-2015 at 08:30 PM.
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Old 06-10-2015, 01:22 PM   #2
Rock Stacker
 
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Default Re: Redcat steering thread

Ok Let's talk wheel wideners. You're going to need more width if you are going to get more turning. In fact it could be said that it is the main determining factor in how much steering angle you can get. Luckily (as far as I can tell) it is one of the easiest fixes with the most possible options, and tends to be cheap.

So I started with this from the LHS....
New Traxxas Hex Wheel Hub 2 5x12mm Fr Rustler Stampede 2 3654 | eBay
Honestly they worked fine and I have no complaints. In fact the way they mount up is actually better for my needs now; than what I have actually gone with. Obviously 12mm
isn't going to cut it when you are going for the record, so I went with these...

Hot Racing HPI Wheely King 12mm Aluminum Multi Width Wheel Hub SCP10MW01 | eBay

Awww yeah 30mm of fun. Come to poppa. I drew my inspiration from a post some one put up in here about a similar wheel widener.
http://www.rccrawler.com/forum/redca...t-rs10-xt.html

For the Hot Racing wheel widener, you just need to drill out the taper in it with a DeWalt Pilot point Titanium 13/64 drill bit. I used a $20 drill and it still went through it like butter.
5 minute mod once you have a vice and the right drill bit. It just slides right on and fits perfectly into the existing hex after that. Here's the problem with the Hot racing wheel widener for me....they are a total pain to work with when you have the D-lux Knuckle. It would take too long to describe, so I will just say that they are tricky to get on and trickier to get off when used with that particular knuckle.

If you are going with the Vanquish or Hot Racing knuckle, these things are super sweet, easy to work with, and offer a lot of versatility based on your mood.

I don't know how to measure the turning angle with these things maxed out, but would describe it as "Ridiculous" . I only use the 15mm base one for daily driving to be honest. It feels just right to me.
I only use them on the front and have the rear axle mostly stock for nostalgia purposes. There's so little Redcat left on it these days.

Last edited by Overkel; 06-10-2015 at 01:25 PM.
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Old 06-10-2015, 01:39 PM   #3
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Default Re: Redcat steering thread

Ok these wheel rings might not count as helping turning on a Redcat, but as long as we are in the neighborhood....

Delrin Beadlock Rings!!! (Axial, VP, Mayhem, TSS and others!)

Here's the way I look at it. These things took about a pound of rotating mass off my rig when compared to the stock metal ones.
That makes me feel more agile just knowing that.

They look awesome on the stock black rims, are fun to order (I asked for lots of extra holes to put in some shiny screws for contrast and more weight on the front and no extra screw holes for less weight in the back), and are pretty darn cheap. Just remember to say that they are for a standard Axial 2.2 .....6 hole pattern.
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Old 06-10-2015, 02:45 PM   #4
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Default Re: Redcat steering thread

I'm going to start talking about axles, but might run out of time. I save it for last, because this piece of the puzzle is still a work in progress in many ways. On one hand I have what I consider to be a perfectly acceptable and workable option that is super cheap and easy to do (once you've done it the first time). On the other hand there is this whole world of things I have not tried yet, so it makes me want to keep trying to fix it anyway. Someday I would love to send one of my axles in to one of these vendors that has all the CVD's lying around. I have a sneaky suspicion that 2 short sides from a berg or 2 long sides from something else, would just pop right in if you had them all to work with. At least then I would know what the nicest possible Redcat steering setup was.

My whole experience with axles amounts to shortening Traxxas slash axles. Nice thing about them is that there are a lot of options. These work just fine for me....
Traxxas TRA6851X Front Drive Shaft Axle Assembly Slash 4x4 Stampede 4x4 | eBay
I have been running a set on my back yard rock pile for a year now and they show no wear other than places where a groove has been worn in to make them one with the axle case.
No twisting no bending no sign of them ever even thinking of breaking. There's nothing about them that limits steering in any appreciable way. It just seems too easy and therefore
I must continue to mess with it.

A couple of tips for cutting down slash axles. If you think it needs to be an inch shorter, you typically have to cut off an inch from each side to make that work. On the plastic ones you will need to shave them down in a few spots and maybe even clearance the axle housing a hair with a dremel because they are on the thick side in a few places. This was a really long laborious process of grinding a little, putting it back together, taking it apart, grinding some more....etc;
Now that I have it down and the housings are dialed I can do it in 20 minutes, but the first time was a pain to get everything just right.

These shafts have worked just fine with all of the knuckles, wheel wideners, etc; I have previously talked about.

I just bought a set similar to these.
Hard Steel Front Swing Shaft CVD Traxxas Slash Stampede 4x4 6807 6808 6708 | eBay
I ordered these, but something slightly different showed up. I am not done messing with them yet, but they seem like they are going to fit just fine.

Let me ask you guys something. What do you think of these?
Rzeppa Joint True CVD Front Shaft for Traxxas Slash Stampede 4x4 6807 6808 6708 | eBay
What does it look like that max steering angle is to you guys? The only thing that has been holding me up on trying these is that blue boot. It totally doesn't match my chrome and carbon fiber color scheme.

Speaking of things that I made fit onto a Redcat...
Billet Works Designs - Build Instructions - XR Mantis
That'll fit.
Technically it affects Redcat steering by virtue of it's torsion design. Although, I wouldn't say it makes it better necessarily. The nice thing about this kit was that I didn't have to figure out how to make links, and now that I have 2 extra shocks, I have 2 for droop and 2 for regular.
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Old 06-10-2015, 11:12 PM   #5
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Default Re: Redcat steering thread

I believe universals will give you more steering angle than cvds

thanks for posting this, lots of good information for us who want to get the most of our rs10s

have to work on getting a camera, even a cell phone will give good enough pictures if you have
a steady hand and plenty of light. be good to see what your rig looks like and what other subtleties
you have sneaked in.

I have seen an rs10 in an older mantis aluminum chassis, I think it is in the picture gallery
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Old 06-11-2015, 08:14 PM   #6
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Default Re: Redcat steering thread

Yes, I would especially like to be able to show my homemade front axle battery mount. Made from a couple strips of Lexan and some Velcro tape, using a heat gun to shape it. I bought a hack saw for shortening my steel universals this morning. If they fit, tonight I will be looking hard for a camera to use. It is pretty torn apart at the moment. If they don't fit, it will stay torn apart until I get a new upgrade that fits. I want the next time that I put on those wheel wideners with the Dlux knuckles to be the last. I don't intend to ever tear it apart again once I get a steel uni in there.

I'd also like for peeps to be able to look at my current knuckle set up to weigh in on whether or not they think it will hold up, or if I could have mounted them differently.

Last edited by Overkel; 06-11-2015 at 08:32 PM.
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Old 06-24-2015, 10:46 AM   #7
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Default Re: Redcat steering thread

I have tried several types of wideners on the rs10. I found these work best. BTW: scx10 knuckles fit fine but you
must narrow your tie rods a bit. If you play 'wheel roulette' like I do, wideners are required for fit.





I play 'body roulette' too. fun fun fun


Last edited by P.A.Myers; 06-24-2015 at 10:50 AM. Reason: to confuse
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Old 06-26-2015, 12:42 AM   #8
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Default Re: Redcat steering thread

Love that rig and like the wideners. I might have to try those. Thanks for the input.

Not all ax10 knuckles require shortening of the tie rod. Just the ones that angle in instead of pointing straight out on the steering arm part.
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Old 06-26-2015, 11:35 AM   #9
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Default Re: Redcat steering thread

Didn't know there was such a thing. The angled knuckles do help keep the tie-rod ends away from the wheels. I have some ultra-wide
monster wheels that would not fit even with the +17 wideners.


IE:




Also; the stocks tie-rods can be shortened enough, at the threads, to work fine.

Last edited by P.A.Myers; 06-26-2015 at 11:38 AM. Reason: more
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Old 07-13-2015, 11:35 PM   #10
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Default Re: Redcat steering thread

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Old 07-18-2015, 05:05 PM   #11
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Default Re: Redcat steering thread

Just testing to see if a pic worked.
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Old 07-18-2015, 05:20 PM   #12
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Default Re: Redcat steering thread

Well since that one worked, let's talk about it a bit. So there's the part where your wheel and widener would go and then on the metal one there's kind of an extended nipple where the Traxxas one does not have much of a nipple at all. Even though the Traxxas is a bit wider in diameter, the lack of this nipple is why it fits much nicer and doesn't bind.

You can see where I had to grind on the Traxxas a little bit just below the first Ujoint. I clearanced the inside of the axle just a little bit in the same spot and put a drop of grease in the same spot until it got properly broken in through use. Now it is smooth as a whistle and nothing I have tried to replace it with has fit quite as well or worked as smoothly. The only other thing I did was shorten it on each side(I can't remember if it was a half inch or an inch, but it wasn't a lot.) Even if the metal one would have been as smooth and nice fitting, I would have taken it out. It was insanely heavy compared to the traxxas (Or even stock for that matter). You could easily feel the difference when you lifted up the front end of the rig by hand. No scale needed.

Now that I have a camera and a star (And figured out how to resize things), there should be a lot more pics coming soon.
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Old 07-18-2015, 06:29 PM   #13
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Default Re: Redcat steering thread

Here's a few (but by no means all) of the steering configurations I have tinkered around with. I still haven't settled in on just the perfect one yet. All of them have a draw back or 2.

I wish that middle configuration had full torque through out the entire range of motion. Repurposing that stock redcat shock mount for steering just tickles me to no end.

The set up in the last couple pics is what I have on it now. I went out to my backyard work bench to experiment with my new camera. And just thought I'd make 1 minor adjustment. The next thing you know, it's 5 hours and 3 complete new configurations later...and that's what it looks like now. Poor Redcat. In retrospect I wish I would have taken pics of the configs that I didn't like, so they could at least be talked about and/or warned against. (That's a noob poster for ya.)


My next try will be to find a way to reconfigure the way my servo sits so that it will be up and down like a berg instead of side ways like it is now. Not because I think that is better, more because I cannot stop myself from tinkering. In fact, the only reason it is in droop is because I looked at the shocks one day and was like "Wait a minute....you haven't been modified in any way". I can't have that.

All questions, comments, or helpful advice are welcome. I check in here at least once a week.
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Old 07-18-2015, 07:09 PM   #14
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Default Re: Redcat steering thread

Just trying to get a decent shot of my current max steering angle. To get more than this, I'd need to cut the rims (or get thinner ones).

OOOOR I could throw on the 2 more extra attachments I have for the wheel wideners. That makes it stupid wide in a way that no one would ever use, but it might be handy if I was just going for the Redcat steering angle record.

What kind of angle do you think I have so far? I have no clue how to measure it.
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Old 07-18-2015, 07:11 PM   #15
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Default Re: Redcat steering thread

I'm thinking that last pic probably has the best angle of the bunch, but it's hard for me to say.
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Old 07-19-2015, 04:21 PM   #16
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Default Re: Redcat steering thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Overkel View Post
Just testing to see if a pic worked.
you will have to forgive my noobness with crawlers...the traxxas shafts...are they fitting in the axle tubes?

Just wanting to buy my first crawler and looking for a way to beef up drivetrain
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Old 07-20-2015, 10:26 PM   #17
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Default Re: Redcat steering thread

That's what the thread is for. Feel free to ask any other questions.

I have tried many different shafts and always go back to the Traxxas plastic ones.
They are inexpensive, the easiest to work with, fit the best with any knuckle, light weight, and plenty strong.

I can't imagine doing this mod with out a dremmel for clearancing the inside of the axle and smoothing out a
couple wide spots on the shafts themselves as you can see in the pic. Not sure if you read this part earlier in
the post, but they will need to be shortened to fit in the Redcat axle case.

Last edited by Overkel; 07-20-2015 at 10:30 PM.
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Old 07-20-2015, 11:25 PM   #18
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Default Re: Redcat steering thread

So on to todays mod attempt. Hmmm something doesn't seem quite right on this rear axle. If both of those are there...then what is holding on the servo?
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Old 07-20-2015, 11:28 PM   #19
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Default Re: Redcat steering thread

So it's a servo mount from a bully to see if we can go sideways with the servo, using our favorite shock mount on the steering arm again.
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Old 07-20-2015, 11:32 PM   #20
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Default Re: Redcat steering thread

The handy dandy low profile servo with the quick release wire on it sure comes in handy when you like to reconfigure your axle as much as I do. And it's waterproof ta boot !
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