New Redcat Camo X4 Rock Racer

[Jim85IROC]

One of the 5 new vehicles that Redcat released today is the Camo X4. This is a Yeti & Rock Rey style rock racer with an independent front suspension and solid rear axle.



The vehicle has about a 14" wheelbase, so it's right around the same size as the Yeti and the Rock Rey. It's got a 3300kv 540 sized Leopard motor, which seems a bit small to me. The Rock Rey and Yeti both use a 550 sized motor. The Speed control is a 60a Hobbywing, which also seems a tad small.

The radio is the same 2 channel Flysky that comes with the Gen7.

Overall the chassis looks like a pretty good design. I'm not seeing anything that really jumps out at me as an obvious problem or weak spot on the chassis or the suspension.



The rear axle appears to be 100% identical to the front & rear axles in the new Horizon Hammerjaw, which itself appears to be an updated version of the RGT Rock Hammer. The Rock Hammer is made by HSP, who also makes the Redcat Everest 10 and Gen7, so it's very likely that HSP is also who makes this new Camo X4. This axle design seems to be a much better design than what's used in the Rock Hammer/E10/Gen7, except that I'm really not sure about the longevity of the spool design. It looks like they tried to share as many parts as possible with the front differential, including the dogbone-style drive cups. I would have much preferred to see them stick with the more traditional style driveshafts & spools used in the rear E10/Gen7 axles. With any luck, it'll be easy to swap in an AR60 locker & axles to replace this outdrive & dogbone stuff.



Redcat is showing an MSRP of $389. If the street price ends up below $300, this thing may end up being a huge bargain. I recently bought a Yeti kit, and I bought a Hobby King Desert Fox a while back was a "budget" Rock Racer to compare to the Yeti. I'd love to see if I can get one of these to throw into that comparison too.

[hillbillyrc]

Looks interesting. The rear axle could be swapped out depending on size. Not having anything Independent suspension from redcat my concern would be strength of the front suspension. And servo replacement would be first upgrade. Besides that I'd be interested in the price and hopefully a better look at one.

[Jim85IROC]

Based on the dimensions, it looks like any Wraith/Bomber/Yeti style axle assembly should be pretty easy to retrofit. I'm also cautiously optimistic that an XR60 locker & axles could be retrofitted into this axle without major issues. That would be a cheap, easy way to upgrade this.

The redcat servo, as far as RTR servos go, isn't too bad. Any time you introduce a servo saver, having a more powerful servo generally offers very little benefit. A faster servo might be a worthwhile upgrade, but otherwise I probably wouldn't bother unless I was going to eliminate the servo saver too.

As for durability, that will remain to be seen. The thing with Redcats is that quite often they're a rebadged something-else, so the durability can sometimes be hit or miss. Some of Redcat's newer vehicles, although still very dependent on the OEM's overall components, seems to have better engineering design and better overall build quality. It seems that they're slowly phasing out that older hodge-podge junk and replacing it with this better stuff. Hopefully that means that this will be a good vehicle, but at this point all we can do is speculate.

[JatoTheRipper]

Not bad looking, but looks too much like a Yeti XL IMO.

Releasing 5 new models at once is a huge deal especially if they aren't all sharing the same parts. I'll have to checkout their other releases.

Originally Posted by Jim85IROC

As for durability, that will remain to be seen. The thing with Redcats is that quite often they're a rebadged something-else, so the durability can sometimes be hit or miss. Some of Redcat's newer vehicles, although still very dependent on the OEM's overall components, seems to have better engineering design and better overall build quality. It seems that they're slowly phasing out that older hodge-podge junk and replacing it with this better stuff. Hopefully that means that this will be a good vehicle, but at this point all we can do is speculate.

Wait...so Redcat doesn't manufacture any of their vehicles?

[Jim85IROC]

Originally Posted by JatoTheRipper

Not bad looking, but looks too much like a Yeti XL IMO.

Releasing 5 new models at once is a huge deal especially if they aren't all sharing the same parts. I'll have to checkout their other releases.



Wait...so Redcat doesn't manufacture any of their vehicles?

I don't think they do. Most RC companies don't. I know that Axial gets their plastics molded in Taiwan by some company that they don't own. In Redcat's case, they use HSP and perhaps other manufacturers to get their stuff produced. In the case of the Gen7, they started with HSP's solid axle design, but designed a large number of unique parts for that truck. Later on they also deviated from HSP's standard axle design by having high steer knuckles added.

My guess is that these new trucks are the same way. They're a mixture of the OEM's existing designs and new Redcat-specific parts.

[JatoTheRipper]

Originally Posted by Jim85IROC

I don't think they do. Most RC companies don't. I know that Axial gets their plastics molded in Taiwan by some company that they don't own. In Redcat's case, they use HSP and perhaps other manufacturers to get their stuff produced. In the case of the Gen7, they started with HSP's solid axle design, but designed a large number of unique parts for that truck. Later on they also deviated from HSP's standard axle design by having high steer knuckles added.

My guess is that these new trucks are the same way. They're a mixture of the OEM's existing designs and new Redcat-specific parts.

Axial uses vendors to manufacture their parts, but at the end of the day it's their unique design. They don't use parts or designs from other companies.

IMO in order for Redcat to be taken seriously they have to stop the rebranding thing, design their own vehicles, and get the quality to be higher and consistent.

[Jim85IROC]

Originally Posted by JatoTheRipper

Axial uses vendors to manufacture their parts, but at the end of the day it's their unique design. They don't use parts or designs from other companies.

IMO in order for Redcat to be taken seriously they have to stop the rebranding thing, design their own vehicles, and get the quality to be higher and consistent.

I see your point, but I only partially agree. Redcat is a "value" brand. Even as they transition from cheap crap to higher quality stuff, their place in the market is as a lower price option to the mainstream stuff. If they're going to be able to price their products significantly below those brands, they need to lower manufacturing costs. One great way to do that is to utilize off the shelf parts wherever it's practical. If the Gen7 is any indication, I think that Redcat is on the right track. They can use a combination of off the shelf and unique parts to make their brand as unique as it needs to be, while also being able to address the shortcomings of those off the shelf parts and keep their brand unique. The Gen7 uses the HSP axle assemblies, but Redcat listened to customers and saw all of us upgrading the trucks to get better steering. Not long after, aluminum high steer knuckles were developed and sold, and not long after that, the trucks started shipping with plastic versions of the high steer knuckles. Now Redcat is finding out that having more steering available with the stock dogbones might not have been too smart because everybody is breaking c-hubs, so I expect them to design some stops into the steering, or teach their assembly guys how to set the endpoints on the controller properly.

Point being: Redcat's newer models seem to seeking a middle ground between unique designs and rebranding that I think can be very successful if they put the effort in up front to find those weak parts and redesign them before the vehicle ships. If they don't do this up front, I think it's going to burn them. Using the general public as a beta tester may eventually get you a good product, but it gets too much junk out there which can damage their reputation.

[JatoTheRipper]

Originally Posted by Jim85IROC

I see your point, but I only partially agree. Redcat is a "value" brand. Even as they transition from cheap crap to higher quality stuff, their place in the market is as a lower price option to the mainstream stuff. If they're going to be able to price their products significantly below those brands, they need to lower manufacturing costs. One great way to do that is to utilize off the shelf parts wherever it's practical. If the Gen7 is any indication, I think that Redcat is on the right track. They can use a combination of off the shelf and unique parts to make their brand as unique as it needs to be, while also being able to address the shortcomings of those off the shelf parts and keep their brand unique. The Gen7 uses the HSP axle assemblies, but Redcat listened to customers and saw all of us upgrading the trucks to get better steering. Not long after, aluminum high steer knuckles were developed and sold, and not long after that, the trucks started shipping with plastic versions of the high steer knuckles. Now Redcat is finding out that having more steering available with the stock dogbones might not have been too smart because everybody is breaking c-hubs, so I expect them to design some stops into the steering, or teach their assembly guys how to set the endpoints on the controller properly.

Point being: Redcat's newer models seem to seeking a middle ground between unique designs and rebranding that I think can be very successful if they put the effort in up front to find those weak parts and redesign them before the vehicle ships. If they don't do this up front, I think it's going to burn them. Using the general public as a beta tester may eventually get you a good product, but it gets too much junk out there which can damage their reputation.

Good point. It's a Catch 22. Either you put quality first at the expense of added cost or you cut costs to meet a price point in which case your reputation often suffers.

[JatoTheRipper]

Here's a video of it in action. It appears their new trophy truck, also seen in this video, is based off of the same chassis.

One thing that Redcat has done right IMO is the looks of their vehicles. I think they make some of the coolest and meanest looking RTRs.

[Jim85IROC]

Agreed. I think they look fantastic. I'm also very happy with my one and only Redcat vehicle (Gen7). In the case of that vehicle, they struck a great balance of price vs. performance. They put the expense into the right places, and saved money in the right places (current c-hub breaking debacle notwithstanding). If they can keep that balance moving forward, their reputation is going to continue to improve.

Now if I could just convince them that they need Budget RC to be their official product reviewer...

[Jim85IROC]

In looking more closely, it appears that the front of the truck is the same as the new Dukono truck. Same front suspension, same steering, etc.

I had hoped to download the Dukono manual to confirm compatibility, but it seems that the manuals for these 5 new trucks are no longer up. They were up this morning and I grabbed the manual for the Camo X4.

[Jim85IROC]

A review of the HNR - H9801 - MARS - 1/10 4WD monster truck was just posted over on RCGroups. It appears to be another rebrand of the Dukono Pro, and uses the wheels & tires from the Camo X4. One issue already identified from that review is that the outdrives are soft. Because the Camo X4 uses those same stupid outdrives INSIDE of the rear axle, as I feared, that's going to end up being an issue.

The one bonus here is that apparently there are a few rebrands of this platform, so this should help with parts availability.

[Frank211]

More info on Official – 5 New Vehicles From Redcat Racing! « Big Squid RC – RC Car and Truck News, Reviews, Videos, and More!



EDIT... Just more monster truck's

[hillbillyrc]

Originally Posted by Jim85IROC

A review of the HNR - H9801 - MARS - 1/10 4WD monster truck was just posted over on RCGroups. It appears to be another rebrand of the Dukono Pro, and uses the wheels & tires from the Camo X4. One issue already identified from that review is that the outdrives are soft. Because the Camo X4 uses those same stupid outdrives INSIDE of the rear axle, as I feared, that's going to end up being an issue.

The one bonus here is that apparently there are a few rebrands of this platform, so this should help with parts availability.

Or SOL on common parts like the barrage and the gold laden aluminum spools. (A hint of sarcasm)

[Gramps]

Originally Posted by JatoTheRipper

Here's a video of it in action. It appears their new trophy truck, also seen in this video, is based off of the same chassis.

One thing that Redcat has done right IMO is the looks of their vehicles. I think they make some of the coolest and meanest looking RTRs.

Axial's Yeti & Trophy Truck share the same chassis. The cages are different and as are the tires but the main chassis is the same. I already have both a Axial Yeti, Trophy Truck as well as the Exo Terra buggy which is now out of production.

So now matter how cool these turn out to be I don't see myself buying either one.

[JatoTheRipper]

Originally Posted by Jim85IROC

A review of the HNR - H9801 - MARS - 1/10 4WD monster truck was just posted over on RCGroups. It appears to be another rebrand of the Dukono Pro, and uses the wheels & tires from the Camo X4. One issue already identified from that review is that the outdrives are soft. Because the Camo X4 uses those same stupid outdrives INSIDE of the rear axle, as I feared, that's going to end up being an issue.

The one bonus here is that apparently there are a few rebrands of this platform, so this should help with parts availability.

Wait, so the X4 isn't a new platform?

[Jim85IROC]

Originally Posted by JatoTheRipper

Wait, so the X4 isn't a new platform?

Not entirely. The front half is the same as that HNR Mars, and the back half shares parts (rear axle & maybe links) with the Force RC (Horizon) Hammerjaw.

[hillbillyrc]

And that hammer jaw rig is a rebrand hsp/rgt/ftx rig. Full circle

[Jim85IROC]

Originally Posted by hillbillyrc

And that hammer jaw rig is a rebrand hsp/rgt/ftx rig. Full circle

Not exactly, but yes. It shares an awful lot of parts with the RGT Rock Hammer, but the Rock Hammer uses the "old" axles like you find under the Gen7 and the E10 trucks. The Hammerjaw has a newer axle variant, which is what you're also seeing behind the new Redcat Camo truck.

These new axles appear to be a "Gen 2" offering from HSP. At first I was really impressed until I saw the exploded diagram and discovered that they're using the same diff housing as up front, including the outdrives! Burried inside of that axle housing is a set of outdrives and dogbone axles. The "locker" in the diff consists of a rectangular plate that just sits in the plastic diff housing. But, it's not the end of the world if it turns out that you can swap in an Axial-compatible spool and some AR60 axles.