Bodied vs Bodiless Clarification

[Robb]

First off, I am not looking to see how far I can bend the rules or anything here to gain some sort of advantage. I am just seeking some clarification. As far as RCC.com, or participating in RCC sanctioned comps, is concerned, I look at it I am at a party at someone else’s house, and hey, if I am at their house, I will follow their rules.

I view “2.2 Bodied” rigs as resembling heavily modified stock rigs, and “2.2 Bodiless” rigs resembling 1:1 buggies. I am looking into the gray area in the middle there, mainly in reference to 1:1 Pro Mod rigs.

Since neither is defined as being built around a ladder frame (left to scale class), is there a clear line drawn between bodied and bodiless?

This is my example (i.e., what I am looking to build over the long weekend):

I am looking at building a tuber (technically bodiless), but instead of flat panels as usually seen on buggies, I am looking to use scale body parts (technically bodied). I have a Wrangler QD that I was looking to chop up as individual panels (hood/grille, doors, and scratch made roof). Now, the body as a whole is only 11” long, so if I use enough of it and it falls into “bodied” glass, it is illegal. So, if I build a complete tuber underassembly, then place the body on top of it, it is a no go. But, if I build a complete tuber, and only throw the hood, doors, and roof on it, it falls into “bodiless” class and is legal.

If I use anymore of the body than the body/grille and doors, does it then become Bodied, and therefore illegal? It just seems that I can cut out the body and use a could of parts of it, and it is bodiless and legal, but if I use too much of it, it then becomes bodied and illegal. Where is the line drawn?

Just as an example, here is a pic a TC Brian Errea Pro Mod rig. If this was a scaled down RC crawler, would it be bodied or bodiless?


Thanks for the help!!

[Kamikaze]

If it is just using parts of a body like a hood and sides but has all the structural parts in place to hold it together then it is bodiless.

[Robb]

Originally Posted by Kamikaze

If it is just using parts of a body like a hood and sides but has all the structural parts in place to hold it together then it is bodiless.

So, if it is a complete tuber, structurally stable on it's own, and then a body (short of body requirements) is simply placed on top of it, it is still considered bodiless?

That was all I needed to know, Thanks!

[Kamikaze]

Originally Posted by Robb

So, if it is a complete tuber, structurally stable on it's own, and then a body (short of body requirements) is simply placed on top of it, it is still considered bodiless?

That was all I needed to know, Thanks!

Thats my interpretation of it. But I am not sure about running a full lexan body that is to small. I think that would be considered a bodied vehicle.

[Robb]

Originally Posted by Kamikaze

But I am not sure about running a full lexan body that is to small. I think that would be considered a bodied vehicle.

This would be the same uncertainty that I have.


This would be where I stand...................and please excuse the crappy pics. I work off a mini keyboard with touchpad at the house, so my chopping is shotty.

1st would be a fictional tube chassis made

2nd would be a couple of minimal panels attached to the chassis, legal as Bodiless

3rd would be most of the body, technically being less advantageous
than 2nd and more realistic as a Pro Mod rig, but illegal as a Bodied rig.

2nd would be legal, but 3rd wouldn't be by the rules as I read them. IMO, 3rd should be, but this leads back to the clarification that I am looking for.

[Kamikaze]

the 3rd would be, cause the cage sticks out the top. Basically if you stick a full lexan body on any chassis its a bodied truck. I think........

[Robb]

Originally Posted by Kamikaze

the 3rd would be, cause the cage sticks out the top.

So, if you cut a body at sill height, and extend the cage/chassis up beyond the body, bodied rules can be discarded? The separation of bodied and bodiless truly exists in the top of the body?

I think you and I are on the same page Kamikaze, and your responses and speculations are asking the same questions I am.



I did a crappy job of my 3rd pic above, and to cut it like a Pro Mod would be more along these lines, which be more in the ballpark of how I would like to cut it. The only real difference would be the inclusion of the rear of the body, which if body rules come into play, is too short. So, in the long run, would a body cut like this fall into the genre of bodiless and only be subject to the measurements of that class? I can chop mine like the 2nd above, and be happy as bodiless, but the more I can keep the better IMO.

[Kamikaze]

I would consider that a tuber with body panels, it doesn't matter where the panels came from, its still a tuber and in my opinion a bodiless rig. Any rule guru's care to chime in on this??

[rckjeep]

Here's the actual rules read them. It should clear things up.

USRCCA rules

2.1.3 - Bodiless vehicles: Must be a self-supporting, structurally complete, rigid frame. The roof
must be raised a minimum of 1” from the main chassis to resemble a cockpit. The frame sides must
be an overall minimum of 1” tall (The cockpit & frame side are to be measured vertically from where
the hood intersects the cab). Bodiless vehicles should resemble a 1:1 vehicle. NOTE: These bodiless
rules are in a 1 year trial period to see how people respond to it and after that time these rules &
requirements may be revised.

2.1.3.1 - Bodiless vehicles must have solid hood panel, solid roof panel and a minimum of 2
solid side-panels. Hood, roof and side panels must be separate pieces of solid material
installed onto the bodiless vehicle frame. All body panels are to be separate pieces from the
complete structural frame. Body panels must be solidly installed in a manner that is
representative of a 1:1 vehicle. It is required that at least one point of the side-panel must
reach to a span of 1” tall or more & at least one other point of the side-panel must reach to a
span of 2.5” long or more.

[bondt]

so according to the rules you posted, as long as you cut them into separate pieces then it's ok?

Hood, roof and side panels must be separate pieces of solid material
installed onto the bodiless vehicle frame

that's the way i am reading it.

[rambuller84]

Looks like as long as you make eash panel individual you've got a tuber!

[sloppy]

why would you have to cut them up I see minimum of two solid side panels I see no mention of maximum size or design of panel.
I would think from reading the rules all you need to do on any of them is deattach the hood. from the body. and apparently separate your side panels from the cowl somehow..

so what your saying is a body like this would be illegal cause the panel is all one part?

[Rockpiledriver]

Those would both be legal bodiless rigs.

[Grizzly4x4]

Originally Posted by Rockpiledriver

Those would both be legal bodiless rigs.

Agreed.

If your rig is a self supporting structure that meets the requirements of the bodiless definition, then it doesn't matter if you put a body on top of it to meet the panel requirements.
Even if the body is smaller than the minimum requirements for a bodied vehicle, if it meets the panel requirements the rig is still classified as bodiless.

Originally Posted by rules

Hood, roof and side panels must be separate pieces of solid material
installed onto the bodiless vehicle frame. All body panels are to be separate pieces from the
complete structural frame.

What the rule is getting at is that the panels can't be a part of the structure. Such as a brazed in panel or part of a machined cutout.

[Kamikaze]

Originally Posted by Grizzly4x4

What the rule is getting at is that the panels can't be a part of the structure. Such as a brazed in panel or part of a machined cutout.

Wait.... I have been running brazed in panals on the copperhead for years......although I don't think .004" shim stock is a supporting structure.

[Grizzly4x4]

Originally Posted by Kamikaze

Wait.... I have been running brazed in panals on the copperhead for years......although I don't think .004" shim stock is a supporting structure.

Me either.
But you would have to cover them with a separate panel now. Just some thin Lexan would do the trick.

[Kamikaze]

Originally Posted by Grizzly4x4

Me either.
But you would have to cover them with a separate panel now. Just some thin Lexan would do the trick.

So what I have now isn't a legal truck??

[WKKILLER]

Kamikaza,

I think you have a legal rig. Your side panels, roof and hood are seperate pieces. They are just attached very good, brazed. It says must be solidly installed. The material you used is different then the body is made out of. PS I like what you have been doing with the tires.

"Hood, roof and side panels must be separate pieces of solid material
installed onto the bodiless vehicle frame. All body panels are to be separate pieces from the
complete structural frame. Body panels must be solidly installed in a manner that is
representative of a 1:1 vehicle."

[rckjeep]

I don't understand what is so damn complicated about this rule. It's pretty simple. It's the chassis that is the key not the body or panels. The chassis determines the body rules. Is there some part I am missing?

[Fishmaxx]

Originally Posted by WKKILLER

Kamikaza,

I think you have a legal rig. Your side panels, roof and hood are seperate pieces. They are just attached very good, brazed. It says must be solidly installed. The material you used is different then the body is made out of. PS I like what you have been doing with the tires.

"Hood, roof and side panels must be separate pieces of solid material
installed onto the bodiless vehicle frame. All body panels are to be separate pieces from the
complete structural frame. Body panels must be solidly installed in a manner that is
representative of a 1:1 vehicle."

Ditto