Gate Marker

[Fishmaxx]

Gate Marker: (10 pts) points are given when 4 wheels do not travel between gate markers or any part of the vehicle or driver touches a gate marker. Once a gate marker has been touched, no more penalties will be given for that gate marker.

(See page 4 for Gate Marker and Gate Clearing explanations.)



(Page 4 Text)

Gate Marker penalty and the Clearing of a Gate:
• A gate is considered cleared when one or more wheels from each axle passes between two gate markers. A Vehicle may travel through a gate while it is in reverse and still clear that gate (reverse penalty(s) will be assessed as necessary).

(Example 1) If all four wheels of a vehicle passes between two gate markers that gate is considered a cleared gate with no penalties and a gate progress bonus is awarded.

(Example 2) If one wheel from the front axle and one wheel from the rear axle passes between two gate markers (vehicle straddles a gate), that gate is considered a cleared gate. This however will result in a Gate Marker penalty of 10 points.

(Example 3) If one wheel only from the front axle or one wheel only from the rear axle passes between two gate markers (vehicle straddles a gate) that gate is not considered a cleared gate. This will result in a Gate Marker penalty of 10 points.

• At any time a gate marker is touched by a vehicle or by a driver, or when the vertical plane of a gate marker is breeched by the wheel/axle, a Gate Marker penalty is assessed and that gate is deemed “touched”.

• At any time a wheel does not pass between gate markers (i.e. straddles a gate marker) a Gate Penalty is assessed.

• Driver can only continue with the stage when a gate is cleared or 20 pts at that gate is accumulated.

[4RnrRick]

Is there any definitions or examples to the rules for say driving around the gate or having one tire pass between the gate markers and then reversing through the gate with 2 or more tires and back forward to clear the gate so you can go to the next gate for that course??

I hope that makes sense in what I'm asking......

Currently ORCRC is not using these rules since our current scoring method is just the opposite (most points wins) and it was decided to keep with our current rules through the end of the season. But there is some discussion of switching to these standardized rules for the '06 season. Anyways I don't have anyone I can ask locally about this is the reason why I'm posting it.

[kevinlongisland]

i believe you have found a loop-hole in the rules. If a gate does not have a boundary marker you could drive around it, reverse back into it, then go foward again to clear the gate.

[4RnrRick]

So how do you fix this loop hole?

[Fishmaxx]

4RnrRick, not sure I understand exactly, but there are reverse penalties and penalties for gate marker straddling. Course designer can also use chalk for boundary lines. Personally I like thinking outside the box, so its up to course designers not rules commitee to close the loop hole.

[Grizzly4x4]

Originally Posted by 4RnrRick

Is there any definitions or examples to the rules for say driving around the gate or having one tire pass between the gate markers and then reversing through the gate with 2 or more tires and back forward to clear the gate so you can go to the next gate for that course??

Within the rules there is nothing about "clearing the gates in the intended direction" or " entering the course where you exited, or following the course "flow".

So yes it would be ok to poke your two front tires through the gate, find a path around the gate, back your rear tires through the gate and continue on the course with only a reverse penalty. Hell, you dont even have to clear the first gate first. Drive to the last gate and clear them all in the opposite direction then go cross the finish gate.

So it should be asked if the event coordinators want the rules to cover this or if they want to address this on their own using boundaries and such like Fishy said.

In CO we tell people they must follow the intended course flow and enter the course where they exited. Despite the lack of boundary markers and such.

[SlinkySam]

Originally Posted by Grizzly4x4

In CO we tell people they must follow the intended course flow

EXACTLY

It almost seems silly that people would actually think of a way to defy the intent of the course, but I guess people think of these things. I say "almost" because we actually did something like this at a real 1:1 event. We even asked the judge and he couldn't find a reason for us not to be able to do what we wanted to do. It's all about taking the rules and doing everything in your ability to go to the limit of the rules and find ways to be one up on the next person. That's competition I guess. However, because of this thinking, that is why the rules have to constantly be monitored and revised as people sneak in new ways to top the competition.

Regardless, it does seem like an obvious unspoken rule, so that is why I agree with Grizzly's view. I think if you tried that here in Nor-Cal, you would get slapped up side the head and given a wedgie for trying something so blatent.

-Sam

[kevinlongisland]

I think the rules should cover every possible contingency we run across, plain and simple. NO LOOP HOLES. And to do that we wouldn't have to add very much more, maybe half a page. Deal with situations when they come up, note them, then make sure they get taken care of in the rules. Every comp we run we come across things that are not explained in the rules. But for veterans we know how to handle it. We shouldn't have to rely on that though. just my opinion.

[Grizzly4x4]

Originally Posted by kevinlongisland

I think the rules should cover every possible contingency we run across, plain and simple. NO LOOP HOLES. And to do that we wouldn't have to add very much more, maybe half a page. Deal with situations when they come up, note them, then make sure they get taken care of in the rules. Every comp we run we come across things that are not explained in the rules. But for veterans we know how to handle it. We shouldn't have to rely on that though. just my opinion.

I agree, I think we should address it.

[PinchFlat]

Well let's open this up in the rules committe for discusion... Fishmaxx lets figure out how to deal with this. I know we (Fishmaxx, Grizzly4x4 and me) talked a little about it this weekend. Lets get it in the rules.

[jason]

UROC says the first time you go through a set of gates, you must do so in the intended direction of the course flow.

I know I usually try to mark an arrow near each set of gates to show people the direction to go.

[4RnrRick]

Originally Posted by jason

....the first time you go through a set of gates, you must do so in the intended direction of the course flow....

Thats some nice verbage to explain it!

[4RnrRick]

Just found another stupid question.....

if I touch one gate marker (say right side) on my way through a gate say with the right tire. and then later on in the course I roll the RC and end up touching the other gate marker (left side) do I get a penalty for the left gate marker? Basically is that first gate marker dead or the pair of them???

[PinchFlat]

Originally Posted by 4RnrRick

Just found another stupid question.....

if I touch one gate marker (say right side) on my way through a gate say with the right tire. and then later on in the course I roll the RC and end up touching the other gate marker (left side) do I get a penalty for the left gate marker? Basically is that first gate marker dead or the pair of them???

Yes you get a penalty for the left one also. A gate marker is not a gate. Only the actual gate marker is dead when it is hit not the entire gate.

[4RnrRick]

cool...

[Grizzly4x4]

I also like the UROC wording about; if 3 or more tires pass outside of the gate it is considered bypassed. That helps keep people from driving around them.


I think we can fix this pretty easily, at least until someone reads between the lines again.

[chafey]

ill try

[jason]

Originally Posted by Grizzly4x4

I also like the UROC wording about; if 3 or more tires pass outside of the gate it is considered bypassed. That helps keep people from driving around them.

UROC states you are not bypassed until you break the plane of the next set of gates.

So basically I can go around the first set of gates totally passing them. Then before I get to the second set of gates I can reverse all the way back out, go through the first set as I am supposed to, and besides getting 1 reverse penalty I am fine.

[Grizzly4x4]

Originally Posted by jason

UROC states you are not bypassed until you break the plane of the next set of gates.

So basically I can go around the first set of gates totally passing them. Then before I get to the second set of gates I can reverse all the way back out, go through the first set as I am supposed to, and besides getting 1 reverse penalty I am fine.

But then aren't you going against the course flow by not entering where you exited?