Clarification Needed Please

[HomerJ]

At our comp today, we had a guy that had gotten a long smallish branch stuck in his rig, and was dragging it along. He took a step forward and stepped on the stick while still driving his rig to remove it, which actually impeded his forward movement for a second or two. It was my understanding that this is considered a touch penalty, he disagreed. Rather than bash our brains in debating it, I figured I'd ask here instead. So, is debris caught in a vehicle considered "part" of that vehicle for the time it it there? To remove it, should an on course repair be taken, or off if necessary?

[4xFord]

So he touched the twig with his foot but didn't touch the truck?

Originally Posted by Fishmaxx

I let drivers pull out leaves, vines, and yes fishing line without penelty as long as the don't touch or move their vehicle. Most of the time those items are picked up while the driver is off the intended line of the course, and bad stuff happens when you are off course

[PROTOTYPE]

i have not been to nats , but this might be considered a touch there. remember at a club level anything is legal as long as the drivers are aware that once at nats rules and laws are pushed as they read. But its still up to the judges discrection on either level.

I agree that as along as you dont push or move or touch the crawler all is legal.

[jfraymond]

sounds to me as he got entangled in part of the course and then broke free of the entaglement at some point. per the current rule set their is nothing against where you can or cannot step on the course as long as you donot come into contact with the truck itself. IMHO as long as his stepping on the stick didnt "alter" the course as it was at the time of contact then you should have continued as it was.

[HomerJ]

Correct, he did not ever touch the truck. But one thing I was wondering is when he stepped on the stick, it stopped his truck from going forward. I.E. he was in motion on flat ground, stepped on the stick, truck stopped with tires spinning forward. This is interfering with the truck obviously, so what about that variable?

[Reflection]

We allow guys to remove sticks,leaves,grass or anything that might get bound up in the drivetrain. If it's bound up in a knuckle or something,I really see no harm in HOLDING the truck down,so it won't move,then removing the debris. As a local club,you can make that judgment call as your club sees fit.

When he stepped on the stick,did it change the direction of the truck,or just stop it for a second? Hard to say without being there,I'd say most guys in ETRC would let it slide. We aren't rule Nazi's though.

[HomerJ]

It basically walked side to side when he did. Maybe a total side travel of .5"-.75". Yeah, we aren't hardcore as others about the rules either, we will enforce them, but there are always those little exceptions, this one is just an example haha. Thanks for the input everybody!

[JIA's Dad]

I did it!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I was on flat ground ran over a twig on the course, rather than stopping and making a big deal out of it, I just stepped on the stick and drove off of it. Never touched the truck but did spin getting the stick out. The big point here is it was before the last gate (hardest one) and I had to get it out. No way was I going up the gate with the stick and didn't, even without it.
But looking back I did make the gate enough to clear the gate for progress and should have backed out and went around the incline in front of the gate like others did that followed me and saw my mistake. Then I would have finished better than I did. Maybe 2nd or third?? But if you want to add the 10 points I still finish in the same place 5th with a score of 37. Most allow for removing junk that should not have been laying on the course in the first place, It's not like it was a growing vine or bush. Just a scrap stick on the course that went between the axle, link and shock. I didn't see it as a big deal, but we are a new club looking to do things right. Thanks for everyone's replies!!!

[dpdsurf]

If I were judging, I would have called a vehicle touch. The stick was a course hazzard that all drivers prior to your run had to deal with.

3.11 -

No modification to the course is allowed by the driver. This includes, but not limited to, removing of rocks,

stacking of rocks, purging a puddle of water, removing of vegetation, or other types of modifications.

[HomerJ]

Yeah JIA's Dad, that's why I brought it here, to get clarification on it without you and I working it out as we saw fit because I think that would have wound up going in circles haha I'm not changing the ruling on the course though, I'm leaving it as we called it

[Reflection]

Originally Posted by JIA's Dad

I did it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

So your "that guy"

Just playin Warren:-P

[JIA's Dad]

Originally Posted by dpdsurf

If I were judging, I would have called a vehicle touch. The stick was a course hazzard that all drivers prior to your run had to deal with.


3.11 -

No modification to the course is allowed by the driver. This includes, but not limited to, removing of rocks,
stacking of rocks, purging a puddle of water, removing of vegetation, or other types of modifications.

I agree if it were a growing plant which is the meaning of vegetation. This was a dead stick. And I didn't remove the stick form the course just from my truck.

[Fishmaxx]

[QUOTE =Originally Posted by Fishmaxx]
I let drivers pull out leaves, vines, and yes fishing line without penelty as long as the don't touch or move their vehicle. Most of the time those items are picked up while the driver is off the intended line of the course, and bad stuff happens when you are off course[/QUOTE]

Originally Posted by JIA's Dad

I agree if it were a growing plant which is the meaning of vegetation. This was a dead stick. And I didn't remove the stick form the course just from my truck.
[/LEFT]

Yep ....I'll "STICK" to my original statement

To be safe as a competitor I would always ASK the judge before doing anything like that to make sure you and him are on the same page. If time is an issue you can always call a time out

[Just Zach]

I think the key is ask the judge first. If I was the judge and he asked me I would have taken it out for him, no penalties. If he stepped on it to get it out without asking I would have given him a touch and of course a reposition back to the last gate.

[Robb]

Originally Posted by raptorman57

We allow guys to remove sticks,leaves,grass or anything that might get bound up in the drivetrain. If it's bound up in a knuckle or something,I really see no harm in HOLDING the truck down,so it won't move,then removing the debris. As a local club,you can make that judgment call as your club sees fit.

We also allow it at our local club. We usually have someone on the course, that isn't the driver, hold the truck still and remove whatever is bound up in there.

[RXcrawler]

Originally Posted by raptorman57

We allow guys to remove sticks,leaves,grass or anything that might get bound up in the drivetrain. If it's bound up in a knuckle or something,I really see no harm in HOLDING the truck down,so it won't move,then removing the debris. As a local club,you can make that judgment call as your club sees fit.

When he stepped on the stick,did it change the direction of the truck,or just stop it for a second? Hard to say without being there,I'd say most guys in ETRC would let it slide. We aren't rule Nazi's though.

X2. I as a judge have actually removed sticks form trucks at my house. It not that big of a deal.

[Badd]

As other have said Ask the Judge
As long as the Judge gives everyone the same treatment all is fine .