Winching a truck down during your run

[jason]

Sorry to bring up the rules thing again guys, however here I go!

The rule states:

• The vehicle must finish a course in the same wheelbase, track width, ride height, and tires it started that course with.

That rule just states it must start and finish in the same configuration, it doesn't say what can or cannot happen between the start and finish gates.

Here in Colorado we had an adjustable wheelbase rig, he would just start the course and finish the course with it in the same spot, and in between he could do whatever he wanted ;)

[Fishmaxx]

And 2 lines further down in the rules it states:

• Drivers may make changes to wheelbase, track width, ride height, and tires between course
runs.


Admittedly there is a little wiggle room, but I believe the intent of the rules prohibit its use.

[TwistedCreations]

Jason, sorry to move your post here, but from looking at that thread, there seems to be alot of talk about this and was wondering myself.

Last time we went to the SERCRC GR2 bash, Billy was going to run his clod that has the same ordeal. When at full ride height, his WB is like 11.5", when completely sucked down, it is 12.5"... He was told he wasn't allowed to use it, do to the fact of what Fish pointed out in the rules. But we got the same insight as what you stated.. both rules are contridicting... once has the gray area that you can do it, then 2 lines down, it says you can't....

[DISTURBIN' tha PEACE]

Originally Posted by Fishmaxx

And 2 lines further down in the rules it states:

• Drivers may make changes to wheelbase, track width, ride height, and tires between course
runs.


Admittedly there is a little wiggle room, but I believe the intent of the rules prohibit its use.

The wiggle room is that it doesn't say you can't. It only needs two words changed.

• Drivers may not make changes to wheelbase, track width, ride height, and tires during course runs.

[TwistedCreations]

I really don't even remember that last line being on there until later this year.. I know it says it was last updated on 3-11.. still seems like it was added in later during this year.. got me

[jason]

When I read the rules I see nothing that says you cannot change ride height, wheelbase, trackwidth, or tires during a run. However if you touched the vehicle to do any of those a penalty would occur.

The first rule says it must be the same when you finish as it was when you started, the second rule says you are free to change those things between courses.

I would score it as like this:

Fishmaxx pulls up to the line with his new ultra cool adjustable wheelbase rig. I'd ask him to put it all the way one way or the other, either long or short. When he got to the finish line I wouldn't stop the clock until it was back to the same position as when he started. If he ran out of time he would get a 40. If he had to touch it to adjust the wheelbase back to where it was he would get that penalty.

[Fishmaxx]

Not sure of the exact date, but it was brought to the Committee's attention early this season. Based on the original discussion in committee over a year ago it was clear that such vehicles changes should not be allowed. It was only the way it was written that was vague. I will take part of the blame for the language as written being vague, but I will assure the committees opinion was not.

[jason]

When reading rules, the ink is black and white, there is no grey ;)

If the rules committee doesn't want to allow things like this they need to just come out and say it, I read the rules just how they are written.

[Fishmaxx]

Originally Posted by jason

When reading rules, the ink is black and white, there is no grey ;)

If the rules committee doesn't want to allow things like this they need to just come out and say it, I read the rules just how they are written.

I agree, but its hard to condense several pages of disscussion into a perfectly written rule. As DTP pointed we were off by 2 words. If we had done what he suggested then the 2nd line wouldn't even be nessasary. It seems half the people want simple fun rules, and the other have is looking for away around them. Its has been very challenging to create rules that cover every possible senerio, and keep them some what simple.

I guess my point was the rule was disscussed in committee on 04/2005, and that it seemed clear what the committee wanted. The rule was just poorly written.

[Unholy]

Here is my one complaint about ride height/wheelbase being adjustable.

In 2.2, what if some one has there trucked jacked up to make the 12.5" wheelbase rule, then lowers it to have a 14" wheelbase with a great center of gravity while competing? Then jack it back up to finish. They'd be within the rules as they stand. Same with adjustable wheelbase.

Though it does appear you meant to make it illegal anyway.

[4stAir]

look guys i was wondering about this also.... my thought is that adjustable wheelbase should be illegal, because i have yet to ever see that in 1:1 crawling.
however, every single pro level 1:1 rig runs a winch on the front end and hooks it to the axle to suck the front end down.... i think if you are doing this with a servo actuated system it should be legal..... hell if you want to hook that servo to both axles more power to you as long as you cross the start and finish with it in the same position you started in....

[roadblock]

i personally think that u have to try to get around
the rules to make progress, ingenuity is wonderful.
i agree it should be banned, or moved to it's own class..

[syco133]

Originally Posted by Unholy

Here is my one complaint about ride height/wheelbase being adjustable.

In 2.2, what if some one has there trucked jacked up to make the 12.5" wheelbase rule, then lowers it to have a 14" wheelbase with a great center of gravity while competing? Then jack it back up to finish. They'd be within the rules as they stand. Same with adjustable wheelbase.

Though it does appear you meant to make it illegal anyway.

Well if you think about it he couldnt do it anyway the rules state a MAXIMUM of 12.5 inch wheelbase so if it were to go over that he would be DQ'ed

[Highmark]

Originally Posted by Unholy

Here is my one complaint about ride height/wheelbase being adjustable.

In 2.2, what if some one has there trucked jacked up to make the 12.5" wheelbase rule, then lowers it to have a 14" wheelbase with a great center of gravity while competing? Then jack it back up to finish. They'd be within the rules as they stand. Same with adjustable wheelbase.

Though it does appear you meant to make it illegal anyway.

Have you read the rules?

Vehicle wheelbase is a maximum 12.5 inches.

[4stAir]

Originally Posted by syco133

Well if you think about it he couldnt do it anyway the rules state a MAXIMUM of 12.5 inch wheelbase so if it were to go over that he would be DQ'ed

if you use it for that purpose it would be a pretty extreme setup.... i am planning on running it on the front of my 2.2 to help with climbs.... if you winch the front down to keep you from rolling backwards on climbs, that would be the most practical usage of the system, thats why they do it on 1:1 rigs.

[syco133]

Originally Posted by 4stAir

if you use it for that purpose it would be a pretty extreme setup.... i am planning on running it on the front of my 2.2 to help with climbs.... if you winch the front down to keep you from rolling backwards on climbs, that would be the most practical usage of the system, thats why they do it on 1:1 rigs.

HA I own all you ho's US torison guys dont have to worry about winching down its allready as low as it will get

[4stAir]

Originally Posted by syco133

HA I own all you ho's US torison guys dont have to worry about winching down its allready as low as it will get

yeah but that setup is so unpredictable and tough to make work on a rig... i can do the same thing just by limiting my shock travel... if it worked as well as everyone thinks we would all be running it.

[dezfan]

Originally Posted by 4stAir

yeah but that setup is so unpredictable and tough to make work on a rig... i can do the same thing just by limiting my shock travel... if it worked as well as everyone thinks we would all be running it.

Unpredictable? One of the things I like about my PC chassis is how predictable it is?

[4stAir]

Originally Posted by dezfan

Unpredictable? One of the things I like about my PC chassis is how predictable it is?

thats a clod though.... the only thing wrong with them is the lack of clearance under the diffs on a 2.2

[Highmark]

Have you ever built, and or driven a torsion TLT?