Innovation or Over Board?

[Fishmaxx]

Realized I was Hijacking JRH winching thread so here we go.....

I read the rules, and it says nothing about lassoing, so I started practicing my lassoing skills this afternoon. Eventually a rule would be made against though cause cowboys are sure to have an advantage, and the Colorado boys would be pissed if some freaking cowboy won Nationals

[Fishmaxx]

Just got this PM

Originally Posted by Kamikaze

Hey,
I didn't feel like starting a thread just to ask a question so I will just ask you since you seem to be the rule guru. On my new 2.2 clod I was thinking about mounting the front shocks to a 1/4 scale servo, one on each side of a 3 inch double sided horn, so that I can make the front end articulate. Now as I understand it the rules do not allow a ride height change, but this setup would not change the ride height as the horn pivots on the servo and as one shock is raised the other on is lowerd making it imposible for the ride height of the vehicle to change.
With all that said I will have to build the tube chassy to acomidate a servo and I don't want to do all the work just to show up 3 hours from home and be told that it is illegal, though I don't see why it would be.
So what do you think??

I am guessing this is also ok as long as his wheelbase dosn't exceed 12.5"

[jason]

Originally Posted by Fishmaxx

Realized I was Hijacking JRH winching thread so here we go.....

I read the rules, and it says nothing about lassoing, so I started practicing my lassoing skills this afternoon. Eventually a rule would be made against though cause cowboys are sure to have an advantage, and the Colorado boys would be pissed if some freaking cowboy won Nationals

Go ahead get good with lassoing, you get the same penalty as the guy that just walks up and moves his crawler.

Reposition: (10 pts) points are given when a driver must reposition their vehicle in order to continue. Repositions
are placed back on the course without making forward progress. Judges reposition the vehicle.

The rule states you get a 10 point penalty if you reposition the vehicle. It does not say how you reposition it, just if you do, you get a penalty. Move it with salad tongs and a pink vibrator for all I care.

[xjman]

I think if you attempt to touch your rig in any way you should get points.

As for Kamikaze, that is just a version of forced artic, there is no reason why it shouldnt be alowed.

Beat me to the punch Jason.

Also, if someone actually moved their crawler with a "pink vibrator" I would be laughing so hard I couldnt issue points.

[Fishmaxx]

I still say it says nothing specifically about lassoing, and if I didn't actually reposition the truck it should be ok

What if I hooked the pink vibrators on/off switch to a servo. Then vibrated the truck out of trouble.

[xjman]

Then I would assume your old lady might get kind of irate you stole her friend.

[JasonInAugusta]

Originally Posted by Fishmaxx

Realized I was Hijacking JRH winching thread so here we go.....

I read the rules, and it says nothing about lassoing, so I started practicing my lassoing skills this afternoon. Eventually a rule would be made against though cause cowboys are sure to have an advantage, and the Colorado boys would be pissed if some freaking cowboy won Nationals

Originally Posted by Fishmaxx

I still say it says nothing specifically about lassoing, and if I didn't actually reposition the truck it should be ok

What if I hooked the pink vibrators on/off switch to a servo. Then vibrated the truck out of trouble.

[jason]

Originally Posted by Fishmaxx

I still say it says nothing specifically about lassoing, and if I didn't actually reposition the truck it should be ok

What if I hooked the pink vibrators on/off switch to a servo. Then vibrated the truck out of trouble.

Some people try way to hard.






If everyone would like I can hire a lawyer and we can write a rule book that's as thick as a dictionary and covers every possible situation. Then on comp day we can all spend all day reading the rule book, because the sun will be gone by the time we're done.


Sometimes a little common sense goes a long way. Thats the bad thing about this place sometimes, common sense isn't very common

[xjman]

Originally Posted by jason

Some people try way to hard.






If everyone would like I can hire a lawyer and we can write a rule book that's as thick as a dictionary and covers every possible situation. Then on comp day we can all spend all day reading the rule book, because the sun will be gone by the time we're done.


Sometimes a little common sense goes a long way. Thats the bad thing about this place sometimes, common sense isn't very common

Sad but true. Half the fun of competing is building a rig around the rules. It gives you guidelines to meet, and expectations to exceed. People have already found feasable ways to overcome the rear steer limitations on 2.2. I'm sure that with a little brain power we could come up with new, better alternitives to whats out there.

Maybe we could get Zimm to write the rule book.

[Kamikaze]

Originally Posted by xjman

Sad but true. Half the fun of competing is building a rig around the rules. It gives you guidelines to meet, and expectations to exceed. People have already found feasable ways to overcome the rear steer limitations on 2.2. I'm sure that with a little brain power we could come up with new, better alternitives to whats out there.

Maybe we could get Zimm to write the rule book.

I agree, I think I enjoy building them more than I do driving them.

[Highmark]

Originally Posted by Fishmaxx

I still say it says nothing specifically about lassoing, and if I didn't actually reposition the truck it should be ok

What if I hooked the pink vibrators on/off switch to a servo. Then vibrated the truck out of trouble.

Hu? :?

That's almost as bad as saying it would be legel to flip a truck over using a stick becuase you technically wouldn't be touching the truck.

Wtf where you thinking about when you typed this?

[Fishmaxx]

Originally Posted by jason

If everyone would like I can hire a lawyer and we can write a rule book that's as thick as a dictionary and covers every possible situation. Then on comp day we can all spend all day reading the rule book, because the sun will be gone by the time we're done.

Sometimes a little common sense goes a long way. Thats the bad thing about this place sometimes, common sense isn't very common

Thats kind of been my point
It seems for some the rules we have are not good enough, and are constently looking for loopholes, flaws and ommissions. Instead of using common sense

[andy b.]

Originally Posted by Fishmaxx

Thats kind of been my point
It seems for some the rules we have are not good enough, and are constently looking for loopholes, flaws and ommissions. Instead of using common sense

i've been reading all the rules threads and notice it is just like any sport. you will have folks that just want to get together for fun, and folks that will do anything to win (even if they don't actually win anything). you will never come up with a set of rules to eliminate all the loopholes, and the "common sense" rule will always be overridden with "it doesn't specifically state that in the rules". don't get me wrong, the folks looking for loopholes will be the innovators and constantly strive to advance the sport. the rule-writers just need to realize that the innovators will basically gravitate towards a type of "super unlimited" class.

i definitely would not want to be in the rule-writers or enforcers shoes.

andy b.

[Fishmaxx]

andy b. .................You are the MAN

People that are far smarter than us can't get the laws that govern our country perfect. Thats why we have The Supreme Court

Earlier I sited "The Rules of Golf" as an example. Its almost 100 pages, and been been worked on for over a 100 years. In a recent tournament Tiger Woods asked if a 400 lb boulder was a loose inpediment. (usally thats a pine cone, stick etc thats laying on the ground that interfers with the golf swing) This boulder was on top of the ground, and not imbedded. The on course judge deemed technically it was a loose impediment, so Tiger got 3-4 guys from the crowd to move the rock. Did the golf rules people ever atticipate this? No
Did they make a rule against it? Yes

Sadly it looks the Rules of Rock Crawling is going to be 10-15 pages very soon, but hopefully we will get a few more classes along the way that way innovators can have a class and drivers can have a classs. Then indidviduals can decide what they want to do not a bunch of Gurus

[Fishmaxx]

Originally Posted by jason

Go ahead get good with lassoing, you get the same penalty as the guy that just walks up and moves his crawler.


The rule states you get a 10 point penalty if you reposition the vehicle. It does not say how you reposition it......

Originally Posted by TwistedCreations

You can lasso anything you want, but lassoing something then putting the rope on the truck would be a touch penalty

WELL .........which one is it?

To those who haven't figured it by now I am using extremely silly examples to show you have to have a little common sense, or as Jason point out we will have Rules that will take hours to read, and lawyers to interpret.

[jason]

Originally Posted by Fishmaxx

WELL .........which one is it?

We were both right, I said if you lasso it and move it you get a reposition penalty.

TC said if you lasso it you get a touch penalty. He never said you moved it, just lassoed it.

[freetimecrawler]

Originally Posted by jason

Some people try way to hard.






If everyone would like I can hire a lawyer and we can write a rule book that's as thick as a dictionary and covers every possible situation. Then on comp day we can all spend all day reading the rule book, because the sun will be gone by the time we're done.


Sometimes a little common sense goes a long way. Thats the bad thing about this place sometimes, common sense isn't very common

I always wondered why it's called common sense when it's so uncommon
Personally, I'd rather have an ounce of common sense then a pound of book smarts.

[todd1803]

This is the funniest thread I've seen in a while!

But the message is still there. It is really difficult to define the difference between exploiting a loophole and innovative thinking. Personally I think the spirit of the rules needs to be taken into account. For some issues, like adjustable wheelbase and using a lasso to reposition your truck, the answer is realatively obvious. For others, like adding a winch to cinch down the front suspension during a run, the the answers are not as clear cut. Is this being innovative, and getting all you can from your truck within the rules, or an attempt to exploit a loophole?

[RXcrawler]

I have not written any rules nor do I want to. But The rules don't have to be 15 pages long; they just have to be simple and clear. Don't make them wordy just Keep it Simple. KISS

Instead of saying "The vehicle must finish a course in the same wheelbase, track width, ride height, and tires it started that course with." Say "A vehicle can't change wheelbase, track width, ride height, and tires during the course of a run."

I know this is just one example, and it may not be that easy for other rules. But if the rules are written more "black and white" there won't be as many "gray" areas. I'm not saying the rules are poorly written or that I could do any better, thats just 2 cents take it for whats it worth.

I think we are making this much harder that it has to be.

[Nicklepimp]

Ironically, I had this sent to me just the other day. I thought you guys might enjoy it.

Obituary of the late Mr. Common Sense


Today we mourn the passing of a beloved old friend, Common Sense, who has been with us for many years. No one knows for sure how old he was, since his birth records were long ago lost in bureaucratic red tape. He will be remembered as having cultivated such valuable lessons as:
Knowing when to come in out of the rain; Why the early bird gets the worm; Life isn't always fair; and Maybe it was my fault.


Common Sense lived by simple, sound financial policies (don't spend more than you can earn) and reliable strategies (adults, not children, are in charge).


His health began to deteriorate rapidly when well-intentioned but overbearing regulations were set in place. Reports of a 6 -year-old boy charged with sexual harassment for kissing a classmate; teens suspended from school for using mouthwash after lunch; and a teacher fired for reprimanding an unruly student, only worsened his condition.


Common Sense lost ground when parents attacked teachers for doing the job that they themselves had failed to do in disciplining their unruly children. It declined even further when schools were required to get parental consent to administer Calpol, sun lotion or a band-aid to a student; but could not inform parents when a student became pregnant and wanted to have an abortion.

Common Sense lost the will to live as the Ten Commandments became contraband; churches became businesses; and criminals received better treatment than their victims.

Common Sense took a beating when you couldn't defend yourself from a burglar in your own home and the burglar could sue you for assault.

Common Sense finally gave up the will to live, after a woman failed to realize that a steaming cup of coffee was hot. She spilled a little in her lap, and was promptly awarded a huge settlement. Common Sense was preceded in death by his parents, Truth and Trust; his wife, Discretion; his daughter, Responsibility; and his son, Reason.

He is survived by his 3 stepbrothers; I Know My Rights, Someone Else Is To Blame, and I'm A Victim.


Not many attended his funeral because so few realized he was gone. If you still remember him, pass this on. If not, join the majority and do nothing.