2014 scale rules discussion or question thead

[801RYAN]

Would you still call it if the stick or vine was stepped on to get it out without touching the rig?

[801RYAN]

Hotwheels I see your point. but my question was if you didn't touch the rig to remove it

[hotwheels000]

Yes !!!!!!! The vine or stick is now part of your truck just like the antenna or winch cable. The exception I make to a call would be if said obstruction where to hit a gate. I would not call a gate penalty for that. I would guess some would call that a double standard, I like to call it sportsmanship.

[hotwheels000]

Originally Posted by 801RYAN

Hotwheels I see your point. but my question was if you didn't touch the rig to remove it

Sorry I missed that part, but it is no different than throwing rocks at your rig at that point.....You didn't touch it, right. You are still modifying the attitude of the rig.... Does that sound fair ?

[hotwheels000]

By the way, I think it is a great question

[801RYAN]

Ok thanks.. I also hope to be judging at the swsc so thanks for your input!

[War Pig]

Here's my issue with that.

Poor course design and execution shouldn't effect one driver more than others. Say somebody built a course through some vines and the first 10 guys got all wadded up in them but later on the last 10 guys didn't (because they were all gone and torn out) is that fair? How about sticks? I suppose this is a great question that we need to discuss before April. Thanks!

[doublej]

ECSC was a very wooded area, John asked us as judges to stop time and pull Vines off axles of rigs to keep people from snapping shafts.
So I guess some of it comes down to the comp Host and judges. The courses were very well groomed and setup but things still happen.
The biggest point would be for the judges to consistent and the Host to try and build the courses to stay consistent.

[hotwheels000]

Originally Posted by War Pig

Here's my issue with that.

Poor course design and execution shouldn't effect one driver more than others. Say somebody built a course through some vines and the first 10 guys got all wadded up in them but later on the last 10 guys didn't (because they were all gone and torn out) is that fair? How about sticks? I suppose this is a great question that we need to discuss before April. Thanks!

You and I have built a ton of courses, we have even built them together in the past. Discussions were had as the course was being built to alleviate these issues and others like will the coarse hold up to 30 trucks or whatever the case is.

If a course is traversing terrain that will cause a issue it should either be cleared or a different route chosen for the course. There are multiple people looking at courses...designers, judges, competetors, marshals... I have asked for a course change before folks run even when I wasn't involved in design. Everybody should have that option.

I will say, if a stick or other object is dragged, kicked, or knocked onto the course it should be removed/placed back in the area it came from. I know I have seen courses intentionally designed to catch a driver off guard, ie: do I run thru the thicket, vines, twigs or look around and find the ideal route. To me that will decide who is a better driver and it is FUN as a course designer to make the drivers think.

I always tell the drivers when they ask if they can pull the stuff from there axles "you drove into it didn't you" so why should the guy that didn't drive into it not be rewarded (by no penalty, like the other driver should receive for removing said junk) when they drove "smarter". I tell my kids to be responsible for their actions, we are nothing but big kids right ?

Sounds a little rough for just playing with toy trucks I know, but we are having a competition and those little mistakes make a difference at the end of the day. Then we can all laugh and bullchit about how, what, when and where and enjoy the commodery and friendship that exists at these events
. AND, duct tape the course designer then push him down and kick him repeatedly

[801RYAN]

Originally Posted by hotwheels000

I always tell the drivers when they ask if they can pull the stuff from there axles "you drove into it didn't you" so why should the guy that didn't drive into it not be rewarded (by no penalty, like the other driver should receive for removing said junk) when they drove "smarter".

Great explanation! That is the wording I needed to hear..thanks again

[War Pig]

Originally Posted by hotwheels000

You and I have built a ton of courses, we have even built them together in the past. Discussions were had as the course was being built to alleviate these issues and others like will the coarse hold up to 30 trucks or whatever the case is.

If a course is traversing terrain that will cause a issue it should either be cleared or a different route chosen for the course. There are multiple people looking at courses...designers, judges, competetors, marshals... I have asked for a course change before folks run even when I wasn't involved in design. Everybody should have that option.

I will say, if a stick or other object is dragged, kicked, or knocked onto the course it should be removed/placed back in the area it came from. I know I have seen courses intentionally designed to catch a driver off guard, ie: do I run thru the thicket, vines, twigs or look around and find the ideal route. To me that will decide who is a better driver and it is FUN as a course designer to make the drivers think.

I always tell the drivers when they ask if they can pull the stuff from there axles "you drove into it didn't you" so why should the guy that didn't drive into it not be rewarded (by no penalty, like the other driver should receive for removing said junk) when they drove "smarter". I tell my kids to be responsible for their actions, we are nothing but big kids right ?

Sounds a little rough for just playing with toy trucks I know, but we are having a competition and those little mistakes make a difference at the end of the day. Then we can all laugh and bullchit about how, what, when and where and enjoy the commodery and friendship that exists at these events
. AND, duct tape the course designer then push him down and kick him repeatedly

Wow, you're a jerk

On a serious note, the way this will be handled should be discussed by the event marshal at the drivers meeting.

[hotwheels000]

I agree with both statements ^^^^ and I have been meaning to come back to this thread today and clarify exactly what you said along with the fact for those that don't know me....At our local comps when I am teching, I am the first to give out freebee points or throw grass, gravel or twigs in you truck to help the new folks get an understanding of the rules and just how user friendly they are. Same with on course driving, I will allow them to pull junk or maybe even take 1 or 10 free reverses to keep the fun factor up until they are on board with the program.

Bro hugs to you Tim

[markfw]

Does trimming the fenders on a jeep or fj40 front end count as "pinching the front"?

[Tomy]

Has this been discussed before?

Suppose someone uses a legal 1.9 tire for class 2 but mounts it on a 2.2 wheel, resulting in a larger than 4.75" tire OD when mounted on a wheel.

Is the tire/wheel combo legal?

[hotwheels000]

Originally Posted by Tomy

Has this been discussed before?

Suppose someone uses a legal 1.9 tire for class 2 but mounts it on a 2.2 wheel, resulting in a larger than 4.75" tire OD when mounted on a wheel.

Is the tire/wheel combo legal?

Yes, wheel size isnt dictated for any class, just max diameter of 2.2. Tires are by manufacures spec, so again if the tire is legal it is good to go. Overall hieght when measured with a device plays no part in the rule set.It allows people to use what they have available to them and encourages creativity.

[R2j]

Originally Posted by markfw

Does trimming the fenders on a jeep or fj40 front end count as "pinching the front"?

No, just means they are fenderless.

[Generis]

Hello, Tim and the Rules Crew!
I have a question/suggestion for the tire rules on Class 1.

First off, here's my rig in question:





Now, the reason I'm writing is about this type of situation with this truck. The body is scale in nature, and has very small wheel wells. The truck will point out just fine in Class 1, and meets all the legalities to compete in Class 1. But for the tires, which are 1.9 Rock Creepers, that are reduced to 1.55 rim, and therefore smaller diameter.

So, because I have these reduced diameter, scale looking, fine performing modified tires I can't run the truck in any Class at all. Does it really make any scale sense at all that if I put Prowlers on it and cut open the fenders massively to suit, that now the truck is legal to compete, but looks terrible?

Why should I be disqualified for shrinking a tire to suit scale on a Scale Competition? This truck can't be entered in any comps because of this single problem, and I'll sure never be cutting open the wheel wells to destroy the look and make it legal with a larger tire.

Is there any way to get this truck legal? My suggestion is that if the entry decides to use a reduced tire (and not tread swapping) then they take a 5 or even 10 point hit on the score, but they get to at least compete! I would have entered this truck as my Class 1 at ECSC, but there was no provision for my tire, and there's no un-reduced tires that will fit this body.

I sure wish I could run it.
Chris

[spacecase]

these wont fit?

Specifications:
Width 24mm / 0.94inch
Outer Diameter: 2.99" (76mm)
1.55 Wheel size

Dirt Grabber 1.55" All Terrain Tires

[spacecase]

cool looking truck by the way!

[Generis]

Thanks,
I had those tires on it, and they are way too small, plus have almost zero tread depth. They are great for trailers, that's all.