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[spacecase]

so what do the tires on the rig measure out at?

i would say maybe look into some 1/16 scale mini tires if those or something similar to the baja MTZ's @ 3.30" wont fit it.

just my 2 cents

[Generis]

Thanks for all the suggestions. I'm not looking for tire recommendations. I know there are uncut tires out there that are legal.
Back to my question for Tim etc:

Originally Posted by Generis

....Why should I be disqualified for shrinking a tire to suit scale on a Scale Competition? This truck can't be entered in any comps because of this single problem....
Is there any way to get THIS truck legal? My suggestion is that if the entry decides to use a reduced tire (and not tread swapping) then they take a 5 or even 10 point hit on the score.

Thanks

[spacecase]

there's no un-reduced tires that will fit this body.

my point is i see plenty. if a tire change will fix the problem, i dont see the problem.

no prob, i wont try to help. good luck

[War Pig]

Originally Posted by Generis

Hello, Tim and the Rules Crew!
I have a question/suggestion for the tire rules on Class 1.

First off, here's my rig in question:





Now, the reason I'm writing is about this type of situation with this truck. The body is scale in nature, and has very small wheel wells. The truck will point out just fine in Class 1, and meets all the legalities to compete in Class 1. But for the tires, which are 1.9 Rock Creepers, that are reduced to 1.55 rim, and therefore smaller diameter.

So, because I have these reduced diameter, scale looking, fine performing modified tires I can't run the truck in any Class at all. Does it really make any scale sense at all that if I put Prowlers on it and cut open the fenders massively to suit, that now the truck is legal to compete, but looks terrible?

Why should I be disqualified for shrinking a tire to suit scale on a Scale Competition? This truck can't be entered in any comps because of this single problem, and I'll sure never be cutting open the wheel wells to destroy the look and make it legal with a larger tire.

Is there any way to get this truck legal? My suggestion is that if the entry decides to use a reduced tire (and not tread swapping) then they take a 5 or even 10 point hit on the score, but they get to at least compete! I would have entered this truck as my Class 1 at ECSC, but there was no provision for my tire, and there's no un-reduced tires that will fit this body.

I sure wish I could run it.
Chris

Oh Chris.....the "no external tire mods" rule is there for simplicity. There are so many Class 1 tires made that you should be able to find one that not only is legal, but fits that truck. One of our main concerns with the SORRCA rules is keeping it simple and straight forward.....and saying "no external tire mods" leaves nothing to interpretation. Start adding things like "tire can be reduced but must start as a class 1 legal tire and must use original tread" gets to be a nightmare for tech and puts undue pressure on the event organizers. Please understand that we are catering to the majority and can't modify the rules for single cases. I really hope you can get some legal tires that fit because that is a sweet rig.

[Generis]

Originally Posted by spacecase

... baja MTZ's @ 3.30" ...

I may have to try these. This rig was built before those tires were available, and I think those might be the only option so far. Still a bit small though. It's a tough balance between wanting to keep the look and wanting to compete with it. Thanks for the input.

Originally Posted by War Pig

One of our main concerns with the SORRCA rules is keeping it simple and straight forward....I really hope you can get some legal tires that fit...

I agree on keeping it simple, but I had to ask. With tire mods allowed in other classes, I thought I had a fighting chance at this suggestion

I'll keep looking for tires, or use the other Class 1 rigs.

[RebelRacer]

This may be a dumb question and/or already answered somewhere that I can't find so I willing to take the flak from asking it but why in a "scale" event are we still being penalized for going in reverse? Isn't that more catered to the "comp crawler" scene? Just looking for an explanation on this as I'm fairly certain that in the 1:1 world there is no penalty for going in reverse. (Again I could be wrong about that as well)

[TURTLE]

Originally Posted by RebelRacer

This may be a dumb question and/or already answered somewhere that I can't find so I willing to take the flak from asking it but why in a "scale" event are we still being penalized for going in reverse? Isn't that more catered to the "comp crawler" scene? Just looking for an explanation on this as I'm fairly certain that in the 1:1 world there is no penalty for going in reverse. (Again I could be wrong about that as well)

This was taken from the W.E. Rock rules:

1.2: Reversal
One point is issued for a purposeful reversal to the competitor. A purposeful reversal or back up
is considered when a driver puts the vehicle in reverse and backs or pushes in the clutch and
rolls back, etc. A back is not counted when the obstacle pushes the vehicle back, unless an
advantage is gained during the process. A reverse in an attempt to save a rollover is considered
an infraction and will receive backing points. A backing penalty is also counted if a team uses a
“reverse burn”.
If a team starts the course in reverse, they will immediately receive one (1) point for backing and
everything will be judged as normal. If the team completes the course in reverse (never making a
change in direction), the point for reverse will be removed from the score.

These rules (or the root of them) stem from full size rules, so chances are most of the course rules have some background in the 1:1 world. Back in the day when I started doing this most of the guys came from a full sized background hence the similarities between to two.

Here is the link to the older W.E.Rock rules if you are curious about other similarities:
http://www.werocklive.com/forms/2009..._rule_book.pdf

[War Pig]

I'd like to add my comment to this as well. So basically with this being a competition, the point of it is to see who can take a given truck and drive through a 10 gate course with the least amount of penalties. Penalties are there to tell you when you picked a bad line, approached an obstacle incorrectly, made an incorrect assumption of your rigs capabilities etc. The reverse penalty is there to make you think about how you approach an obstacle, it allows you take a 1 point ding and try it again but also makes you have to make a decision about possibly using your winch, because those points start to add up. It also makes you think about upgrading your truck to improve your turning radius. Without the reverse penalty I think it just turns into a frenetic race. Hope this helps! Tim.

[sam63]

My one and only WEROCK event I think I used reverse more than 1st , and they counted every damn one! I pointed out or timed out on every course. What a rude awakening that was to the comp world. On the last course my sway bar broke and I flopped it over on its side....we promply righted the truck, loaded it on the trailer and called it a day.

[War Pig]

So you're saying you're a better RC driver than 1:1?

[MudHoncho]

Battle Bacon, lol I don't think using reverse makes it a bad line or assumption of an obstacle.... It would be true if the courses were proven that you can make it through the whole course with out any points but that's not so, there are times you damn near have to but it's 1 pt and move on

[sam63]

Originally Posted by MudHoncho

Battle Bacon, lol I don't think using reverse makes it a bad line or assumption of an obstacle.... It would be true if the courses were proven that you can make it through the whole course with out any points but that's not so, there are times you damn near have to but it's 1 pt and move on

Typically here in the great NW first and second place is decided by 1 point so I guess its all in how you look at it. Choosing the right line on the first try is most of the challenge. A lot of it has to do with course design and traction on that given day as to why a reverse or two may be needed by even the best drivers/cars. Just my .00002 cents

[sam63]

Originally Posted by War Pig

So you're saying you're a better RC driver than 1:1?

Pretty much sums it up! I always thought of myself as a decent 1:1 driver but that WEROCK in Goldendale I did was just stupid. Little Rich told me not to destroy the course or move the boulders around since I had the biggest truck they had ever seen run at one of their events. I found that cut 44" boggers and being atleast 2000 kbs heavier than the comp buggies put me at an ever so slight disadvantage.

[War Pig]

Originally Posted by sam63

Pretty much sums it up! I always thought of myself as a decent 1:1 driver but that WEROCK in Goldendale I did was just stupid. Little Rich told me not to destroy the course or move the boulders around since I had the biggest truck they had ever seen run at one of their events. I found that cut 44" boggers and being atleast 2000 kbs heavier than the comp buggies put me at an ever so slight disadvantage.

I bet it looked awesome though! Wish I'd have seen it.

[thurayt]

I have a couple class questions. I am building a rig that will use scx10 axles with 2.2 wheels and tires. The cab of the truck is going to be designed like a front discharge cement truck cab with a flatbed. The bed will be the width of the front fenders. Now for the questions. One, would this be considered a class 2 or class 3 vehicle? Where on the vehicle would I measure for the width of the body?

There have been some good question asked so far that has answered some questions that I have had.

[doublej]

The class of the rig would first be determined by the manufacture posted size of the tires?
So which tires are you running, are they modified in anyway?

And measure at the widest part of the front doors.

Hope that helps.

[thurayt]

The tires are IROK Super Swampers and they aren't modified. The cab is only a single seat design but the fenders will be attached to the cab. I'm not able to attach pictures but here is a link to give you an idea of what the cab will look like.

Terex FD3000 Mixer Features Improved Concrete Discharge | Story ID: 8592 | Construction Equipment Guide

[thurayt]

Also, I don't really understand this part of the class 3 body rule. "The body must be at least 5" wide from the front to the rear of the doors." Is this saying that from the from the front of the body to the back edge of the door it need to measure at least 5"?

[War Pig]

Originally Posted by thurayt

Also, I don't really understand this part of the class 3 body rule. "The body must be at least 5" wide from the front to the rear of the doors." Is this saying that from the from the front of the body to the back edge of the door it need to measure at least 5"?

Basically from the front of the doors to the rear of the doors (approximately a 2-3" long part of the body) must measure at least 5" wide.

Like DoubleJ said above, the class is determined by the diameter of the tire. Pretty much any 2.2 tire is going to be Class 3.

[thurayt]

Originally Posted by War Pig

Basically from the front of the doors to the rear of the doors (approximately a 2-3" long part of the body) must measure at least 5" wide.

Ok, that definitely clarifies it for me. Thanks!