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Old 11-23-2014, 05:31 PM   #541
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Default Re: 2014 scale rules discussion or question thead

Your exo would fit the rules in class3 only, and you can use either IFS or solid axles.
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Old 11-23-2014, 06:27 PM   #542
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Default Re: 2014 scale rules discussion or question thead

^^^^^^^^^ wouldnt it depend on the type of chassis he attached to the skid ?

Tube chassis = C3

Tub or Frame rail chassis = any class as long as the rest of the class rules are met.

Since the exo cage is just tube work and the wraith skid is just a skid.... other variables come into play
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Old 11-23-2014, 07:09 PM   #543
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Default Re: 2014 scale rules discussion or question thead

It would be Class 3 only. I'm going to use the lower portion of the sides of the wraith cage to attach the upper portion of the exo body to. I may go IFS, or both solid depending on how strong the chassis is with each setup. The rules read to me like a Exo would work, but I plan on making more of a modified Wraith cage lower half with a Exo top half. I want to use the Wraith skid to get a better break over than the exo skid/pan can provide. The lower profile of the exo cage should help lower my COG as well as look mean as hell in the process.
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Old 11-23-2014, 07:23 PM   #544
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Default Re: 2014 scale rules discussion or question thead

With that bit of extra info, double j is right for once
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Old 11-24-2014, 08:24 AM   #545
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With that bit of extra info, double j is right for once
Don't hate me cause Im baller....
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Old 12-09-2014, 12:01 PM   #546
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Default Re: 2014 scale rules discussion or question thead

Forgive me, but I went back through the thread and didn't see this specifically talked about, but I'm guessing that because the Yeti is a tub chassis that it qualifies for Class 3. Bumpers and ride height might need some adjusting, but it should be legit, right?
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Old 12-09-2014, 12:37 PM   #547
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Default Re: 2014 scale rules discussion or question thead

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Forgive me, but I went back through the thread and didn't see this specifically talked about, but I'm guessing that because the Yeti is a tub chassis that it qualifies for Class 3. Bumpers and ride height might need some adjusting, but it should be legit, right?

Would fit just the same as the Twin Hammers does, C3 is no problem. May also fit other classes, but must meet all other class guidelines.


•You must run a rail chassis (for example: Bruiser/Mountaineer, SCX-10, Reign RC K2-3S, 3L, 4, 5,
MFM, X-Trail, CR-01, UTE, etc...). No TVP (twin vertical plate) chassis' or frame rail extensions on a
TVPs. Tub chassis' are allowed, but chassis must be covered by the body and follow all other scale rules
per class guidelines. An example of a tub chassis vehicle is CC-01, DF01, Twin Hammers, etc.
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Old 12-09-2014, 12:55 PM   #548
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Would fit just the same as the Twin Hammers does, C3 is no problem. May also fit other classes, but must meet all other class guidelines.


•You must run a rail chassis (for example: Bruiser/Mountaineer, SCX-10, Reign RC K2-3S, 3L, 4, 5,
MFM, X-Trail, CR-01, UTE, etc...). No TVP (twin vertical plate) chassis' or frame rail extensions on a
TVPs. Tub chassis' are allowed, but chassis must be covered by the body and follow all other scale rules
per class guidelines. An example of a tub chassis vehicle is CC-01, DF01, Twin Hammers, etc.
Thank you sir.
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Old 12-09-2014, 01:48 PM   #549
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Two front axles steering on an 8X8 does not give the same advantage as having rear steer on a C3. It may gain a bit more steering, but you lose any advantage by simply how long an multi axle rig can get. I'm not skirting the rules with my opinion, just seeing it as it is.
If the point of the rules is to prevent unfair/unscale advantage and promote custom scale fabrication, then I think R2j is on the right page here. I believe amending the rules to allow an 8x8 with 2 front steering axles on 1 servo will not create unfair advantage. Conversely, I would expect it to increase the scale realism, the diversity and the creative fabrication of C1 and C2 allowable rigs. It would open up these classes to more scale replicas of existing vehicles.

Perhaps the rule could be something along the lines of this: Multiple steering axles, controlled by 1 servo per vehicle, are permitted on the front-most axles of multi-axle rigs only if the number of steering axles is less than or equal to half the number of axles on the vehicle.

So, 6x6 = 1 steering axle allowed. 8x8 = 2 steering axles allowed. 10x10 = 2 steering axles allowed. etc...

Personally, if I were to show up to a comp and see a bunch of multi-axled rigs with dual front steer axles, I'd really hope they were in the same class I was competing in. Actually, just replying on this thread has made me contemplate an 8x8
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Old 12-09-2014, 03:02 PM   #550
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Default Re: 2014 scale rules discussion or question thead

That is just too complicated way of calculating steerable axles. And I don't like the one servo idea. Forcing people to use cms just because they have a few more axles doesn't sound good to me. Besides making a steering system that works well with one servo controlling two axles is somewhat difficult. Maybe something about only one channel being used like in 2.2S. But with modern radios with all the mixing possibilities that is a bit difficult to judge.

Just make the rule say that each vehicle has to have atleast one front axle and one rear axle. Then you don't have to calculate anything or write anything complicated.

Granted you could then build a vehicle with 4 steering front axles and 1 one rear axle. But I doubt it would be any good on a cource against an scx10 with some basic performance mods.

Other than that I agree with you completely.

The multiaxle vehicles I have seen live or on youtube have all had wider turning radiuses been bigger and more cumbersome than a smartly modded scx10. Only thing they do better is straight climbing. Even then a good scx10 with the right driver can keep up.

The more diversity there is in the vehicles the better.
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Old 12-09-2014, 03:45 PM   #551
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I see your point about CMS, though it does prevent people from "cheating" with independent servo mixing. Also, I have a feeling that builders who are up to the challenge of building an 8x8 with two steering axles aren't going to complain about having to incorporate a CMS

However, I don't think stating that half or fewer frontward axles on a rig can have steering is too complicated. There are a number of SORCCA rules I've had to re-read a number of times

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The more diversity there is in the vehicles the better.
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Old 12-10-2014, 12:08 AM   #552
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That is just too complicated way of calculating steerable axles. And I don't like the one servo idea.
I agree with this!

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Maybe something about only one channel being used like in 2.2S. ...
Just make the rule say that each vehicle has to have atleast one front axle and one rear axle.
Disagree here.
"One front and one rear."

The most simple AND realistic rule is:
At least one axle without steering.
That covers every type of wheeled vehicle that doesn't use articulated steering.
There are plenty of 8-wheelers (trucks as well as military APCs) with steering on three axles, typically with the 3rd axle not being steered.
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Old 12-10-2014, 09:49 AM   #553
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Default Re: 2014 scale rules discussion or question thead

We are working on the wording right now that will be simple and to the point. From the general consensus of the committee, multi axle vehicles will be allowed in all three classes, and may use multiple front steering axles. Rear steer will still only be allowed in Class 3. But as stated, we are still working on it.


Just keep in mind that the key words are "front" and "multi steering" and not "four wheel steering". Reworking the 4WS wording to say "rear steer" will help clarify that. Where as multi steer will pertain to multi axle vehicles and not one front and one rear.


As for the comments about servos, there really is no need to worry about how many are used or even a need to regulate that. I don't see any advantage to using more that one either via axle mounted or chassis mounted. Chassis mounted will gain scale points, but will also be more effort.
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Old 12-10-2014, 11:15 AM   #554
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Default Re: 2014 scale rules discussion or question thead

Can my not-so fuzzy dice count for non-functional points? Does it matter that there is no rear view mirror?


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Old 12-10-2014, 01:38 PM   #555
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We are working on the wording right now that will be simple and to the point. From the general consensus of the committee, multi axle vehicles will be allowed in all three classes, and may use multiple front steering axles. Rear steer will still only be allowed in Class 3. But as stated, we are still working on it.


Just keep in mind that the key words are "front" and "multi steering" and not "four wheel steering". Reworking the 4WS wording to say "rear steer" will help clarify that. Where as multi steer will pertain to multi axle vehicles and not one front and one rear.


As for the comments about servos, there really is no need to worry about how many are used or even a need to regulate that. I don't see any advantage to using more that one either via axle mounted or chassis mounted. Chassis mounted will gain scale points, but will also be more effort.
Good, I like where this is going

Ollie's wording is indeed simpler and easier to understand than what I had written. However, it must be read in conjunction with the rule stating the rear axle cannot have steering in C1 and C2 and does not address the direction of the steering (which my initial rule also did not address).

Since the rule we are developing only refers to C1 and C2 rigs (I think?), perhaps "any number of front axles may have steering" could work if it was qualified by "so long as each axle steers in the same direction" since I'm assuming we don't want 6x6's and 8x8's with a "front axle" (actually a middle axle) that steers in opposite of the front axle(s).


Also, would there be a possibility of multiple CMS scale points for C1 and C2? Such as: -5 for a front axle CMS, -3 for each subsequent class legal CMS
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Old 12-10-2014, 08:47 PM   #556
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Also, would there be a possibility of multiple CMS scale points for C1 and C2? Such as: -5 for a front axle CMS, -3 for each subsequent class legal CMS
You would only get front CMS points one time.
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Old 12-12-2014, 01:17 AM   #557
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Default Re: 2014 scale rules discussion or question thead

R2j, that sounds great.
Maybe just change the 4ws in the rules to rear steer and call it a day.

Then rear steer would only be allowed in class 3. Other classes could have any amount of steering axles just as long as the rear one(s) wouldn't steer.

Only down side is that now I can't build the offroad forklift I've always dreamed about competing with.
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Old 12-12-2014, 01:46 AM   #558
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R2j, that sounds great.
Maybe just change the 4ws in the rules to rear steer and call it a day.

Then rear steer would only be allowed in class 3. Other classes could have any amount of steering axles just as long as the rear one(s) wouldn't steer.

Only down side is that now I can't build the offroad forklift I've always dreamed about competing with.
Just put the driver in facing backwards and start each course with a reverse penalty

Regardless of what's legal, you should go ahead and build that forklift, it sounds sweet

Last edited by Crawl Space; 12-12-2014 at 01:57 AM.
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Old 12-12-2014, 02:21 PM   #559
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Default Re: 2014 scale rules discussion or question thead

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R2j, that sounds great.
Maybe just change the 4ws in the rules to rear steer and call it a day.

Then rear steer would only be allowed in class 3. Other classes could have any amount of steering axles just as long as the rear one(s) wouldn't steer.

Only down side is that now I can't build the offroad forklift I've always dreamed about competing with.

Working on RS to replace 4WS now. Voting is going on for the Multi axle vehicles.


C3 forklift
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Old 12-20-2014, 02:45 PM   #560
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Default Re: 2014 scale rules discussion or question thead

Hey fellas just curious about notching a 4.2" hole in my drop bed of my C1 build so my spare tire can sit on the frame rails. ... will it be legal and/ or affect points since a good portion of the bed/floor would be gone?

Thanx
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