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Old 09-15-2014, 09:49 AM   #21
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Default Re: Vaterra Ascender Battery Mount

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Originally Posted by TURTLE View Post
Where exactly is this grey area you guys are seeing?
Yes, it appears to be made from black plastic and the grey area is just a highlight. Carry on.
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Old 09-18-2014, 11:25 AM   #22
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Default Re: Vaterra Ascender Battery Mount

Maybe Vaterra can bring back the reverse cowgirl motor setup on their next vehicle. Just because it's RTR doesn't mean it has to be legal.
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Old 09-20-2014, 01:06 AM   #23
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Default Re: Vaterra Ascender Battery Mount

I'm on the side of as long as it sticks to the original intention, which I believe is to keep things looking scale, and this battery mount does.

I don't know about now, but ROAR rules for short course trucks used to require mud flaps, for the same purpose, to look scale, but since some brands did not include mud flaps they changed it to where you only had to have mud flaps if they were originally on the car. Maybe something similar can be done here, to where this setup could be legal, if it came that way, and the battery is not clearly visible. That would prevent losing newcomers that the new kit may draw in, and put a stop to the grey area engineers.

Alternately, if the new release is popular enough, and particularly if any similar competition pops up, maybe this could become a new separate class with larger bodies, and half n half battery mounts.

Personally, I hate rules, that's why I avoid competitions. I would think you would want to draw more people in, and not have more people with my attitude. That's why I'm proposing solutions to include the new mount.

Also, in defense of the mount, if the intent is to look scale, this setup looks more scale than having an axle mounted servo, but that's ok. Why? Because Axial sells it that way, and you don't want to make people have to buy a CMS setup to compete.
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Old 09-20-2014, 07:56 AM   #24
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Default Re: Vaterra Ascender Battery Mount

"I don't know about now, but ROAR rules for short course trucks used to require mud flaps, for the same purpose, to look scale, but since some brands did not include mud flaps they changed it to where you only had to have mud flaps if they were originally on the car. Maybe something similar can be done here, to where this setup could be legal, if it came that way, and the battery is not clearly visible. That would prevent losing newcomers that the new kit may draw in, and put a stop to the grey area engineers."

Well put crazydave
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Old 09-20-2014, 09:30 AM   #25
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Default Re: Vaterra Ascender Battery Mount

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Originally Posted by passinby View Post
"I don't know about now, but ROAR rules for short course trucks used to require mud flaps, for the same purpose, to look scale, but since some brands did not include mud flaps they changed it to where you only had to have mud flaps if they were originally on the car. Maybe something similar can be done here, to where this setup could be legal, if it came that way, and the battery is not clearly visible. That would prevent losing newcomers that the new kit may draw in, and put a stop to the grey area engineers."

Well put crazydave
So as soon as a manufacturer comes out with something then its legal?

Axial comes out with a MOA scaler. Sweet, let it run.....NO

Proline comes out with a 5.8" scale tire, is it legal? NO

An axle mounted battery is not legal for scalers, no matter how scale you can make it look. I personally like it and thinks its a cool set up but it opens the door for guys like me and many others. Even if we say just the Ascender can run this at what point does a the Ascender not become an Ascender? My SCX10 and many others that compete look nothing like a SCX10.

A guy could take the Ascender axles and build a complete custom rig and still run a half axle mounted battery? NO
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Old 09-20-2014, 05:48 PM   #26
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Default Re: Vaterra Ascender Battery Mount

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Originally Posted by sam63 View Post
So as soon as a manufacturer comes out with something then its legal?

Axial comes out with a MOA scaler. Sweet, let it run.....NO

Proline comes out with a 5.8" scale tire, is it legal? NO

An axle mounted battery is not legal for scalers, no matter how scale you can make it look. I personally like it and thinks its a cool set up but it opens the door for guys like me and many others. Even if we say just the Ascender can run this at what point does a the Ascender not become an Ascender? My SCX10 and many others that compete look nothing like a SCX10.

A guy could take the Ascender axles and build a complete customT rig and still run a half axle mounted battery? NO
I think you're reading way too much into it. My point was as long as it sticks to the original intent of the rules of keeping it scale. None of your examples are along that line, in fact you intentially used non-scale examples.

We are also not discussing every new product that comes along, we're discussing Vatterra's battery mount. Let's stick to the point to avoid confusion.

In regards to your last point, if someone uses the just the axles, then that's not how it came, and not at all what I suggested. I wasn't going to try to get in to any kind of finalized wording, but obviously, people are going twist words around to make a point. So, let's put it like this. Say this particular battery mount is ok if the battery is mounted to the stock mounting points. In this case the axle and chassis. Therefore if you change the axles or chassis then this setup is no longer valid. I think keeping the chassis and axles keeps it Ascender enough, while still leaving some room for mods.

Bottom line is, if this kit is as popular as it looks like it will be then you have to make room for the guy just starting out, or I guarantee you'll end up being a group of elitist playing by themselves. You need to make everyone feel welcome. Anyone remember how popular touring cars were? Where are they at now.


I also maintain, it just doesn't make sense to me that a servo sitting on top of an axle in plain sight is ok for scale, but a battery buried between the rails, that you can't see is all of a sudden a problem. Seems like that makes the rules biased to one manufacture.



I'm just saying a basically box stock truck should be allowed to run, and if that is considered a threat, then you have real issues. Maybe it's time to work on your driving, and stop playing word games.
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Old 09-20-2014, 06:05 PM   #27
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Default Re: Vaterra Ascender Battery Mount

The battery tray does not fit the or original intent......
The rules are not just there to keep things scale. Weather some believe it or not, the spirt of why EVERYTHING one of us are here and bought a scaler does that alone.
The rules are also here, to a great aspect imho, to keep an even playing field between drivers.
So a servo on axle can be called unscale all day, but it mimics hydro steer all day to a T. And you get points for CMS vs servo on axle for just that reason.

The debates can keep rolling, the SC reads everything that is talked about here and all over, but this mount is illegal.
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Old 09-20-2014, 06:59 PM   #28
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Default Re: Vaterra Ascender Battery Mount

[QUOTE=crazydave;Maybe it's time to work on your driving[/QUOTE]



Can I add that to my signature?
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Old 09-20-2014, 07:57 PM   #29
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Default Re: Vaterra Ascender Battery Mount

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Originally Posted by doublej View Post
The battery tray does not fit the or original intent......
The rules are not just there to keep things scale. Weather some believe it or not, the spirt of why EVERYTHING one of us are here and bought a scaler does that alone.
I'm sorry, but that didn't even make sense. I no comprehend.
Quote:
The rules are also here, to a great aspect imho, to keep an even playing field between drivers.
So a servo on axle can be called unscale all day, but it mimics hydro steer all day to a T. And you get points for CMS vs servo on axle for just that reason.
I think I get that. I'll try to elaborate, please correct me if I'm wrong. You're saying it's not just about looking scale, you want them to perform scale as well, and that would be why things like dig are not allowed. I guess you wouldn't be able to balance the engine on the front axle in full scale truck either.

Quote:
The debates can keep rolling, the SC reads everything that is talked about here and all over, but this mount is illegal.
Yes, this mount is illegal by the current rules, but I wish you would think about making changes to accomodate a new vehicle so this segment of the hobby can continue to grow. You don't have to actually consider it. Just tell me you are so I can feel better.



Anyways, this doesn't really effect me. I don't think there will be a problem on a local club level, and if enough of these are run on a local level, then maybe changes on a national level will be considered.
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Old 09-20-2014, 09:22 PM   #30
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Default Re: Vaterra Ascender Battery Mount

In my head I can see that tray working without actually being connected to the axle. The tray would rest on a axle mounted post, and the tray would float up as the axle mounted post rises.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Harley View Post
Quick clip of the battery mount.


Last edited by Fishmaxx; 09-20-2014 at 09:26 PM.
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Old 09-20-2014, 09:53 PM   #31
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Default Re: Vaterra Ascender Battery Mount

Actually, I'm sorry but racing got cancelled tonight, I'm bored, and having a beer, sooo... I just thought of something. So are we saying if the SCX10 came with CMS stock, and people started putting the servo on the axle for an advantage that wouldn't be outlawed? I personally believe that is allowed to accommodate Axial's design. It has been stated here that Vaterra tried an axle mounted servo, the piece is even included in the kit, but had clearance problems. If, and I emphasize if, accommodations have been made to accommodate Axial, then I feal Vaterra should be treated fairly.

Once again I apologize for trying to stir things up, but it's fun to debate.
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Old 09-20-2014, 10:18 PM   #32
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Default Re: Vaterra Ascender Battery Mount

Typing on my phone and not rereading things - My fault.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by doublej View Post
The battery tray does not fit the original intent......
The rules are not just there to keep things scale. Weather some believe it or not, the spirt of "staying Scale" is why EVERY one of us are here and own a scaler.
Quote:
Originally Posted by crazydave View Post
I think I get that. I'll try to elaborate, please correct me if I'm wrong. You're saying it's not just about looking scale, you want them to perform scale as well, and that would be why things like dig are not allowed.
Dig and 4WS is legal, because its found on 1:1s
I guess you wouldn't be able to balance the engine on the front axle in full scale truck either.
SO why should you balance a lipo on the axle?
Yes, this mount is illegal by the current rules, but I wish you would think about making changes to accomodate a new vehicle so this segment of the hobby can continue to grow. You don't have to actually consider it. Just tell me you are so I can feel better.
We already did, and its still illegal. But Im not going to lie to make you feel better.
Quote:
Originally Posted by crazydave View Post
So are we saying if the SCX10 came with CMS stock, and people started putting the servo on the axle for an advantage that wouldn't be outlawed? I personally believe that is allowed to accommodate Axial's design. It has been stated here that Vaterra tried an axle mounted servo, the piece is even included in the kit, but had clearance problems. If, and I emphasize if, accommodations have been made to accommodate Axial, then I feal Vaterra should be treated fairly.
Now your just making things up because you want a debate......
Once again I apologize for trying to stir things up, but it's fun to debate.
Quote:
Originally Posted by crazydave View Post
Personally, I hate rules, that's why I avoid competitions.
So why are you still trying to stir things? If this is how you want to spend your time - My all means, have at it.
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Old 09-20-2014, 10:53 PM   #33
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Default Re: Vaterra Ascender Battery Mount

I was sincere in my apology in my previous post. I knew I was getting carried away. I was hoping people would realize I'm just trying to have fun since the post I read said it was open for debate, but basically the subject is closed.

To defend myself to the points made in orange, I was trying to be fair and see your side. I was just confirming.

And to the points in red, I didn't say I don't compete, I just avoid it. I love my rock crawlers, but I race plenty of go fast cars, and I'm just not a competitive, but I do like to know the option is available to me. And this not what I want to do, but I'm caught up on projects, racing got cancelled. What can I say I'm bored.

I'll promise to leave it the alone now. I just forgot to close my browser, and it popped up.
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Old 09-21-2014, 09:37 AM   #34
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Default Re: Vaterra Ascender Battery Mount

Hey Dave,
On the local level we ASTR will be allowing the Ascender to run with the battery in its stock location if someone wants to compete with it but on the national level the rules do state that the battery will need to be chassis mounted. I'm sure this could be done very easily with a couple chassis braces.
The reason behind allowing it to run in its stock location locally is for the very reason you stated, to allow new comers the opportunity to compete.

Now as to your comment about "not" liking rules or competition. I can't say I remember ever seeing you at one of our local scale comps so how can you be sure you wouldn't like it? There are plenty of local guys who "thought" they felt the same way and now wouldn't think of missing one of our events.
Yes, we do run SORCCA rules but I encourage new comers and make adjustments to the rules as I see fit to make everyone feel welcome and to help grow the hobby.
If you have plans to travel to any of the national events or plan to attend a national event here in AZ then you will need to follow the rules for whatever class you plan to run in and make sure your rig is in spec.

Hope to see you out there this season.

Last edited by bmuzz1; 09-21-2014 at 09:48 AM.
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Old 09-22-2014, 02:37 AM   #35
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Default Re: Vaterra Ascender Battery Mount

Took a bit to read everything but as I see it, with last years rules electronics on axle = no. Unless its a servo or winch "to mimic hammer trucks" the part of me says keeping it scale I believe all vehicles should have inner fenders of some kind to hide such battery's. Where the other side says I done this with axial lowing the stock plate where the axle pushes it up and some times rest on but screwed to the frame. But my 2cents it's chassis mounted, and axle mounted. people are expected to change their rig to meet the rules. This to me is like putting it into a tool box again not chassis mounted, my belief is no electronics on axle "mounted".
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Old 09-22-2014, 08:35 AM   #36
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Default Re: Vaterra Ascender Battery Mount

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Originally Posted by sam63 View Post


Can I add that to my signature?
DO IT.... seems appropiate
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Old 09-24-2014, 08:41 AM   #37
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Default Re: Vaterra Ascender Battery Mount

Aren't you making this a bit too complicated?

I believe the rules say "All motors, transmissions, and other electronics (other than steering servos) must be chassis or frame mounted."

So is the battery chassis or frame mounted? No, not completely. The rules don't give an option that it's enough to be only partly chassis or frame mounted.

So change the rules, or change the cars. It's not that hard to mount the battery legally in an Ascender.
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Old 10-15-2014, 01:43 PM   #38
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Default Re: Vaterra Ascender Battery Mount

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Originally Posted by qaw View Post
Aren't you making this a bit too complicated?

I believe the rules say "All motors, transmissions, and other electronics (other than steering servos) must be chassis or frame mounted."

So is the battery chassis or frame mounted? No, not completely. The rules don't give an option that it's enough to be only partly chassis or frame mounted.

So change the rules, or change the cars. It's not that hard to mount the battery legally in an Ascender.
This comment of yours is the complicated part. It is chassis mounted but it is also axle mounted. which the rules state that it needs to be chassis mounted not that it can not be on axle also.
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Old 10-15-2014, 03:39 PM   #39
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Default Re: Vaterra Ascender Battery Mount

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Originally Posted by Absurd View Post
This comment of yours is the complicated part. It is chassis mounted but it is also axle mounted. which the rules state that it needs to be chassis mounted not that it can not be on axle also.
Doesn't say you cant use a quad copter or turbo fan attached to your rig either....sometimes you just need to use your judgment on what was intended so the rules don't have to become some 14 volume book.

Trust me on the looking for loopholes or discrepancies, I can find them all day still and did my best to prevent them when I was on committee without the "book" getting to wordy and still allow creativity and some room for advancement.
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Old 10-19-2014, 08:46 PM   #40
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Default Re: Vaterra Ascender Battery Mount

I wanted to post this a few nights ago I been holding it to see if anyone else would comment, Thing is a Helicopter motor is allowed if put into a transmission that powers the axles if it causes lift or movement otherwise its posted in the rules as a big NO. The rules are simple so we do not have books on it however something like this is why there should be a link to a description post for each rule for those who want to find loop holes or refuse to understand logic, the rules as of 2014 require it only to be chassis mounted it does not stop you from attaching it to your axle either it only suggest you to cover your electronics to make it more scale/realistic but with this truck in 2012 and 2013 the rules stated no electronics other then the servo on the axle, I know it does not say it now but thats how I have my trucks.
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