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Old 09-13-2014, 06:56 PM   #1
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Default Vaterra Ascender Battery Mount

Has anyone looked at the new Vaterra Ascender battery mounting system? I received a media version of the truck last week and it has a very interesting system. Something I haven't really seen before.

The tray is hinged, the rear of the tray is mounted just in front of the transmission and the front of the tray is mounted off of the front axle. I can get some pictures posted in here if you guys are not familiar with it.

The concern is that the battery is, in a way, axle mounted.

Thoughts?
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Old 09-13-2014, 07:04 PM   #2
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Default Re: Vaterra Ascender Battery Mount

While it is on the axle, the battery is also not solidly mounted to it. Looking at the rig, it is still scale and there isn't a big battery hanging off the axle. I would say that it meets the scale intentions in a unique way. Outlawing it just because it is in a grey area would be a bad idea unless you want to discourage manufactures. It's really nice to see completely new solid axle kits on the market, and it will also be a great kit to build for a scale event.
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Old 09-13-2014, 09:00 PM   #3
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Default Re: Vaterra Ascender Battery Mount

I also think it meets the spirit of the class, and I hate when rules limit a stock truck. Especially this truck that is very scale in the end.

It definitely needs to be addressed by the rules committee though as by the letter of the law, it would appear to be in conflict.
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Old 09-13-2014, 09:10 PM   #4
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Default Re: Vaterra Ascender Battery Mount

In my wiggle speak, the battery tray is chassis mounted with a retainer on the axle. The tray could be easily removed from the axle point and still be usable, but not from the chassis point as far as I can see. In those terms, the rules are good as-is. But maybe a bit of clarification would be good since there will be PLENTY of these showing up at events.
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Old 09-13-2014, 09:17 PM   #5
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Default Re: Vaterra Ascender Battery Mount

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Originally Posted by JohnRobHolmes View Post
In my wiggle speak, the battery tray is chassis mounted with a retainer on the axle. The tray could be easily removed from the axle point and still be usable, but not from the chassis point as far as I can see. In those terms, the rules are good as-is. But maybe a bit of clarification would be good since there will be PLENTY of these showing up at events.
That's a stretch, even for a rule stretcher like myself
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Old 09-13-2014, 09:18 PM   #6
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Default Re: Vaterra Ascender Battery Mount

Would you agree that the chassis mount is the structural side that wouldn't be easy to relocate?
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Old 09-13-2014, 09:45 PM   #7
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Default Re: Vaterra Ascender Battery Mount

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Would you agree that the chassis mount is the structural side that wouldn't be easy to relocate?
I would say that removing either side would make it function poorly. There are 2 points at the chassis and one on the axle. Any way you look at it, the axle supports half the weight of the battery.

I think the idea is super cool, I just want to make sure that it's given an official blessing and the rule wording is looked at/modified to allow such a thing.
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Old 09-13-2014, 09:48 PM   #8
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Default Re: Vaterra Ascender Battery Mount

It's more than 50% chassis, case closed


Good thinking to bring it up now. I'm sure they will find a way to word things around it.
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Old 09-13-2014, 11:28 PM   #9
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Default Re: Vaterra Ascender Battery Mount

I guess I should have taken a quick look at the rules before making my comment in regards to the battery mount. My mistake.
It isn't legal since it is not chassis mounted. I still think it's a slick design though.

I don't see an issue with it as long as the battery is not in plain view.(on the local level)
I agree it is a very clevor design and I would assume that they were paying some attention to the rules when designing the rig which makes me very happy.

Side note: I was considering the Ascender for a class 1 until I saw your build thread Harley...the rig is huge! I think it'll probably look rediculous with C1 legal tires mounted to it. If you've got some I'd like to see a pic.

Last edited by bmuzz1; 09-14-2014 at 11:37 AM.
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Old 09-14-2014, 03:42 AM   #10
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Default Re: Vaterra Ascender Battery Mount

[QUOTE=bmuzz1;4893538Side note: I was considering the Ascender for a class 1 until I saw your build thread Harley...the rig is huge! I think it'll probably look rediculous with C1 legal tires mounted to it. If you've got some I'd like to see a pic.[/QUOTE]

A class one legal 4.19" tyre would scale up to the Ascender as being almost a 38" tire. Not really a tiny tyre under a real K5. It's just that in the rc world we have gotten used to the over sized tyres. Under a truly 1/10th scale rig a 1.9 PitBull Rock Beast is a 44" tyre on a 19" wheel. Under a tamiya F350 which is closer to 1/12th scale it is a 53" tyre on a 22" wheel.

Here is a K5 with 37" tyres.
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Old 09-14-2014, 09:27 AM   #11
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Default Re: Vaterra Ascender Battery Mount

Doesn't this open the door for other "unique" battery mounting methods. I can see guys like MG200 and myself manipulating this on future builds. The wheels are already turning.....

So if you have two mounting points on the chassis and one on the axle its ok? What if that one mounting point on the axle support more than 50% of the batteries weight?

Sorry to bag on the Ascender, its a really cool rig, but I don't see how this is legal for scale competition. Looks like the front axle mount could be disconnected and the battery tray just zip tied off to the frame as a quick fix.

After thinking about this a bit more, what they have going on here would be similar to mounting the battery to the top of a upper Y link....two points at the chassis and one at the axle. No way you can get away with that even if its hidden and scale looking.
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Old 09-14-2014, 10:18 AM   #12
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Default Re: Vaterra Ascender Battery Mount

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Originally Posted by sam63 View Post
Doesn't this open the door for other "unique" battery mounting methods. I can see guys like MG200 and myself manipulating this on future builds. The wheels are already turning.....

So if you have two mounting points on the chassis and one on the axle its ok? What if that one mounting point on the axle support more than 50% of the batteries weight?

Sorry to bag on the Ascender, its a really cool rig, but I don't see how this is legal for scale competition. Looks like the front axle mount could be disconnected and the battery tray just zip tied off to the frame as a quick fix.

After thinking about this a bit more, what they have going on here would be similar to mounting the battery to the top of a upper Y link....two points at the chassis and one at the axle. No way you can get away with that even if its hidden and scale looking.

Sam, without throwing you and Trenton under the bus right away, you guys were exactly who I was thinking about. Pushing the rules is part of it for lots of guys, and I understand that. This is one of those things that I was worried about leaving just that little crack in the rules and allowing guys to pry it open and start walking through it. Making it the new norm.

I really like this mount, it's freaking slick! But as Sam said, it is exactly like mounting the battery to the upper links in function. I also agree there are easy quick fixes for guys who want to compete at a national level (meaning, let guys roll with this on a local level at your clubs discretion).
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Old 09-14-2014, 10:21 AM   #13
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Default Re: Vaterra Ascender Battery Mount

Quote:
Originally Posted by bmuzz1 View Post
I don't see an issue with it as long as the battery is not in plain view.
I agree it is a very clevor design and I would assume that they were paying some attention to the rules when designing the rig which makes me very happy.

Side note: I was considering the Ascender for a class 1 until I saw your build thread Harley...the rig is huge! I think it'll probably look rediculous with C1 legal tires mounted to it. If you've got some I'd like to see a pic.
I don't think I have any little tires. Well maybe some Flat Irons and Ripsaws but I think they are slightly too big, correct?
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Old 09-14-2014, 11:17 AM   #14
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Default Re: Vaterra Ascender Battery Mount

I am embarrassed to say I was mistaken in my earlier comment regarding the placement of the Ascender battery being okay. The rules clearly state that the battery needs to be chassis mounted. I should know this but obviously don't have all the rules memorized. My bad!

As for the C1 tires vs body size, it looks to me that the body is slightly bigger then 1/10th scale and maybe closer to 1/9th or 1/8th, Is that correct Harley?
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Last edited by bmuzz1; 09-14-2014 at 11:51 AM.
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Old 09-14-2014, 11:56 AM   #15
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Default Re: Vaterra Ascender Battery Mount

Quote:
Originally Posted by bmuzz1 View Post
I am embarrassed to say I was mistaken in my earlier comment regarding the placement of the Ascender battery being okay. The rules clearly state that the battery needs to be chassis mounted. I should know this but obviously don't have all the rules memorized. My bad!

As for the C1 tires vs body size, it looks to me that the body is slightly bigger then 1/10th scale and maybe closer to 1/9th or 1/8th, Is that correct Harley?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
The body is right about 20" long. So I think it scales to something like 1:9.4 if the measurements of the fullsize I got didn't include bumpers. If they did include bumpers than it will dip closer to 1:9 or so.
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Old 09-14-2014, 01:14 PM   #16
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Default Re: Vaterra Ascender Battery Mount

Quick clip of the battery mount.

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Old 09-14-2014, 06:31 PM   #17
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Harley View Post
Has anyone looked at the new Vaterra Ascender battery mounting system? I received a media version of the truck last week and it has a very interesting system. Something I haven't really seen before. The tray is hinged, the rear of the tray is mounted just in front of the transmission and the front of the tray is mounted off of the front axle. I can get some pictures posted in here if you guys are not familiar with it. The concern is that the battery is, in a way, axle mounted. Thoughts?
This debate is giving me a chuckle along with flashbacks to my old corporate lawyer days (which, thankfully, are well behind me). My law school torts professor would have had a field day with this discussion. He would ask what "mount" means? To get metaphysical for a moment, could one take the position that the battery in the Ascender is suspended between the chassis and the axle and not mounted on or in either one? He also would have pointed out that, under the rules, twin vertical plate rigs aren't allowed, but CR-01s are. And those have identical side plates (since there are two, that would make them twins) that stay vertical (unless/until you roll the truck on its side). But I'm still new to this and haven't yet done my first comp, so what do I know? I'll just sit on the sidelines, enjoy the spirited debate, and watch Harley's build thread in anticipation that I'll probably build one soon. :thumbsup:
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Old 09-14-2014, 06:54 PM   #18
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Default Re: Vaterra Ascender Battery Mount

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Originally Posted by new2rocks View Post
This debate is giving me a chuckle along with flashbacks to my old corporate lawyer days (which, thankfully, are well behind me). My law school torts professor would have had a field day with this discussion. He would ask what "mount" means? To get metaphysical for a moment, could one take the position that the battery in the Ascender is suspended between the chassis and the axle and not mounted on or in either one? He also would have pointed out that, under the rules, twin vertical plate rigs aren't allowed, but CR-01s are. And those have identical side plates (since there are two, that would make them twins) that stay vertical (unless/until you roll the truck on its side). But I'm still new to this and haven't yet done my first comp, so what do I know? I'll just sit on the sidelines, enjoy the spirited debate, and watch Harley's build thread in anticipation that I'll probably build one soon. :thumbsup:
You would have done well in the Comp scene. We were always going for loopholes there. The good thing the scale scene has going is that they still have a hold on nipping things in the bud early as well as keeping things "in the spirit" of the rule. Meaning, get metaphysical all you want, do as I mean not as I say
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Old 09-14-2014, 07:29 PM   #19
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Default Re: Vaterra Ascender Battery Mount

Quote:
Originally Posted by Harley View Post
Sam, without throwing you and Trenton under the bus right away, you guys were exactly who I was thinking about. Pushing the rules is part of it for lots of guys, and I understand that. This is one of those things that I was worried about leaving just that little crack in the rules and allowing guys to pry it open and start walking through it. Making it the new norm.

I really like this mount, it's freaking slick! But as Sam said, it is exactly like mounting the battery to the upper links in function. I also agree there are easy quick fixes for guys who want to compete at a national level (meaning, let guys roll with this on a local level at your clubs discretion).
Thanks Harley, I am flattered, really. Im all for making scalers as capable as possible is all and this little feat of engineering would help just that little tit bit ya know. Thanks for posting the video so we could see whats is really going on.

Looks like a good topic for the scale rules guys to throw around
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Old 09-14-2014, 08:38 PM   #20
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Default Re: Vaterra Ascender Battery Mount

Where exactly is this grey area you guys are seeing?
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