2015 scale rules discussion or question thead

[1BadJeepBruiser]

Originally Posted by the lizard

• No comp style knuckle weights of any kind

someone here in Italy adds small pieces of lead on the axles.
these should be considered illegal?




Thanx

Originally Posted by doublej

The rule is for comp style "knuckle weights", those aren't too scale but neither is the axle case itself.
Its legal but some black paint or even tungsten putty inside the case would look better.

Personally I think this shouldn't be allowed... If your not allowing comp style knuckle weights then how is this any better ?? I get that the axial axle isn't the most scale axle but I think if your adding weight, it should have to be done in a scale manner not just doubled sided taped to the axle or zip tied. Any added additional weight should have to be "out of site"... Just like how the battery and other electronics have to be.

[Olle P]

Originally Posted by R2j

You are quoting from the 2013 rule set that say "winch -3", 2014 and current 2015 use the verbiage "self recovery -3". ...

No, I'm quoting the 2015 rules.
Don't confuse the -3 scale bonus points with the +3 use penalty points.

But you make me realise that it's the word "winch" in the listing that needs to be changed to "self-recovery".

[War Pig]

Would this be better? Highlight in green.

Course points and penalties:

Points:
Progress: -2 points
Reverse: +1 point
Gate Marker: +10 points
Rollover: +5 points
Boundary Marker: +10 points
Vehicle Touch (Repair & Repositions): +10 points
Course Direction: +10 points
Self Recovery (Winch): +3 points
Assisted Recovery: +10 points
Dig/Rear Steer: +5 points
Point out: +80 points
Did not finish: Point out +20 points
Did not start: Point out+50 points

[Scrap]

It isn't a big thing but what about the SUV cargo area point? Do you get it for an open top SUV? Example Blazer or Bronco with the removable top removed?
What about a detailed boot/trunk in a sedan or hatchback?

[War Pig]

Originally Posted by Scrap

It isn't a big thing but what about the SUV cargo area point? Do you get it for an open top SUV? Example Blazer or Bronco with the removable top removed?
What about a detailed boot/trunk in a sedan or hatchback?

The SUV cargo area would be a detailed interior area behind the seats like in a Bronco, Blazer, 4Runner etc. That could include a wagon or hatchback area. Not really a trunk unless the trunk lid opened to reveal the interior. This scale point was designed to give people incentive to detail out the entire interior in their vehicle.

[R2j]

Originally Posted by Olle P

No, I'm quoting the 2015 rules.
Don't confuse the -3 scale bonus points with the +3 use penalty points.

But you make me realise that it's the word "winch" in the listing that needs to be changed to "self-recovery".

I meant to type + not - My error.


As for the 2015 set, looks like there is a typo on JJ's end. It should say self recovery not winch.

[doublej]

Fixed it! Thanks guys!

[Crank]

Originally Posted by 1BadJeepBruiser

Personally I think this shouldn't be allowed... If your not allowing comp style knuckle weights then how is this any better ?? I get that the axial axle isn't the most scale axle but I think if your adding weight, it should have to be done in a scale manner not just doubled sided taped to the axle or zip tied. Any added additional weight should have to be "out of site"... Just like how the battery and other electronics have to be.

I was wondering the same thing.
Is the basis for not allowing knuckle weights, the scale aspect of it?
Seems like A set of VP knuckle weights could be painted black and blend much better than something on the axle.

[Raceaholic]

Good job Guys. Thank you for all the time spent for the 2015 Rules. I like the 80 point out rule. I ran comp for years . The point out was 40. If someone is getting close to a scale point out they have had some issues. And if the judge thinks he is close. Just call time and stop the driver. Just keep in mind while judging. To call time when the vehicle is in a flat open spot. Not in a tough position.
Thank you !!

[crawl33oh]

Just to clear it up, I see nothing in the rules against the STOCK Ascender battery tray, correct?


Sent using magic

[doublej]

Originally Posted by crawl33oh

Just to clear it up, I see nothing in the rules against the STOCK Ascender battery tray, correct?

The stock set up on the Ascender is illegal - Only electronic that can be axle mounted is the steering servo. Lock it out to the chassis only and its legal.

[crawl33oh]

Techinically it is chassis mounted, the hinge point on it is on the slider mounts which bolt to the frame. What kills me is that is illegal, but how is using whatever to build an interior legal? Like my awesome cardboard and straw rollcage.


Sent using magic

[13in.]

I'm not sure if this has ever been brought up or discussed but has anyone ever considered a course reset? By saying that, I mean lets say you have 50 trucks competing in class 2. After half of the trucks(25) have made a pass at the course, have the course workers/judges go around and replace rocks and dirt that have been kicked out/removed. I'm not an expert by any means having only competed twice under sorcca rules, but when you watch so many people just cruise over obstacles with ease until it gradually deteriorates to the point that it is not possible without taking some recovery points or hit it hard and hope you don't clip a gate.
Another (probably better) option I thought about is possibly having everyone complete the course in one direction, and then turn around and run the course in the opposite direction while reversing the driver line-up. So the first driver running the course would be the 50th driver when running in reverse. Or if there were 2 courses, have the driver order flip from the first course.
Just a couple ideas I had to try to make it more of a level playing field for everyone.
If this has been brought up before, or doesn't belong in this section,I apologize.
I know the early bird gets the worm but man it sucks starting in the back of the pack.

[R2j]

Originally Posted by crawl33oh

Techinically it is chassis mounted, the hinge point on it is on the slider mounts which bolt to the frame. What kills me is that is illegal, but how is using whatever to build an interior legal? Like my awesome cardboard and straw rollcage.


Sent using magic

It's still is mounted to the axle. Just remove the axle mount, we have discussed this already and it is still not legal.

The interior fits within the rule, no matter the material used. It's not something I would do but....

[crawl33oh]

I wouldn't either. I did it to mock how easy scale points are gained. I see plenty of vehicles with batteries that are supposed to be chassis mounted, that are hidden in scale accessories and aren't in question because they're hidden. I can build an interior around it, would that make it legal? Also how is the battery there any different from knuckle wheel or axle weights?


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[R2j]

If batteries are hidden in other scale items such as a tool box or under a seat for example, they are chassis mounted. As for covering up the battery with interior and still leaving it mounted to the axle, you would still not be legal.

At the local level it may pass, but be prepared to make it legal at a national event.

[Scrap]

Just leave out the screw that attaches the ascender battery mount to the axle and you are legal.

Your cardboard interior is way too heavy. Try using aluminium foil. Much lighter. And if you coat the straws with it you'll get the points for a metal cage too.

We in Finland have this thing called loop hole exploitation.

[crawl33oh]

I was at a local comp the other day and there was a custom truck with a welder in the bed, plug ran up in front of it and then down inside. You mean to tell me the obvious fact the battery just sat in there and was no way tied to the chassis its legal? Are you afraid my stock ascender is a good contender? Since I can't have the tray in the stock location although with SORCCA logic is technically legal I'll just strap a lead block to the front axle to simulate the battery up there, cause apparently thats legal


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[War Pig]

Originally Posted by crawl33oh

I was at a local comp the other day and there was a custom truck with a welder in the bed, plug ran up in front of it and then down inside. You mean to tell me the obvious fact the battery just sat in there and was no way tied to the chassis its legal? Are you afraid my stock ascender is a good contender? Since I can't have the tray in the stock location although with SORCCA logic is technically legal I'll just strap a lead block to the front axle to simulate the battery up there, cause apparently thats legal


Sent using magic

There have to be general rules to make these work. It's not so much that the Ascender battery mount makes it an awesome performer, it's just that others will exploit that rule if they can use it to make their rigs perform better. Just lock it out and be done with it. So many people are up in arms about tiny little things when they could just put all that effort into complying with the rules. Or maybe some people just enjoy complaining about things!?!

[crawl33oh]

So when I strap a battery to my hood an cover it with a cardboard hood scoop its chassis mounted because its covered by an accessory. I'm not complaining, I'm trying to see the SORCCA logic behind it being illegal, yet hiding a battery in the bed of a truck magically makes it legal and chassis mounted, please explain to me how that makes any sense at all. I'm just using your logic, battery hidden by a crate, magic legal. Battery hinged to frame via axle, illegal and I get my pp smacked for it.


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