2015 scale rules discussion or question thead

[vwdaveb]

Would an AX10 with fenderless VW body fit in any class?

[XSRCdesign]

Originally Posted by vwdaveb

Would an AX10 with fenderless VW body fit in any class?

Depends.... Does it fit the other rules?

[War Pig]

Originally Posted by vwdaveb

Would an AX10 with fenderless VW body fit in any class?

If it has the stock chassis then no. No TVP chassis' in scale, but it could be easily modified to fit into a SORRCA class with a new rail chassis and a few other mods.

[Szczerba]

General guidelines still make an non-frame rail'ed Class 3 tube chassis'd rig illegal. I.E. you have to run a rail or tub chassis in all classes.

"You must run a rail chassis (for example: Bruiser/Mountaineer, SCX-10, Reign RC K2-3S, 3L, 4, 5, MFM, X-Trail, CR-01, UTE, etc...). No TVP (twin vertical plate) chassis' or frame rail extensions on a TVPs. Tub chassis' are allowed, but chassis must be covered by the body and follow all other scale rules per class guidelines. An example of a tub chassis vehicle is CC-01, DF01, Twin Hammers, etc."

[Loehdingc]

I might have missed it, but is using the rc4wd working Hi-lift acceptable as a recovery tool?

[maxbonv]

I have a question for the Committee members.
The Overdrive or Underdrive is legal in S.O.R.R.C.A. competition in all classes,
but in my Twin Hammers Class 3 i have modified the gearbox - transmission and now I have no more the gear shift,
in its place I have an underdrive rear, switchable by remote control.

This is the demo video

The two positions selectable by remote control are:

1) Front & Rear axle same speed
2) Front Axle high speed, Rear Axle Low speed = underdrive

I don't have the ability to lock the rear axle.
My question is, this system is Legal ?

Thanks for your answers.

[War Pig]

Originally Posted by Loehdingc

I might have missed it, but is using the rc4wd working Hi-lift acceptable as a recovery tool?

Sure, but you have to video tape it and post it for us to see. It would count the same as a winch, sand ramp etc.

Originally Posted by maxbonv

I have a question for the Committee members.
The Overdrive or Underdrive is legal in S.O.R.R.C.A. competition in all classes,
but in my Twin Hammers Class 3 i have modified the gearbox - transmission and now I have no more the gear shift,
in its place I have an underdrive rear, switchable by remote control.

This is the demo video

The two positions selectable by remote control are:

1) Front & Rear axle same speed
2) Front Axle high speed, Rear Axle Low speed = underdrive

I don't have the ability to lock the rear axle.
My question is, this system is Legal ?

Thanks for your answers.

Sounds like a dig set up, which is legal in Class 3.

[doublej]

Originally Posted by War Pig

Sure, but you have to video tape it and post it for us to see. It would count the same as a winch, sand ramp etc.



Sounds like a dig set up, which is legal in Class 3.

If thats a DIG then OD/UD is a dig. All he has made is a selectable OD/UD. Same setup as any 2 speed but he has the second gearing only going to 1 axle.

Now if someone can make this for front and rear separately then we could have an MOA style dig setup on scalers..... But till then its just a fancy 2 speed.

[maxbonv]

Originally Posted by War Pig

Sounds like a dig set up, which is legal in Class 3.

You consider my modification equivalent to a DIG?
So if during a competition I change the gear ratio to the axles via remote control
it will have the same penalty use DIG? (+5 points)

Originally Posted by doublej

If thats a DIG then OD/UD is a dig. All he has made is a selectable OD/UD. Same setup as any 2 speed but he has the second gearing only going to 1 axle.

Now if someone can make this for front and rear separately then we could have an MOA style dig setup on scalers..... But till then its just a fancy 2 speed.

To be precise, the two conditions can be selected are:

1) Equal rotation of the axles
2) Rear Underdrive

Please, if there is possible, you can tell me if this my modify is Legal
and if I can use it in competitions without penalty?

We in Italy we always try to have an official indication from you Commitee Members

[War Pig]

If it's selectable, then it's a dig. You use 1:1 gearing until you need to turn sharper or dig the front tires in for a climb. Sounds like dig to me.
If it's over/under all the time then it's not dig.

Sounds like a +5 dig penalty to me.

[maxbonv]

Originally Posted by War Pig

If it's selectable, then it's a dig. You use 1:1 gearing until you need to turn sharper or dig the front tires in for a climb. Sounds like dig to me.
If it's over/under all the time then it's not dig.

Sounds like a +5 dig penalty to me.

Thank you for your answer.
My opinion is different, but since you are the committee that decides what is legal and what is not legal,
i adapt to your decision and inform the Committee SORRCA Italy.

[War Pig]

It's the only way to be fair without rewriting the rule book.

[emmett751]

frame rails, so a wraith fits nowhere inside the rules for SORRCA?

[doublej]

Originally Posted by War Pig

It's the only way to be fair without rewriting the rule book.

Problem is the rules don't define a dig, so I guess they need to be rewritten to make this a dig also.
But a dig as always been a disconnect and/or lock in the drive line. Not a gear change.
By your reasoning a 2 speed would be a dig because I use it todo burn outs and make my tf2 "turn sharper".

Until he either adds a lock or disconnect he is no better then 90% of the field with OD/UD, yet you want to pentilize him with the dig and 4ws (without proper rule wording todo so) over selectable gearing.

[doublej]

Originally Posted by emmett751

frame rails, so a wraith fits nowhere inside the rules for SORRCA?

Wraith is a tuber unless you add scx10 style frame rails. Which a vendor has available.

[maxbonv]

Originally Posted by doublej

Problem is the rules don't define a dig, so I guess they need to be rewritten to make this a dig also.
But a dig as always been a disconnect and/or lock in the drive line. Not a gear change.
By your reasoning a 2 speed would be a dig because I use it todo burn outs and make my tf2 "turn sharper".

Until he either adds a lock or disconnect he is no better then 90% of the field with OD/UD, yet you want to pentilize him with the dig and 4ws (without proper rule wording todo so) over selectable gearing.

This reasoning on a new technical problem I really like me, because it is not limited to the application of a Rules that has an obvious lack, but it is constructive.
I think they are two important parameters for assessing what is Legal and in what class it is allowed:

1) Mechanical Correspondence with cars 1: 1
2) Evaluation of the benefits and effectiveness of performance

For the first point, if I take for example the Class 1, there is no Street Stock vehicle 1:1 with different rotation of the axles, but in the Rules it allowed the OD / UD in all Classes, and this is already a contradiction.

For the second point, the efficiency of the rear lock axle (DIG) is significantly higher than that of the OD or UD. With DIG you can perform extreme maneuvers, that you can not perform with OD or UD.

My modification is based on an selectable gear and a 2-position command,
I can not disconnect an axle, then the performance advantage is identical to that of OD or UD.

I hope that I expressed in a way understandable to you, unfortunately they are not good at writing in English, my native language is Italian,
and I hope that you accept the confrontation and the technical discussion on this topic,
change and improvement are part of life, even in the world Scaler.

[War Pig]

When you are switching it from something to OD/UD when you need it, then it becomes dig. Think about it.....you switch it with your transmitter when you need the performance advantage. If you want to drive around with the OD/UD all the time, then I have no problem with it. It's the act of switching it when you need it that's the penalty.

[maxbonv]

Please, I would like to understand better,
the OD/UD is Legal and according to what you wrote the penality is the act of switching between two different mechanical ratios.
If this is the reason that leads to a penalty, why it is valid only for my modify but is not for the gear shift?
Currently the two different speeds and OD / UD are legal, the act of switching the first gear with the second gear is legal,
there are no performance advantages between my system and an OD / UD permanent, surely I have disadvantages
compared to the OD / UD permanent when I change selection from OD to 4WD (same speed axle rotation).

The only real benefit of my modify is the possibility to reduce the mechanical friction of the OD and reduce
power consumption when OD is not selected, but this is not a performance advantage....

Please help me to better understand the reasons for your decision.

[doublej]

Originally Posted by War Pig

When you are switching it from something to OD/UD when you need it, then it becomes dig. Think about it.....you switch it with your transmitter when you need the performance advantage. If you want to drive around with the OD/UD all the time, then I have no problem with it. It's the act of switching it when you need it that's the penalty.

Then change the rules to reflect such.....

Cause if the switching on the transmitter is the penalty then I can start a c3 course in 4WS and as long as I never exit it, no penalty for me.

[801RYAN]

Would a penalty be charged from switching from high to low gear on a 2 speed? One could argue that there is a advantage to running either.