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Old 02-06-2021, 08:12 AM   #1
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Default Winches and functional scale points.

Couple questions:

Do servos winches get scale points?
If so why?

Do functional items actually have to be functional or useable (no touch like a winch) while you are competing? Or can I just glue them down so they look functional?

Last edited by MOguy; 02-06-2021 at 08:30 AM.
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Old 02-08-2021, 09:35 AM   #2
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Default Re: Winches and functional scale points.

One could easily make the argument that a servo winch is visually no different than a hidden winch on a 1:1 so if I was on the judging team it would be a yes from me.

Stuff like this is typically discretionary though and each club might have their own policy.
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Old 02-08-2021, 06:06 PM   #3
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Default Re: Winches and functional scale points.

Quote:
Originally Posted by QuesoDelDiablo View Post
One could easily make the argument that a servo winch is visually no different than a hidden winch on a 1:1 so if I was on the judging team it would be a yes from me.

Stuff like this is typically discretionary though and each club might have their own policy.
I just don't agree ( I know it isn't my call) that a hidden servo winch deserves scale points like a scale looking winch. I have seen many winches tucked under or hidden in the vehicle on recovery vehicles and while in the Army and the don't look like a servo.

I don't think servo winches should be scored different when used but they don't deserve scale points.

Last edited by MOguy; 02-08-2021 at 06:10 PM.
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Old 02-08-2021, 08:07 PM   #4
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Default Re: Winches and functional scale points.

.02...if they are hidden why would it matter how real they look?

Iíd think the fact that there is a working winch cable plumbed through the fairlead versus a kinetic one slung over the cab would be real enough, hidden winches are fairly common in the real world nowadays.

But Iím not a judge at your next meet lol.


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Old 02-09-2021, 09:11 AM   #5
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Default Re: Winches and functional scale points.

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Originally Posted by Phildirt View Post
.02...if they are hidden why would it matter how real they look?

I’d think the fact that there is a working winch cable plumbed through the fairlead versus a kinetic one slung over the cab would be real enough, hidden winches are fairly common in the real world nowadays.

But I’m not a judge at your next meet lol.


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A kinetic winch does not get scale point. It could be threaded through a fail lead, it can be hidden like a servo winch (DSM off road kinetic winch). If you do that would the kinetic bungie winch get scale points? Why should a hidden servo winch that resembles nothing that is scale, get scale points?

Last edited by MOguy; 02-09-2021 at 09:15 AM.
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Old 02-09-2021, 10:08 AM   #6
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Default Re: Winches and functional scale points.

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Originally Posted by MOguy View Post
A kinetic winch does not get scale point. It could be threaded through a fail lead, it can be hidden like a servo winch (DSM off road kinetic winch). If you do that would the kinetic bungie winch get scale points? Why should a hidden servo winch that resembles nothing that is scale, get scale points?

I don't know man. You asked if they do. That's my opinion. A functional hidden winch is, in my opinion, a scale feature. It is operated in the same fashion as a 1:1 winch and is the same in exterior appearance. If you club doesn't agree, then you won't get points for it.


No, I don't think a winch line tied to the frame and hung from a tow hook is the same thing.
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Old 02-09-2021, 11:07 AM   #7
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Default Re: Winches and functional scale points.

I agree, if there is a working winch, it should get functional scale points, hidden or not. Hidden winches are very popular nowadays.




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Old 02-09-2021, 11:34 AM   #8
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Default Re: Winches and functional scale points.

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Originally Posted by Phildirt View Post
I don't know man. You asked if they do. That's my opinion. A functional hidden winch is, in my opinion, a scale feature. It is operated in the same fashion as a 1:1 winch and is the same in exterior appearance. If you club doesn't agree, then you won't get points for it.


No, I don't think a winch line tied to the frame and hung from a tow hook is the same thing.
They all serve the same purpose (some better than others) but they are all different in appearance / scaleness.
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Old 02-09-2021, 01:44 PM   #9
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Default Re: Winches and functional scale points.

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Originally Posted by ScaleLifeNewbie View Post
I agree, if there is a working winch, it should get functional scale points, hidden or not. Hidden winches are very popular nowadays.

Popular in the RC world, but none like that on a 1:1. There is no example of a winch like a servo esp on what would be a class1.




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Popular in the RC world, but none like that on a 1:1. There is no example of a winch like a servo esp on what would be a class1.

Would it be OK to mount a servo winch on the bumper so it was visible?
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Old 02-09-2021, 02:01 PM   #10
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Default Re: Winches and functional scale points.

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Originally Posted by MOguy View Post
Popular in the RC world, but none like that on a 1:1. There is no example of a winch like a servo esp on what would be a class1.

Would it be OK to mount a servo winch on the bumper so it was visible?

There are tons of hidden winches available for 1:1 rigs. I mean if you are going to worry about what can't be seen looking real on one of these trucks that is a rabbit hole...except maybe Tesla there really aren't any electric powered 4x4s running around.


I get where you are going with this, but I think the point you are trying to make is "does your club count a servo winch when adding up scale points" correct? If so that would be the discretion of the club/judges. I don't think anyone is trying to say a servo looks like any real winch or anything.
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Old 02-09-2021, 02:10 PM   #11
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Default Re: Winches and functional scale points.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MOguy View Post
Popular in the RC world, but none like that on a 1:1. There is no example of a winch like a servo esp on what would be a class1.

Would it be OK to mount a servo winch on the bumper so it was visible?
What do you mean, "none like that on a 1:1"?

there's loads hidden winches on 1:1s

https://postimg.cc/ct1Lw682
https://postimg.cc/G9pRFW5W
https://postimg.cc/NKRvGBKH

That's the darndest thang I ever did see!

To our knowledge, there could be a massive servo behind that Tacoma's grille, and we wouldn't even know it

You see where Im going with this?
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Old 02-09-2021, 02:32 PM   #12
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Default Re: Winches and functional scale points.

This thread is confusing me a little, I thought from the beginning he wanted to know if we thought a servo winch was considered scale from a points perspective, not from a 'would you see one under a real Jeep' perspective (of course not?) I mean as far as function/what you can see we're debating semantics at this point. I say show up at the next meet and see what happens, worse case scenario you don't get the points, not the end of the world.
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Old 02-09-2021, 03:30 PM   #13
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Default Re: Winches and functional scale points.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ScaleLifeNewbie View Post
What do you mean, "none like that on a 1:1"?

there's loads hidden winches on 1:1s

https://postimg.cc/ct1Lw682
https://postimg.cc/G9pRFW5W
https://postimg.cc/NKRvGBKH

That's the darndest thang I ever did see!

To our knowledge, there could be a massive servo behind that Tacoma's grille, and we wouldn't even know it

You see where Im going with this?
They don't look like a servo. They function, a bungie functions but neither are scale.

Last edited by MOguy; 02-09-2021 at 03:37 PM.
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Old 02-09-2021, 03:35 PM   #14
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Default Re: Winches and functional scale points.

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Originally Posted by Phildirt View Post
This thread is confusing me a little, I thought from the beginning he wanted to know if we thought a servo winch was considered scale from a points perspective, not from a 'would you see one under a real Jeep' perspective (of course not?) I mean as far as function/what you can see we're debating semantics at this point. I say show up at the next meet and see what happens, worse case scenario you don't get the points, not the end of the world.
no servo winches under a Jeep.

why do you get points for leaf springs vs coil springs?

why do you get points for a hardbody but not a Lexan body?

Scale:
https://www.definitions.net/definition/scale+model

Last edited by MOguy; 02-09-2021 at 04:43 PM.
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Old 02-09-2021, 05:49 PM   #15
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Default Re: Winches and functional scale points.

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Originally Posted by MOguy View Post
no servo winches under a Jeep.

why do you get points for leaf springs vs coil springs?

why do you get points for a hardbody but not a Lexan body?

Scale:
https://www.definitions.net/definition/scale+model

Dude I give up. Kind of familiar with the definition of scale. You started this thread asking if a servo winch was allowed, got a few opinions about why they possibly could be, and youíve come up with some plausible reasons why they shouldnít be. Not sure if you just want us to all be in agreement or what. You make good points. The best thing to do would probably be to ask the guys running your club or judging the next comp in your area if youíd get points for it. If you think you might not or are just fundamentally opposed to the concept then mount a functional scale winch on the front of your rig and roll out


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Old 02-09-2021, 06:23 PM   #16
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Default Re: Winches and functional scale points.

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Originally Posted by Phildirt View Post
You started this thread asking if a servo winch was allowed,

no I didn't.

just about winches and scale points and functional items.
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Old 02-09-2021, 06:40 PM   #17
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Default Re: Winches and functional scale points.

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Originally Posted by MOguy View Post
no I didn't.

just about winches and scale points and functional items.

No offense bud but you are kind of difficult to debate with haha.

When I say ďallowedĒ I mean ďworth pointsĒ.

Iím going to back slowly away from this one. Carry on.


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Old 02-09-2021, 06:57 PM   #18
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Default Winches and functional scale points.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MOguy View Post
They don't look like a servo. They function, a bungie functions but neither are scale.

if you are keeping it scale, then a servo which is still scale. Yes, it is a servo, but itís hidden and still does the exact same thing as a winch, correct? In my books, Servo winch=hidden winch.

Umm, Your not gonna use a bungee cord to pull a 1:1 out of the mud.

On a 1:1 they arenít pulling 4 body clips off to look under your truck body. In 1:1, they arenít giving scale points. In 1:1, they arenít busting out calipers/rulers to measure your tire size. Do you see where Iím going with this?

Anyways, do what you want, but This seems to be ďone of thoseĒ kinds of threads. Iím not sticking around much longer.




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Old 02-09-2021, 08:22 PM   #19
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Default Re: Winches and functional scale points.

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Originally Posted by ScaleLifeNewbie View Post
if you are keeping it scale, then a servo which is still scale. Yes, it is a servo, but itís hidden and still does the exact same thing as a winch, correct? In my books, Servo winch=hidden winch.

Umm, Your not gonna use a bungee cord to pull a 1:1 out of the mud.

On a 1:1 they arenít pulling 4 body clips off to look under your truck body. In 1:1, they arenít giving scale points. In 1:1, they arenít busting out calipers/rulers to measure your tire size. Do you see where Iím going with this?

Anyways, do what you want, but This seems to be ďone of thoseĒ kinds of threads. Iím not sticking around much longer.




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The bungie is functional but not scale. My understanding it is now assisted recovery as opposed to self recovery possibly and I am good with that. The servo winch is also functional but not scale and considered self recovery and I think that is fine. i just don't think it resembles anything or is scale. It is its own thing.

I never really did class 1 until recently. Where I comp Class1 is the only class that follows SORCCA. As I start to build a scale vehicle I just find somethings odd. Another one is functional scale point items that you could not use while competing. I see sand ladders screwed down and toe ropes glued down, how can they be considered functional?
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Old 02-10-2021, 05:22 AM   #20
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Default Re: Winches and functional scale points.

I get this thread now. Itís more of a rant as opposed to a poll. I approached it from the wrong angle

Scale accessories are primarily for appearance. You donít see guys filling up these rigs with those little jerry cans. The traction boards are useless because these rigs donít need them, too capable and light. You wonít see a guy pull out the tiny little axe and clear a trail with it...I could keep going but you get the point. The definition you shared covers these items comprehensively I think.

Class 1 requires bumpers, what would be their function besides appearance.? For scale looks.

You kind of answer your own question...anyways back to my coffee


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