Scale Rules/Scoring/Judging/Teams discussion

[cykb4117]

Originally Posted by BigJon

The whole point out, dnf, and dns I think should be simplified on a 10 gate course point out at 40, dnf 40- progress, and dns 50. We can us this as a base line. Say we have a 15 gate course than point out at 60, dnf 60- progress, dns 75. 20 gate course point out at 80, dnf 80- progress, dns 100. I think they got it right it is simplified so you can give the score on the spot.

Tell me what you think!

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Originally Posted by skerb

I like the way the rules and points just double for the 20 gate courses.
I say we use 20 gate courses from now on as a baseline with the dnf and dns points jon mentioned above.

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I like this idea with the 20 gate course

[QUOTE=Ajppsc;4447594]

Originally Posted by cykb4117

Scale Points:

Scale points are to be awarded at 100% of a vehicles total value (rounded down if necessary)
Minimum/Maximum values are to be determined by the event organizers or local clubs. Should be 45(NEEDS REVISION

*No items can be counted more than once unless noted otherwise*
*Functional items must be functional. Winch and lights must work

I disagree with this one, the scale calculator allows for a max of 95 scale points depending on what kinds of modifications you have done. There should not be a cap however if there is one we should cap it were the calculator cuts off. If you have put the time and the money into your build to make it look as scale as possible, then I believe you should be awarded for that. Please post your opinions as well. Thanks

That is a good point. The original rules also say to be awarded at 50% for each course. I agree that there should not be a cap. But i think it should be awarded one time at 100%. What does everyone think of that?

Originally Posted by skerb

• Winching can only be performed off of natural objects (i.e. trees, rocks, etc...), other vehicles, or stakes supplied by the course builder.
** All gates will have a winch point(NEEDS REVISION)
This is something we need to setup if there are obstacles with no way to get around, like our Grand Canyon Climb at the last event. This should be easy enough. Do you think we need winch points for all gates?

Did not finish (or point out): point out or high score on course +20 points
Did not start: Point out or high score on course +50 points

We need to figure out how many points for a DNF or a DNS, because I agree, you should not be able to get a better score by not finishing a course.

Courses:

I thought 50 gates was great however there is problems.Events could be comprised of 5 10 gate courses with a time limit of ten minutes per course. This allows for repairs between courses

I like the idea of shorter courses, but I would say we do perhaps (3) 15 gate courses rather than the 10 gates, this keeps the coures a bit longer but not so long. I personally like the longer courses. I know you were saying 10 because thats what in the rules we have, but I really like the idea of the longer courses. I can even see us go to (2-3) 20 gate courses.

I'll change the rules so they read "winch points will be available at gates the course designer designates as extremely difficult or otherwise impossible without". Would that work?

Originally Posted by Crawlininga

Yeah it does to me. What about if you can't clear a gate? Will it be like 20 for the gate not cleared plus the 10 for the touch and no progress on that gate? So it would be 30 points total?

We do need to figure this one out. I think the +30 will work.

Let me know if you agree/disagree and we start our changes above!

[skerb]

Originally Posted by cykb4117

I like this idea with the 20 gate course



That is a good point. The original rules also say to be awarded at 50% for each course. I agree that there should not be a cap. But i think it should be awarded one time at 100%. What does everyone think of that?



I'll change the rules so they read "winch points will be available at gates the course designer designates as extremely difficult or otherwise impossible without". Would that work?




We do need to figure this one out. I think the +30 will work.

Let me know if you agree/disagree and we start our changes above!

I agree with the above.

1. 20 gate courses with dnf and dns listed above.

2. 100% points awarded one time.

3. Winch points where they may be needed, as decided by course builder.

4. +30 for any gate you cant make. And your rear tires will be put as close to the plane of the gate you could not cleae as possible.



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[wilbywise]

Not to sound like a "naggar" but I do feel the Scale Point thing should have more strict ruling. EX#1 if you have napkins or cloth rolled into 5 sleeping bags on your truck - should be counted as 1. EX#2 More than one of the same scale item should be counted as 1 as well (coolers,tools,ropes,etc). However I do like the idea for being awarded more point for more figures in the car, would animals be included as well (EX#3 Dog inside or outside truck). Hope Im not making a commotion out of nothing, just interested to know!

[skerb]

Originally Posted by wilbywise

Not to sound like a "naggar" but I do feel the Scale Point thing should have more strict ruling. EX#1 if you have napkins or cloth rolled into 5 sleeping bags on your truck - should be counted as 1. EX#2 More than one of the same scale item should be counted as 1 as well (coolers,tools,ropes,etc). However I do like the idea for being awarded more point for more figures in the car, would animals be included as well (EX#3 Dog inside or outside truck). Hope Im not making a commotion out of nothing, just interested to know!

I think that is already how we were judging scale items.

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[cykb4117]

Originally Posted by wilbywise

Not to sound like a "naggar" but I do feel the Scale Point thing should have more strict ruling. EX#1 if you have napkins or cloth rolled into 5 sleeping bags on your truck - should be counted as 1. EX#2 More than one of the same scale item should be counted as 1 as well (coolers,tools,ropes,etc). However I do like the idea for being awarded more point for more figures in the car, would animals be included as well (EX#3 Dog inside or outside truck). Hope Im not making a commotion out of nothing, just interested to know!

I think the third line in post two covers multiple scale items. However I can re write it to be more specific.

I'm not sure about the animals. We use the scale calculator to add the scale items, that calculator does not have a spot for animals. However we could modify the rules to award points for animals under the functional or nonfunctional area. If there is intrest in doing so.

I personally don't like the fact you get points for "dolls/drivers"

I have also updated a few of the rules at the beginning, please let me know if there is an error or something needs changed/discussed.

[skerb]

Originally Posted by cykb4117

I think the third line in post two covers multiple scale items. However I can re write it to be more specific.

I'm not sure about the animals. We use the scale calculator to add the scale items, that calculator does not have a spot for animals. However we could modify the rules to award points for animals under the functional or nonfunctional area. If there is intrest in doing so.

I personally don't like the fact you get points for "dolls/drivers"

I have also updated a few of the rules at the beginning, please let me know if there is an error or something needs changed/discussed.

In the sorrca rules it specifically says "human, scale sized adult figures". Except for 3rd and 4th passengers can be kids. And the 3rd and 4 th passenger are only 1 point each.

Im not sure if animals should be counted as i think we would be opening a can of worms.

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[cykb4117]

Ya that is a good point. I also think it would be a good idea to make class 2 and class 3 courses different or at the very least change the gates to be more difficult rather than being to skinny. I would like to hear from some of the class 3 guys to see if that would be a good idea.

[wilbywise]

Word, Thanks for the clearance on that fellas. As I am not very keen on the whole action figure set in my rig as well. I was just thinking about it, didnt really do much reading before so sorry if this has already been covered!

[skerb]

What are we saying is the point out score on the 20 gate courses? I see that if you dnf or dns it is the point out score plus a specified amount.

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[hatefulboy]

in my opinion on the DNF/DNS, is about the worst thing that could happen to a driver. That being said, I think the score should be +50 added to the worst score that someone recieved. In other words, if I finished the course with the worst score of -10. The guy or gal that DNF/DNS should recieve a score of +40 for that course (-10 + +50). Opinions??

[Crawlininga]

I say on the DNF it should be the amount of gates not cleared x2 + 50 That way there is no mix up with the gates not progressed before time runs out.? Like a 20 gate course 20x2+50 does that make sense?

[hatefulboy]

Ok my take on winching. If we go to a timed course, no penalty. The penalty will be the time it takes to use it. But if we go without a timed course, then there should be a small penalty. Opinions?

Hand of GOD. I hope this is implemented. With penalty of course. More than winching but less than a gate. Opinions?

[skerb]

Originally Posted by hatefulboy

Ok my take on winching. If we go to a timed course, no penalty. The penalty will be the time it takes to use it. But if we go without a timed course, then there should be a small penalty. Opinions?

Hand of GOD. I hope this is implemented. With penalty of course. More than winching but less than a gate. Opinions?

If we instated a HOG I would think it would as much as a gate or more. Seeing as how a vehicle touch is as much as a gate.

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[cykb4117]

Originally Posted by hatefulboy

in my opinion on the DNF/DNS, is about the worst thing that could happen to a driver. That being said, I think the score should be +50 added to the worst score that someone recieved. In other words, if I finished the course with the worst score of -10. The guy or gal that DNF/DNS should recieve a score of +40 for that course (-10 + +50). Opinions??

Would you have a point out or no point out? If high score for a course is a +180 and you add a penalty of high score plus +50. One DNF could possibly put you out of the running for the entire comp.

Originally Posted by Crawlininga

I say on the DNF it should be the amount of gates not cleared x2 + 50 That way there is no mix up with the gates not progressed before time runs out.? Like a 20 gate course 20x2+50 does that make sense?

Would you have a point out score?

Ex: 18 gates progressed but DNF. So you could get a score of -36+50=+14
Ex. 20 gates progressed but hit 7 gates giving a score of -40+70=30

So the person who did not Finnish would get a much lower score.

With the point out at 80 you should be able eliminate that.

Ex: 19 gates progressed but DNF. Score would be 80-38=+42

[twilliamson]

Just my 2 cents but i believe we should look at this whole -/+ numbering system. it seemed to cause alot of issues last comp during the score calculating. (we discussed creating a App to do this but who know when that would be finished) It makes more since to me to have something like the following.

Gate Cleared 10 pts
Gate Hit 1 Side 5 pts
Gate Hit 2 Sides 0 pts

DNS - 0
DNF - 0

The Highest Score wins.. Im sure there are issues with my thinking here but i seem that we have so many rules we cant keep them straight any more.. K.I.S.S As someone kept saying last comp, After all we are out playing with RC Cars...

[Crawlininga]

What would be the best score on a 20 gate course? -40?

[cykb4117]

If you search in the App Store there is an app from radiocontrolledrock crawling.com that will make scoring a piece of cake

[skerb]

It's been a while since we discussed this, but after looking at many other groups courses I'm thinking aye we should go down to two 10 gate courses. This would make judging simple as well as make the whole comp go smoother. We could keep a decent course length but use boundary a more and only have 10 gates per course.

What do y'all think?

[cykb4117]

Sounds good to me. How many people do we need to agree to make changes; 5? Looks like we have 4 onboard for that change.

I have also been thinking about the 3 inch frame rule for class 2 and the front bumper width. The rules read the frame must be 3 inch's past the wheelbase.... but i think we could change that to 1 inch. This would allow anyone wanting to build a TJ/Fj/F-toy flexibility. If the wheelbase is the primary thing holding someone back.

The front bumper rule also reads it must be wider than the chassis. This doesn't seem like something we need.

Let me know what you guys think!

[skerb]

Originally Posted by cykb4117

Sounds good to me. How many people do we need to agree to make changes; 5? Looks like we have 4 onboard for that change.



I have also been thinking about the 3 inch frame rule for class 2 and the front bumper width. The rules read the frame must be 3 inch's past the wheelbase.... but i think we could change that to 1 inch. This would allow anyone wanting to build a TJ/Fj/F-toy flexibility. If the wheelbase is the primary thing holding someone back.



The front bumper rule also reads it must be wider than the chassis. This doesn't seem like something we need.



Let me know what you guys think!

I think the 3" frame rule keeps it more in the spirit of class 2. As does the bumper. Keeping sorrca rules helps us stay consistent as well.