Uh-Oh

[Texas Crawler]

Well, I guess I'll start with a bang and make my first build post a doozie (sorry SSD). While I very much enjoyed building this rig and am overall impressed with the design (50 degree steering are you kidding?!), I found edit: (one) issue along the way that I thought I should share with you guys and SSD for the purpose of disseminating the information I have gleaned and adding it to a record; also in order to propagate discussion on this new rig as well as attempt to initiate a process to resolve these issues so I can play with my new toy (why can't I contact SSD directly?...)

In order the issues I found: number one I feel the plastic is far too soft, being the only plastic I've ever stripped a screw in out of many kits- and I do not use power tools. I stripped at least 2 or 3 screws in the diff covers, and another 2 in the transmission. Also, I can easily bend the axles using a little force with my fingers, which is something not easily done on even the Element Enduro RTR axle (I checked again). This is unacceptable to me, kind of like the soft plastic fiasco of the Element rig (it's jelly). But again, more unacceptable that I'm stripping screws with very little torque application (and I think I'm paying for good plastic to boot).

Issue two omitted

Issue three omitted

Well anyway, if you made it this far, thanks for your interest and I apologize in advance if I hurt anyone's pride or ruined anyone's day- that was not the intent nor do I take the stand that this is not a quality rig (because I think it is). I also didn't want something like this to be my first post but it is what it is. I'll post some pictures now and wait for some replies. Thanks all



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[Texas Crawler]

Here are the pictures:

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[HumboldtEF]

So on the front bumper mount you've mounted it upside down, as for it being an issue with your particular servo all servos are different but you might have missed the step installing the servo horn which is pointing backwards so the bumper mount cant possibly be in the way. The picture in the manual makes it a bit hard to tell though.

I found the plastic just fine maybe a bit soft but no stripped holes on mine, I was actually impressed by how much I could tighten the tranny screws and how the plastic didn't crush down under this load.

My tranny had the same partial hole in the bearing pocket, it didnt really worry me too much as the forces on this are not pushing into this pocket but rather a rotational force. I dont foresee this being an issue.

The axle having flex in it is also unlikely to rear its head out on the trail unless you're bashing or jumping. under normal crawling conditions I doubt you'll ever get it to flex under the weight of itself.
There are metal tubes available if you'd prefer that.
https://www.rpphobby.com/product_p/ssd00229.htm
https://www.rpphobby.com/product_p/ssd00230.htm

[Texas Crawler]

After reviewing the manual yet again, it seems you are correct about the bumper mount. The servo arm I want to use does hit the frame rails very early in the cycle, but not those bumps like I originally had thought. I believe that was a memory from originally trying to mount it forward. But I do not understand why the bossed side of the mount would be opposite of the rear end orientation. Thanks for your help. I know about the available metal upgrades, but I feel it an unnecessary cost and something I shouldn't have to purchase in order to prevent stripped screws.

[HumboldtEF]

Originally Posted by Texas Crawler

It seems neither of us are correct on the bumper mount. After reviewing the manual, it has images indicating both orientations. The servo arm I want to use does hit the frame rails very early in the cycle, but not those bumps like I originally had thought. I believe that was a memory from originally trying to mount it forward. But I do not understand why the bossed side of the mount would be opposite of the one on the rear end.

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It looks like step 63 does show an image with it upside down but seeing how this isn't the step where you install it (and every other step displays it correct) its likely most folks will get this correct anyway, plus it can only be installed in one orientation.


The bosses aren't consistent front to back but I'm just not seeing the issue here but that's just my opinion.

I'm really not trying to write off your concerns but maybe you can elaborate on what your issue with this is.
SSD does browse these forums and he's likely to respond eventually.



A 20mm servo horn is recommended, if you use a longer one you may need to shave down the end.
I used a longer horn and I've done just that and ground off the end a bit, it would hit the panhard mount but just clears it now, It was the only servo horn I had.


I also swapped in a short rod end in place of the long rod end on the drag link shortening it (so they're both short ends now),



this puts the servo horn a bit more towards center (when the wheels are at center). So if your servo horn is hitting the frame doing this will free up some extra throw before it hits.






How long of a servo horn are you trying to use?


Post up some pictures of the interference you're running into.

I wonder if you might need and offset servo horn like this one? https://www.amainhobbies.com/ruddog-...p-0085/p538043

[Texas Crawler]

Originally Posted by HumboldtEF

It looks like step 63 does show an image with it upside down but seeing how this isn't the step where you install it (and every other step displays it correct) its likely most folks will get this correct anyway, plus it can only be installed in one orientation.


The bosses aren't consistent front to back but I'm just not seeing the issue here but that's just my opinion.

I'm really not trying to write off your concerns but maybe you can elaborate on what your issue with this is.
SSD does browse these forums and he's likely to respond eventually.



A 20mm servo horn is recommended, if you use a longer one you may need to shave down the end.
I used a longer horn and I've done just that and ground off the end a bit, it would hit the panhard mount but just clears it now, It was the only servo horn I had.


I also swapped in a short rod end in place of the long rod end on the drag link shortening it (so they're both short ends now),



this puts the servo horn a bit more towards center (when the wheels are at center). So if your servo horn is hitting the frame doing this will free up some extra throw before it hits.






How long of a servo horn are you trying to use?


Post up some pictures of the interference you're running into.

I wonder if you might need and offset servo horn like this one? https://www.amainhobbies.com/ruddog-...p-0085/p538043

The bosses being inconsistent is a non-issue besides me wanting to know the reason and whether the manual states true "proper" orientation. It is not true that it will install only one way, at least for me because mine will slide in either way, but the holes do not line up with the bosses toward the sky. No matter apparently. I am going to order the SSD servo arm and see if that works. Also, great tip on the rod ends, thanks I might use that. I still would like to see a response about the transmission issue and the softness of the plastic.

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[SSD]

I will answer each one of your issues...

Firstly, the SSD support email is on the bottom of every post I make here and we have contact page on our site so you can contact us directly.


You mounted the front bumper mount upside down. Step 48 shows the correct way to mount it. On the front the holes are not in the middle of the frame so the screws can only be installed if the mount is installed correctly. The rear one can be mounted either way as the holes are on the middle of the frame rails. So you can mount the rear one whichever way suits you.

The bumper mount fitting is not something SSD has come up with. In order to maintain compatibilty with Axial and bumpers we used the same frame mounting holes as the SCX10. Anyone who has had an Axial truck would be familiar with the front bumper mount fitting orientation.


Step 64 shows the correct orientaion of the servo and servo horn. It also says use a 20mm servo horn.


The transmission piece is not a deffective part. If you turn the part over you will see the gear clearance overlaps with with bearing housing in that spot. That is the result. There is no problem with it being like that. There is no load in that direction on the bearing. When handling the transmission case you should have also noticed it is very rigid so it wont move at all.
Which brings us on to plastic/nylon softness...


We dont believe the materials we use in our nylon products are too soft. They are flexible where necessary. In fact we used four different nylon blends in the Trail King kit. That's why the transmission case feels more rigid than the tubes. As it is important for the transmission case to not flex. However, it is important for the tubes to flex when pushed. We choose materials based on the characteristics needed on each part. For example, having very rigid tubes would have resulted in brittle tubes that break and broken link mounts on the tubes. These are not our first nylon products and we spend a lot of time on material selection.

Threads in plastic/nylon parts can be stripped very easily. Especially if the holes are pass through and not deep. Which is the case on some of the parts in this kit. You should stop turning when the screw is fully installed. No matter how soft the material is, threads only strip if you keep turning.
Also as you you are in Texas (I assume) then maybe high temperature is a factor? This may make it difficult for you to feel when to stop.

The Pro44 Center sections have actually been around for two years now so we know for sure they are fine. I dont think anyone has ever complained about them being too soft or stripping the diff cover screw threads. They are M2 screws, you need to be careful with them.

Sorry if it sounds like I'm blaming you. I'm not there to watch you build your truck so can only state my opinion based on the information given above and my knowledge.


Lastly, the Pro44 metal front tubes from the centered front axle will not work on this kit for two reasons:
1) Centered axles are not compatible with the new transmisison.
2) C hub fitting is different on the new kit axle tubes.

We are making new machined front tubes.

The Pro44 metal rear tubes can be used.

[Texas Crawler]

Thank you for your thorough reply. Your support information does not appear after every post for me; it doesn't even appear to me on the post I'm quoting, but I do now realize that it is on your website. Don't know how I missed that.

Yes I realize now that the bumper issue was not actually an issue. Thank you

Regarding building my kit, it was done in 73F indoors, so heat is not a factor. Why would it be good for the axle to flex under load besides very, very minimally? Isn't that bad for bearings and might bend the shafts? None of my other plastic scale truck axles bend under load while running, or this much with such small force applied by hand. This axle seems to have purely too much flex when compared to everything else on the market. What have you to say about Team Associated's hard plastics, then? They are VERY hard, but not brittle. They slide over rocks perfectly while not bending and maintaining their geometry, and I doubt anyone has had any breakage, I know I haven't. And I didn't strip ANY screws in that material. Why not go with something like that?

[SSD]

They don't bend with a small force. They flex at the mounting points before shafts are installed. It's a multipiece design with screws going through so that will happen. Once shafts are installed and the axles are fully assembled they are pretty solid. You are assuming they will have a problem. Our testing has shown otherwise. The multipiece axle design requires flexible material as they have screws going through them. Also axles with built in link mounts also require some flexibility to prevent link mount breakages.

[Texas Crawler]

Originally Posted by SSD

They don't bend with a small force. They flex at the mounting points before shafts are installed. It's a multipiece design with screws going through so that will happen. Once shafts are installed and the axles are fully assembled they are pretty solid. You are assuming they will have a problem. Our testing has shown otherwise. The multipiece axle design requires flexible material as they have screws going through them. Also axles with built in link mounts also require some flexibility to prevent link mount breakages.

I'm mostly just a little annoyed that the screws stripped so easily. Going back to your comments on the transmission, were you saying that the transmission was designed that way, and there is no molding error at all, or simply that it is an error which won't cause an issue?

[SSD]

Originally Posted by Texas Crawler

I'm mostly just a little annoyed that the screws stripped so easily. Going back to your comments on the transmission, were you saying that the transmission was designed that way, and there is no molding error at all, or simply that it is an error which won't cause an issue?

I realise it's annoying. Some peaple strip the cast alloy tubes threads also. It happend. Email support@ssd-rc.com for assistance.

It's not an error. Did you look at the other side of that part before assembling the transmision? From that side it make more sense. It's gear clearance, that's why the cut is curved on the side shown in your image.

[Texas Crawler]

Originally Posted by SSD

I realise it's annoying. Some peaple strip the cast alloy tubes threads also. It happend. Email support@ssd-rc.com for assistance.

It's not an error. Did you look at the other side of that part before assembling the transmision? From that side it make more sense. It's gear clearance, that's why the cut is curved on the side shown in your image.

I can't imagine anyone ever stripping metal tubes but I know there are those who are gorillas when wrenching on tiny trucks. Will do. And yes I did have a good look at the other side as well, and from what I remember it looked like sort of a jagged edge which made me think it was definitely some type of molding error. Good to know that it won't have to be replaced. Thank you for your time.

[new2rocks]

My kit went together great and I've been very impressed with the first runs, including running back-to-back with several of my other trucks for comparison. With regard to the nylon materials that SSD uses, I found that I had to be careful when screwing in some of the screws (esp. the screws attaching the tubes to the pumpkins), but this is no different from any other nylon or plastic parts on any other kit. I was reminded of this when I built an Enduro Element kit and did a minor overhaul of my 1.9 Wraith right after assembling the Trail King. It's just as easy (in some cases easier) to spin a screw on both of those trucks if you're not careful and sometimes even if you are careful.

[Texas Crawler]

Originally Posted by new2rocks

My kit went together great and I've been very impressed with the first runs, including running back-to-back with several of my other trucks for comparison. With regard to the nylon materials that SSD uses, I found that I had to be careful when screwing in some of the screws (esp. the screws attaching the tubes to the pumpkins), but this is no different from any other nylon or plastic parts on any other kit. I was reminded of this when I built an Enduro Element kit and did a minor overhaul of my 1.9 Wraith right after assembling the Trail King. It's just as easy (in some cases easier) to spin a screw on both of those trucks if you're not careful and sometimes even if you are careful.

I disagree with your sentiment that the plastic is just like any other kit- now in comparison with the Element rig I agree because it has extremely soft plastics. But to me the other rigs like Traxxas, Vaterra etc have way harder plastics that are MUCH more difficult to strip out. But then again here I am wondering why anyone ever complained about soft Axial plastic, because I never stripped a screw in that? I think the combination of short screws, pass through holes and semi soft plastic is the reason for stripping. Or maybe different batches are different. Or maybe we need to downsize our hands and muscles to tenth scale to work on our tiny trucks.