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Old 05-17-2020, 12:36 AM   #1
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Default Which Power Plant For TK

So I have my TK on order, turning up hopefully in a month or so, and have been slowly ordering the things I need to get this crawler going.

My question is about the power plant and esc it needs, and what have all of you who own one, put into your TK.

I have been looking at the 550 axe foc system combo, but am interested to hear what others put in it and how it performs.

I am not looking for basher speed.

Any imput would be appreciated to help me decide on what to get.
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Old 05-17-2020, 08:56 AM   #2
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Default Re: Which Power Plant For TK

Check out the electronics section for an in depth thread on people's thoughts on the Axe system. I have no personal experience with it though. My only theoretical complaint is that the Axe system uses a proprietary sensor harness, so you can only run the Axe esc with an Axe motor, unlike virtually every other sensored brushless on the market.

I have other rigs running Holmes puller pros with Castle Mamba x secs and they are phenomenal. Creeps almost as good as a brushed motor but with ridiculous torque if you need it. I'm leery to toss that much power into a rig with no slipper clutch, but others with better self control than I seem to run such combos without issue.

I can tell you that I'm running a cheapo sealed can 35 turn with stock gearing on 3s and have no complaints for the minimal money spent. Creeps along very well with enough pep to bump up ledges or clear small gaps, does about 5mph all wound out.
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Old 05-17-2020, 10:19 AM   #3
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Default Re: Which Power Plant For TK

I generally dont run brushless systems and cant comment on the axe system.
In my TK i run a Holmes Hobbies BR-XL esc paired with a HH torquemaster expert 30T on 3S, stock gearing will creep slower than any of my other rigs and never bogs down and has good wheel speed when needed. Definitely a parts breaker setup if your in a bind, so its perfect haha.
Runs cool in a 9+ pound rig, no complaints here. Most of my other trucks run Hobbywing 1080s and some sort of HH motors for general trail/rock crawling and its a great option on a budget.
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Old 05-17-2020, 11:20 AM   #4
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Default Re: Which Power Plant For TK

I started off with a HH Crawlmaster 540 13T on 3S and a 16T pinion, that was a bit too fast for my taste and lacked torque and finesse. I pulled that out and swapped in a HH Torquemaster 45T with a 12T pinion (also on 3S) and this provided a lot more torque and slowed the truck down a lot maybe a tiny but too much.

I used the Mamba micro X for both motors.

Once they're available again I'd like to try out a HH Crawlmaster 550 12T
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Old 05-19-2020, 11:25 AM   #5
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Default Re: Which Power Plant For TK

TK is light enough that you don't need a 550, any 540 will plenty powerful enough.

I put an SW4/Revolver 1800kv combo in mine. The HW Axe system is interesting but I hate the feel of their FOC and the fact that they use a proprietary sensor cable is a deal killer to me.

I'd recommend either an SW4 or Mamba X for the esc.

For a motor, pick your favourite. For me that would mean: HH Puller Pro, HH Revolver or a good 35Turn brushed.
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Old 05-19-2020, 03:48 PM   #6
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Default Re: Which Power Plant For TK

Add metal bumpers f&r, metal sliders, metal tube roll cage, and you may want that 550 sized can.

Still interested in the o.p.'s thoughts. Considering the 550 2700 for one of my SSD Kits. I like the AXE in my Red Cat. Coming from a bitter old snob like myself, that is saying something. lol At any rate, options are good. Opinions are fine so long as they are based on fact and even more relevant, use.

Used to run Roosters and then had the Castle Crawler setup that came out around 09. They had a specific esc/motor combo I don't recall. Got out around 2012 and not kept up.
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Old 05-20-2020, 08:38 AM   #7
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Default Re: Which Power Plant For TK

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Originally Posted by Timmahh View Post
Add metal bumpers f&r, metal sliders, metal tube roll cage, and you may want that 550 sized can.

Still interested in the o.p.'s thoughts. Considering the 550 2700 for one of my SSD Kits. I like the AXE in my Red Cat. Coming from a bitter old snob like myself, that is saying something. lol At any rate, options are good. Opinions are fine so long as they are based on fact and even more relevant, use.

Used to run Roosters and then had the Castle Crawler setup that came out around 09. They had a specific esc/motor combo I don't recall. Got out around 2012 and not kept up.
I will be adding most of the stuff you mentioned, as I have never had a crawler before, I am attempting to narrow down what to get to start with, without the constant changing and swapping out, and would rather spend on something decent.

That being said, its why I chose a TK for my first.

With the AXE system on your redcat, how did you find it compared to other setups you had?
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Old 05-20-2020, 09:28 AM   #8
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Default Re: Which Power Plant For TK

I have both the AXE 550 3300kv and Mamba X / Slate. Only difference is I have used both of these systems in the SCX10 III.

I like both systems a lot. The major differences to me between them are:

1. Axe is proprietary with their sensor plug but for good reason. If you are ever going to run in water and or mud this is the best sealed system you can get.

2. People complain about the Axe Motor / RMP matching. This actually works really well and with the firmware version can be turned off. Basically when the rig encounters resistance it will increase motor RMP to keep the same speed. It really makes the rig crawl more realistically and smoothly.

3. No throttle curve adjustment on the Axe. You can only adjust your expo on your Tx to smooth out the slow startup. I do like being able to adjust the throttle curve over expo on the Mamba X.

4. Mamba X will give slightly better punch. Not enough to choose this system over the other but there is a difference and the Mamba is better in this area.

5. The Mamba allows for more configurations since you can run 2S to 6S and you can run brushless or brushed. With Axe you can only use their motors and are limited to 3S. That is plenty for our crawlers but I also feel the versatility of the Mamba allows me to move this setup to another platform if I wanted to.

You really cannot go wrong with either system. They are both really damn good. Now as a person that has used both back to back in the same truck I can say if I had to buy a new ESC / Motor combo I would probably go with the Mamba X and whatever motor meets the needs for what I am doing.

Honestly I would go Mamba for the simple reason that you can set it up with many different motor combos. You can start with a cheaper HH Trailmaster Sport for $20 brushed and then move onto a brushless down the road while keeping the ESC. You may really enjoy a setup with the Mamba but your driving area may change where you want a different motor and with Mamba you can swap that easier.

Just my 2 cents from my experience with both systems.
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Old 05-20-2020, 06:12 PM   #9
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Default Re: Which Power Plant For TK

Quote:
Originally Posted by CriMiN4L View Post
I will be adding most of the stuff you mentioned, as I have never had a crawler before, I am attempting to narrow down what to get to start with, without the constant changing and swapping out, and would rather spend on something decent.

That being said, its why I chose a TK for my first.

With the AXE system on your redcat, how did you find it compared to other setups you had?
Hard to really compare as it was 10 yrs ago. but off memory it is easily better than the old systems in terms of rotor position info, roll off of power, software etc. 10 yrs alone will be enough of a technological change to make it hard to head to head compare anyways.

What I can say for sure, even in the short time I have used the Axe and been back into RC and Crawlers, if I had this system in my Moon Buggy build I had in 2010, It would have been unstopable. or nearly. It already was, but the control on the Axe setup is very very good. I still have everything set as stock in the RedCat Still.

Last edited by Timmahh; 05-20-2020 at 06:20 PM.
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Old 05-20-2020, 06:17 PM   #10
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Default Re: Which Power Plant For TK

Quote:
Originally Posted by $uicide $hift View Post
I have both the AXE 550 3300kv and Mamba X / Slate. Only difference is I have used both of these systems in the SCX10 III.

I like both systems a lot. The major differences to me between them are:

1. Axe is proprietary with their sensor plug but for good reason. If you are ever going to run in water and or mud this is the best sealed system you can get.

2. People complain about the Axe Motor / RMP matching. This actually works really well and with the firmware version can be turned off. Basically when the rig encounters resistance it will increase motor RMP to keep the same speed. It really makes the rig crawl more realistically and smoothly.

3. No throttle curve adjustment on the Axe. You can only adjust your expo on your Tx to smooth out the slow startup. I do like being able to adjust the throttle curve over expo on the Mamba X.

4. Mamba X will give slightly better punch. Not enough to choose this system over the other but there is a difference and the Mamba is better in this area.

5. The Mamba allows for more configurations since you can run 2S to 6S and you can run brushless or brushed. With Axe you can only use their motors and are limited to 3S. That is plenty for our crawlers but I also feel the versatility of the Mamba allows me to move this setup to another platform if I wanted to.

You really cannot go wrong with either system. They are both really damn good. Now as a person that has used both back to back in the same truck I can say if I had to buy a new ESC / Motor combo I would probably go with the Mamba X and whatever motor meets the needs for what I am doing.

Honestly I would go Mamba for the simple reason that you can set it up with many different motor combos. You can start with a cheaper HH Trailmaster Sport for $20 brushed and then move onto a brushless down the road while keeping the ESC. You may really enjoy a setup with the Mamba but your driving area may change where you want a different motor and with Mamba you can swap that easier.

Just my 2 cents from my experience with both systems.
Great head to head comparison of these two systems.
I do agree, being able to use 4S would make the Axe one hell of a crawling tool. Soft fingers can be swapped out for expo. lol But some of us are just ham fingered too. hahahahahhahahaha

Good hands on Use and difference of Capabilities of these units. Much appreciated.

as a side, how much did the castle setup run?
the Axe 550s will be 229 basically. how much was the Castle and Motor?
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Old 05-20-2020, 06:44 PM   #11
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Default Re: Which Power Plant For TK

Quote:
Originally Posted by Timmahh View Post
as a side, how much did the castle setup run?
the Axe 550s will be 229 basically. how much was the Castle and Motor?
The Castle Mamba X and Slate motor combos run for around 215. I bought mine used off a member on this forum however.
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Old 05-20-2020, 06:51 PM   #12
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Default Re: Which Power Plant For TK

Actually another plus for the Axe is it has Bluetooth programming capability built into the ESC and this is all at no extra charge.

For the Mamba X you will need to buy their programming card I think around $35.00 or you can buy their Bluetooth link and download their app but the link will cost around 45 or so.

So the 215 price goes up a bit if you want to program it
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Old 05-24-2020, 06:58 PM   #13
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Default Re: Which Power Plant For TK

I went with the 550 axe combo. I finally found one available so decided I would get that.

I was after a more plug and play type of setup, even tho the mamba X gives more versatility in motor selection.

I think the 550 combo should do the trick.
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Old 05-24-2020, 07:16 PM   #14
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Default Re: Which Power Plant For TK

Quote:
Originally Posted by $uicide $hift View Post
For the Mamba X you will need to buy their programming card I think around $35.00

Every Mamba X includes a mail in coupon for a free Castle link. Dont get the programming card, they cant adjust all of the crawler settings making it useless.


I just ran my TK with a HH Crawlmaster 550 12T and I think its a great fit, I paired it with a 11T pinion and the drag break is still strong enough to hold my heavy truck (8 lb 4oz). that gearing is close to walking speed and more for rocks than terrain requiring wheelspeed.
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Old 08-30-2020, 09:42 AM   #15
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Default Re: Which Power Plant For TK

Hello,

I just bought TK kit and thinking about following power plant:
AXE 2300 on 3s.
Any thoughts, is it too fast and may have low speed control issue?
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Old 08-30-2020, 07:27 PM   #16
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Default Re: Which Power Plant For TK

I've got three rigs with AXE 2300 systems in them, and I really like the AXE system in general. Slow speed control is very good. Drag brake is amazing. I don't mind the way FOC self-manages the motor RPM's to maintain speed. Some people hate that, though you can turn it off it you don't like it. The AXE system has some punch, but not a ton, especially by brushless standards. The AXE 2300 should be just fine in a Trail King, unless you are looking for big power or wheelspeed. I run 3S on all of them.

But in my two Trail King rigs, I am running brushed motors in both. One has a HH Trailmaster Sport 550 27T , and the other has a HH Crawlmaster Sport 540 16T. I don't think a 550 motor is necessary in a TK, but it also isn't overkill by any means. The only reason I am running one is that I just happened to have a 550 TMS 27T lying around. I prefer the smoothness of the 5-slot Crawlmaster Sport 540 16T over the slightly torquier Trailmaster Sport 550 27T.

Overall, the brushed motors are a touch smoother than the AXE system, but they are also less powerful. But again the AXE system isn't very punchy, compared to other brushless systems, so it's not a night or day difference by any means.
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Old 09-28-2020, 05:57 PM   #17
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Default Re: Which Power Plant For TK

Has anyone tried fitting a hobbywing fusion in? My TK is in the mail but Iím very curious to this powerplant. Seeing as how the 3D printed extended bell housing only pushes the engine block forward, would that be enough room to clear a 550/fusion?


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Old 09-28-2020, 08:07 PM   #18
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Default Re: Which Power Plant For TK

After a quick look I can say with confidence the fusion motor wont fit. The upper link mount on the axle will hit the motor before you get full compression. My 550 motor just barely clears (it actualy just kisses it) and this is only because of the endbell on the rebuildable necking down.

Beyond it hitting the axle it will fit under the motor cover but the oil pan wont fit with out some modifications. I had to cut up my oil pan to fit the 550.
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Old 09-28-2020, 08:31 PM   #19
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Default Re: Which Power Plant For TK

Quote:
Originally Posted by HumboldtEF View Post
After a quick look I can say with confidence the fusion motor wont fit. The upper link mount on the axle will hit the motor before you get full compression. My 550 motor just barely clears (it actualy just kisses it) and this is only because of the endbell on the rebuildable necking down.

Beyond it hitting the axle it will fit under the motor cover but the oil pan wont fit with out some modifications. I had to cut up my oil pan to fit the 550.

Shucks! Thanks for the info and checking


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Old 10-01-2020, 10:12 AM   #20
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Default Re: Which Power Plant For TK

Quote:
Originally Posted by RockCrawlingKid View Post
Has anyone tried fitting a hobbywing fusion in? My TK is in the mail but Iím very curious to this powerplant. Seeing as how the 3D printed extended bell housing only pushes the engine block forward, would that be enough room to clear a 550/fusion?


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I ended up putting the fusion in my TK, I had to cut two of the uprights off so it would clear the motor and bent the link so it went on the other side of the one remaining, ill get some pics and post them for you when i can.

I still want to print up a thin piece to add to its thickness of the one upright remaining, and find some good strong glue.

Other than that, with those two uprights removed, it gives full compression without it hitting.

I am not using the motor cover and oil pan at all, but that is for other reasons.

If i find that to much stress is there I might end up going with an alloy centre, but I am a long way off from truly seeing what its like.
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