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Old 04-03-2011, 02:53 PM   #1
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Default Exceed Mad Torque - Extensive Review and build thread

There have been a few of these crawlers popping up in build threads here on this forum. I figured I would do a little different and post an extensive review (please note extensive) with some free/cheap/easy mods to get this thing to be closer to competition ready.



So, to start off, I got mine through NitroRCX.com for $159 (an ARTR version without a radio is $139) and since they ship from California, I got it very quick, about 3 or 4 days. I've always had good luck with the Nitro Models family of web stores (hobbypartz, xheli, nitrorcx, etc) so I've come to expect that from them.

I was going to take some pics of the unboxing, but really, there's nothing exciting about that. There are a ton of detailed pictures of the vehicle on NitroRCX's website, so I won't repeat those pics.

The vehicle comes fully assembled and ready to run, including:

2.4ghz Radio
3000mah 6 cell 7.2v NiMh battery and charger (battery has bullet plugs installed)
User manual
Decal Sheet
Shock pre-load clips
Extra servo horn

I am a little surprised that it didn't come with a wheel wrench. They can be found cheap and some people have 17mm sockets they can use if they need to (more about this in the wheels/tires section.)

First thing I did was get the battery on the charger and start flipping through the user manual.


Battery/Charger
The battery and charger are the basic 'plug-it-in-the-wall-and-wait-overnight' type of NiMh chargers. The connectors are the 4mm bullet connectors you find on a lot of batteries that come from overseas. I ran these connectors for the first run to see if I would notice a difference. They seemed fine, but are bulky and difficult to disconnect, so I ended up changing to deans plugs.


User Manual
I was initially impressed with the user manual. It's actually a step by step build manual. Other previous Exceed RTR's that I've seen usually have a general 'manual' with only exploded views that make it a little difficult to see what is what. I appreciate that it actually shows how to put it together and in what order.

The diagrams are very clear and there's hardly any engrish (only thing that stuck out was 'disks fixing tire' for the beadlock rings) and there's a parts list (with diagrams) and option parts list as well.

There was also a seperate sheet for the radio and the esc, written in plain english, as well as some extra decals in case you wanted to use them.

While I was waiting for the battery to finish charger, I decided to take a look over the vehicle and make a few notes.




Initial Impression, Overall design:

Body
I actually like the body for this, it is sitting pretty low on the chassis, especially compared to other Exceed crawlers I've seen, and doesn't really need any trimming to clear the tires or shocks, etc.
It looks to be very similar to the Pro-line Crowd Pleazer bodies.
I do actually like the paint scheme on the body though. (I even had a fellow crawler ask me who painted it for me.)
One gripe is that the body mounts on the side, but that is pretty minor, and more of my personal preference.


Tires/Foams
I was initially impressed with the compound of the tires; they seemed sticky enough, probably similar to Pro-Line's M2 compound and the tread pattern is crawler specific. A lot of these type of crawlers use knock-off treads, but I can't see any similarities with a major brand. To me that seems like they are actually doing their own engineering and designing. The tires are about 6.25" tall, and are short compared to most super class crawlers.

I am very disappointed in the foams though. They are a flat foam curved around the rim, with a glue seam, and they are too stiff and too short. The glue seam isn't bad necessarily, but the glue they used is a little stiff compared to a normal 3M spray glue. With the foam being too short, the tire has room for slop, and I definitely recommend getting different foams for the tires.


Wheels
The wheels are true beadlock with anodized aluminum rings, 2.8" diameter x 2.8" wide with 17mm hexes. This makes them to small to be used in any USRCCA sanctioned comp where the minimum is 3.2" diameter. If your local competitions do not mind, you may be able to just use these wheels. They do seem to hold a bead very well, but being plastic, I am afraid the screw threads will strip similar to most plastic beadlocks. If this happens, an easy fix is to get 2-56 hardware which is slightly larger than the M2 screws that it comes with.


Suspension/Linkage
The suspension includes plastic bodied oil filled shocks, aluminum 3 link design linkage, with the shocks mounted to the lower links. The shocks seem smooth, and the spring rate seems appropriate for the size of vehicle. The links and rod ends seem small though, using M3 set screws and 7mm aluminum links. I will upgrade those when I get to that stage of the review.

One thing I don't like is that the location where the shocks mount to the links causes a little bit of slop, and the motor-side shock does interfere with where the wire connects to the motor. There's a simple fix for the interference below, but the 'slop' is inherant in mounting the shock to the links. Also, the top of the shocks mount on the inside of the chassis, in what I think is an awkward position.

The lower links are not triangulated, probably to more easily clear the motor, but do allow a little bit of axle swing, and thus instability. The upper links are a 3-link 'Y' design with a little more slop on the axle side of the linkage. When I change out the links, I will change the upper links to a 4-link set up to reduce the slop in this area.

To be fair, most RTRs come with a link set-up like this.


Chassis
The chassis is a pretty basic TVP design with a little room for adjustment, made from more anodized aluminum. The battery is designed to be mounted on the skid plate, nice and low, which is something I didn't expect from a crawler this inexpensive, with the electronics mounted on a mid-plate (which is just another skid plate mounted above the battery.)

I've seen a few of the other guys chop the chassis for their builds, but I would like to see a longer chassis to get the shocks to mount on the axle rather than the links. This can be done by either making your own chassis or buying one from the vendors on this forum. I plan to make a 'bodiless' style chassis for this in the near future.


Axles
These are motor-on-axle design, made from plastic, in a 3 piece design. I'm not sure of the plastic compound, but they do seem to be a much better plastic that what you would expect at this price. More testing will show whether they can stand up to competition abuse. They are 3 piece design meaning there's a center gear box and a left and a right tube, with the c-hubs built in to the tubes. This is a little strange, since if the c breaks, you have to replace the entire tube (which is only a few bucks.)

The knuckles are also plastic and seem to be based on the AX10 knuckle, and other users have confirmed that AX10 knuckles will swap directly on with no modifications. This means you can find inexpensive knuckles or "zero ackerman" or "high clearance" knuckles for this crawler.

I will go into more detail about the internals a little later in the review, but from what I have seen the gears are all hardened steel, and seem to hold up to some good abuse.


Electronics
I will go into more detail on the electronics after I post info on the first run.

The motors are a closed end-bell 70T 540 type, powered by a dual motor crawler ESC which is capable of up to 7 cell Nickel batteries. You can run 2S LiPo on this ESC, but you will need some sort of low voltage cut-off to prevent over-draining the battery. There is no programmability or dig function with this ESC, but that is expected with an RTR esc.

The included servo is around 200 oz-in and is mounted to a plate on the axle very similar to the way the AX10 does it. (The servo plate looks very similar) although the servo is a little higher than I would prefer, and definitely under-powered for a vehicle this size, especially if you want to install bigger tires. The servo linkage is similar to the suspension linkage, and seems to hold up just fine.

The crawler does include a rear plate, and the rear axle has knuckles installed to make it easy to convert to rear steer. All you need is the "Truck Conversion Kit" in your favorite color, a y-harness, and a second servo. (If you want to switch between 4WS, Crab walk and Front only steer, you will need at least a 3 ch radio with that functionality.)


Radio System
More and more RTR vehicles are including 2.4GHz radio systems, and this is no exception. The radio seems to be based on the Fly Sky FS-GT2 "platform" with the receiver resembling the RC4WD XR4 receivers. I suspect that the radio is compatible with most of the Version B Fly Sky receivers, as well as the RC4WD receivers as well. I have not confirmed this though, it is just a suspicion. The receiver comes already bound to the radio.

It is only a 2 ch transmitter, but strangely has a 4 ch receiver. The transmitter is comfortable and lightweight, using only 4 AA batteries. There are trim knobs for the throttle and steering center point as well as dual rate knobs and reverse switches. The transmitter also has a charging port on the back of it, but does not include a charger.

The wheel has good travel and spring, but does bounce a little if you let go at full lock (most inexpensive radios do this though) and the throttle trigger feels nice with good travel as well. I actually really like this design, and think it is one of the more comfortable controllers I have ever used.


Miscellaneous
The vehicle comes with a bumper which can get in the way if you approach a rock head on, but is very easy to remove. I assume they installed it with the intention of protecting the servo linkage, which it does, but is in the way the rest of the time.

The vehicle does use all hex hardware, which is definitely appreciated, and makes it easier to prevent stripping screw heads. Also, it has become expected, but does use bearings throughout.

Parts can be found through hobbypartz or nitrorcx, and again, since they are coming from California, you shouldn't have to wait too long for them. Honestly, most of the replacement parts for any of my major brand vehicles I need are not in stock at my LHS and they usually have to order them anyway. From what I have seen with previous Exceed vehicles, they are usually really good about keeping these parts in stock.


Overall Impression
I am pretty impressed with the bang-for-the-buck aspect of this vehicle. It seems that a lot of features you would expect from more expensive vehicles are included, and that Exceed is finally getting a little more serious about their products. It's not perfect, and not competition ready out of the box, but for a beginner or someone looking to get into supers, this is one inexpensive option that seems to be a good base with good potential.


Next steps:
I will post my findings after the first run with the vehicle exactly as it comes out of the box.
After that, I will show a few simple mods you can do for free or very cheap and more info about what those mods will do for the vehicle.
Finally, I will show what it takes for this to be competition ready, and what 'more advanced' mods I will do to it.


If you have any questions about this vehicle or any of the mods I have done to it, please feel free to post them on this thread. Thanks for looking, I will post more information on this crawler soon!
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Old 04-03-2011, 03:11 PM   #2
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Great write man Can't wait to see the mods you plan to do

My 'Torque has been holding great, just a few breaks here and there that just needed some cheap fixes and its back on the rocks.
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Old 04-03-2011, 03:42 PM   #3
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Nice write up... I just fnished the final setup up of my Madetorque for Comp last night and gave it a really good test run for durability Comp ready... I'm very impressed with this thing... The only issue I've found is that if you put the larger tires on it, the stock motors and ESC have to go, they just can't handle it in a bind. 2S works pretty good but if you use the 7S NIMH pack, you get the best results with the eletrinics set up.

The only issue I had wiht mine out the the box is that the short side dog bones worked the most of the way out after 4 hours of just with 4WS and the center dif was defective from the factory. Tech suport told me to take it apart and confirm the issue then with in 5 days I had all the replacment parts for free in my mail box... I was impressed.

I can't wait to see what else you have to say about this truck... you write well. Thanks again.
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Old 04-03-2011, 07:32 PM   #4
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Excellent write up ! Straight to the point and no punches pulled ! I like that ! Best Bang for the Buck, IMO. I had a small bearing fail and Nitrorcx had (2) new ones at my door 3 days later, for free ! I will be watching this and all M/T write ups closely, Thanks !
Smitty
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Old 04-03-2011, 07:40 PM   #5
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Thank you guys for the comments, I'm really impressed with this thing so far. I really think this is the type of vehicle that will get people into Super Class crawlers, and is a pretty strong, yet inexpensive platform to build off of.
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Old 04-03-2011, 07:40 PM   #6
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Default Part 2 - After initial test run, impressions and mods



Alright, I got this thing on the rocks and got a little bit of driving in at the world famous Red Rocks. This place is closed to the public, and I was lucky enough that we were able to have a competition here (although I didn't compete) which allowed me access to drive around on the terrain. Here are my thoughts on certain aspects of the crawler after the first run:


Battery
The battery that comes with this is 3000mah, and definitely gave me plenty of run time with all the stock components. I was able to do about an hour and a half of light to medium crawling, which equtes to maybe 45 minutes of straight runtime.

I didn't like the bullet connectors, so I swapped to deans to allow me to use more of my batteries and make it easier for me to charge with my multi-charger in a whole lot less time than the stock charger.

I'll be swapping to LiPo though very soon.


Body
The body held up just fine, and the shape helped it roll to a position I could get flipped back over, if I needed to, but isn't the perfect design. I got quite a few compliments on the paint scheme of the body, and as I said above, one guy even asked me who painted it for me.


Tires/Foams
The tires really started to show their weakness. The compound is ok, but could be a little stickier, and the tread pattern is fine, but the foams and lack of vents or weights in the wheels left a lot to be desired on the rocks. If you notice in the video (see below) there were a few places that better tires would have had no issues with. Adding weight to the rims and drilling two vent holes in the rims helped, but if you want to keep these tires, you need to change the foams to something better for crawling.

I ended up getting a great deal on a set of used Pro-Line Moabs mounted to some Axial 40 series beadlocks, so I will be running these until I get my 2.2 tires to chop up for the treads. (Probably rovers, but might look at some of the 1/8th scale buggy pin tires.)

Here are the stock wheels and tires next to the larger Moab/Axial 40 series wheels as well as on the truck:






Suspension/Linkage
After the first run, I moved the shocks one hole outward on the lower links and the top of the shock to the outside of the chassis (where the brace is) and noticed some better suspension response.

In stock form, the shocks allow too much articulation. While it may look cool to have the rear axle articulated to 90 degrees, it will cause problems on the rocks. The general rule of thumb is the articulation should be limited to about the height of your tires. By moving the shock more upright (and doing nothing else yet) that has solved the over-articulation.

Here's some pics of how the suspension looks with the changes and how the lower shock mount clears the motor:





As I was saying above, the lower links need to be better triangulated. I will be ordering material to make links very soon, and will make a new skid plate that will allow better triangulation to keep the axle in control.

Lastly, I will extend the wheelbase out to 17.5 so that at full compression the wheelbase will be at the USRCCA legal maximum 18".




Chassis
There's not much to say about the chassis yet. It's hard to compare it until I make a new one or change something about it. I do think it should be about 2 - 3 inches longer to allow the shocks to mount on the axle, as well as overall shorter, but I will address that when I do the bodiless chassis.




Axles
The axles held up fine on the first run. No noise, no troubles. I assume I will need to grease them, which I will do before the next run, but otherwise, no complaints here other than the limitations of the steering. It comes down to the dogbones not allowing the wheel to turn any further.

If you look in the pic below you can see there is plenty of room for more. Also in the video, you can see that there was a place I had to take a few reverses to get lined up to make the climb. In a comp, this would have cost a few points.

Adding dig and rear steer helps, but if we can find a CVD solution for these, we would be golden.



I do have an idea on how to "clock" the gear box on the axles, but I will need to mess around with it to make sure it will work, and hold up to the abuse it needs to. This will allow the motors to get up out of the rocks, but keep the steering on the right axis of rotation.


Electronics
I was actually pretty impressed with the ESC's drag brake with the stock motors. I assumed there would be none, but there was enough to hold it on a fairly steep hill. After swapping to bigger tires though, the drag brake became less effective. Also there was a LOT more clod stall with the larger tires.

I added a simple dig switch. (There's a write up in the Berg section) and it works less than what I expected. These motors have almost no dead-short drag with the large tires, so it was more of a freewheel switch than a dig switch. I ordered a punk switch, but it won't do anything about the lack of drag for these motors.

I'll be looking to get some 55t motors, probably some Integy or Venom Fireball motors, with some stiff brush springs. I'll also be putting a different esc in, I haven't decided if I want to get a 2nd stock motor to have drag dig, or go with one sidewinder and the punk dig, or go big with 2 sidewinders. If I go with dual ESC, I will have to redesign my radio to accomodate it.





Also, as with most MOA designs, the motor is pretty exposed, and took a little rock rash from crawling. I'll be making some simple/inexpensive skids to protect the motors.



Lastly, the stock servo is very weak for the stock tires, and even more for the larger tires. Really you need to shoot for about 400 oz-in for servo power to make sure they will point where you want them to. I will be ordering some very strong servos and the rear steering kit very soon.


Overall Impression After First Run
The stock tires leave something to be desired, even with weight and vents. The torque of the motors is fine for the stock tires, but bigger tires need stronger motors.
There are a few things to change to make to get this where I want it, but honestly any of the other Super Class axles will need some work to get them dialed in, these are just a lot less expensive. Most competitors use aftermarket or custom built chassis, tires, link, and motors, so changing those is pretty common for the class.

I got quite a few positive comments while I was driving this around, and a lot of the local veteran crawlers were impressed with the design and capability, and could see the potential in this vehicle. It still needs work to be competition ready, but it is getting much closer to that point.




Next Modifications
Install Punk Dig
Upgrade Motors
Design and install custom Bodiless Chassis
Upgrade Links
Upgrade Servos
Move battery to axle
Cut and Shut better tires
Narrow Wheels
and more!

Here's the video of the initial run. Honestly it is a little boring, but shows a few of the initial weaknesses. I will be making a follow up video to show how it handles a little better with the modifications done to it.


Youtube Video - Stock Mad Torque

Last edited by monkeyracer; 04-03-2011 at 11:16 PM.
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Old 04-03-2011, 07:57 PM   #7
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Nice job!....good luck with it.
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Old 04-03-2011, 08:58 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GREEDY GENIUS View Post
Nice job!....good luck with it.
Thanks! It has been fun so far, but I've only done solo crawling on the rocks with it. It is a totally different scenario in a competition, and I can't wait until the first one to see how it does.

Last edited by monkeyracer; 04-03-2011 at 09:07 PM.
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Old 04-03-2011, 10:33 PM   #9
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There goes my wallet, getting lighter and lighter with every mod you guys do (LOL)
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Old 04-03-2011, 11:08 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XtrmTJ View Post
There goes my wallet, getting lighter and lighter with every mod you guys do (LOL)

One thing that I want to keep in thsi build is a focus on budget mods. I am currently unemployed, so cash flow is very low right now, and anything I do to this has to be either cheap or free. Once I gain employment again, I will be able to get some of the not free stuff, but still don't want to drop a ton of cash on some crazy motor or servo.

I'm working on the bodiless chassis design right now, hopefully I will have a rendering up by tonight.
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Old 04-04-2011, 12:07 AM   #11
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Ok, youtube video is up (link in part 2 review post at the bottom)

Here's my initial concept for the Karnage XL Super Class Bodiless Chassis that I plan to use for this:



There will be a few minor changes as I go through the design to make sure it will work the way I want it to.

Also, I will post a 3D rendering soon that explains the middle section (the part that is basically the top of the door.)
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Old 04-04-2011, 12:32 PM   #12
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Here's the 3D rendering of the chassis:



This has no body panels on it. The chassis is fully legal once I put panels on it.

I'll probably end up cutting this myself out of either 1/8" lexan or delrin (depending on what I can get for fairly inexpensive.)

Last edited by monkeyracer; 04-04-2011 at 01:05 PM.
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Old 04-04-2011, 12:48 PM   #13
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the lexan will be to flexable
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Old 04-04-2011, 01:07 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by asw27x View Post
the lexan will be to flexable

Worked fine on my Karnage Chassis. It's actually very similar to delrin at the 1/8" thickness as far as flexibility, you just have to brace it right.
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Old 04-04-2011, 01:30 PM   #15
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I like your design.

Just a note about running lipos on the stock esc. I couldnt find in the manuel if it had a cut off or not but when i run my lipos on it it stops around 5 volts. So im thinkin it has a cut off.
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Old 04-04-2011, 03:35 PM   #16
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i like the chassis the one thing i would like to see is a tab off the front of the skid
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Old 04-04-2011, 03:53 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Abavuso View Post
I like your design.

Just a note about running lipos on the stock esc. I couldnt find in the manuel if it had a cut off or not but when i run my lipos on it it stops around 5 volts. So im thinkin it has a cut off.
All the manual says is limit 8.4V, so I don't think it has a lipo cut-off (5v seems really low for a LVC setting.)

If I use lipo on the stock ESC, I will just stop when I see the power drop. For anyone reading the review, I recommend using a Low Voltage Cut-Off device to help protect your battery, esc, etc.

Quote:
Originally Posted by asw27x View Post
i like the chassis the one thing i would like to see is a tab off the front of the skid
I haven't really done any work to the skid plate yet. I will mount the lower links inboard of the chassis. What tab off the front of the skid would you like to see? What would you use it for? I plan to be able to fit all of the electronics (even if I do Dual ESC) on the skid, with the battery on the front axle.

I have been considering using 1/4" delrin for the chassis, which would make it super beefy,and I already have a piece of delrin just waiting to get cut. (I'd rather get it laser cut or milled, but might settle for the dremel to go the inexpensive way.)
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Old 04-04-2011, 05:32 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by monkeyracer View Post
I have been considering using 1/4" delrin for the chassis, which would make it super beefy,and I already have a piece of delrin just waiting to get cut. (I'd rather get it laser cut or milled, but might settle for the dremel to go the inexpensive way.)
I would personally step it down to 3/16th inch delrin. The chassis I designed for v84x4 - Twin Freak Super Shafty was 1/4in delrin and in my opinion it was "Super" over kill. 1/8th if designed and braced properly will hold up just fine but for piece of mind, I would go with max 3/16th, at least with that material IMO.

If you want Laser cut PM me and I'll show you who I use, you'll have your parts in about 5-10 days and it's reasonable priced.
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Old 04-04-2011, 05:39 PM   #19
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I made a scaler chassis out of this material and it is definitely beefy, but hidden. For a bodiless, it would maybe be just a little much. I already have a 12" x 24" sheet of white 1/4" delrin, so I was considering it, but will probably get a 12x12 sheet of the 3/16 to cut this chassis and a few little pieces.

PM sent about laser cutting.
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Old 04-17-2011, 01:18 PM   #20
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So when you gonna post the part 2 video???? Cant wait to see some action!!!
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