RCCrawler Forums

blue10 · 08-20-2010, 01:27 AM

Ok, I've not been much of a build-thread type. Not that I don't want to, I just always forgot to take pics while I was building. Back in '06, right about this time of year, I built my first super. The usual, clod axles, my own chassis and links, tiny little 333oz servo on each axle. The big "feature" was the badass 7 or 8 pounds of RC4WD 40 Series beadlock wheels. Remember, this was back when beadlocks were not so common; hence the badessedness.

For more than three years I comped this truck, falling in and out of 2.2 comping, but always keeping this as my "primary" truck. The only real change I made to it was switching from those massively heavy wheels to some lighter Proline Cheyenes and the Moabs were replaced with Moab XL's and then later G8 XL's. Of course getting away from the silly Novak Super Rooster esc's became a priority as soon as drag brakes became interesting and I grabbed a pair of Mama Max'es with some real drag brake. For extra fun, I tossed the stick pack that used to strap onto the front upper links and got myself some LiPos.

At the beginning of 2009, PARC started comping 1.9's and now I had three trucks, so I had to paint them all matching schemes and the old Clod Super got a new body. The Honda Odyssey body had to go anyway.

At the end of the 2009 season, the work of comping three classes in one day, often judging most of the day, and then going home and entering all the scores into our club's score keeping software, was getting to be a drag. I had to retire one of the trucks to make my comp day a little more relaxed and fun.

The old clod was starting to break more often and parts for the clod axles were getting harder to find. I was burning out on comping all three classes and for months was struggling with which truck to retire. Supers were way to cool and way too fun to drive and I usually finished pretty well. Mini's were way too cool and way too fun to drive and I usually finished pretty well. 2.2's were of course by now, the bread and butter of crawling, and even though all the young new hotshots were kicking my ass down to mid-pack finishes, I couldn't get rid of the 2.2.

I was barely keeping the clod together, but the last straw came when the YTC guys started showing up in Phoenix with these crazy bicycle-wheeled, ultra light weight Supers that ran like 2.2's. Suddenly, the old clod that had stayed technologically current for more than three years, was not just tired, it was dang near obsolete. It had gotten to where if I was going to be the least bit competitive against these new-fangled buggies, I was going to have to completely rebuild the clod.

Screw it. The rig, with its third set of broken gears in as many comps, went on the shelf at the beginning of the 2010 season and I enjoyed a season of comping only two trucks and relaxing and having a good time at the events.

Ha! Who was I fooling, I wasn't going to stay away from Supers. During that leisurely season with no Super, my father-in-law built a Super. He loves to build and sometimes builds just for the sake of building. He liked the looks of Jeremy's SuperJuice, so be made something similar of his own.

A bodiless chassis of his own design, SuperBully medium width axles, 3.2 wheels, custom made HB Rover tires, hard annodized high-clearance links, two huge Mamba Max Pro esc's, a Castle BEC Pro, and a pair of powerful 7950 running at 7 volts.

The rig ran well. Throughout the season, he'd offered to let me comp it anytime I'd like, and I kept declining. Finally for the last comp of the season, I gave in and drove it.

That was it. PARC's season was done for the summer and all that was planned was to spend the summer getting ready for Nationals. After driving the "new style" Super, I was re-hooked. I was planning on building a whole new rig from the ground up.

Then my father-in-law mentioned that he had no plans to ever drive that Super again, so I asked him if he wanted to sell it. It was already 90% of everything I wanted to build. His reply, "I'll tell you what, I want one of those XR10's when they come out, you buy me one of those and we're even."

Holy crap!! I'd enter him for Father-In-Law Of The Year if there was such a thing.

So now with only two months till Nationals, I want to change a few things to get ready. This is where the build thread catches up to real time, August 2010.

Step 1: I ordered a 4PK radio. The stick was just not getting it for me. I fought with that thing for four years. I was constantly making more mistakes with the twin sticks than I was getting benefit of infinite control of rear steer and rear motor. First outing with the Futaba was great. I was instantly driving better than I ever could with the DX6. I was able to match Mike (azvader) line for line where previously I'd be finding ways around.

Step 2: The chassis. Of course, once again, I forgot to take picks until I was knee deep in the tear down. To backtrack, I just set the original chassis in the middle of the pile of disconnected links and wires and snapped a couple "before" pics.

The tear down was complete, axles, motors and electronics got a lot of dust cleaned off them and I was ready to build.

An hour later, I had this:

So now that I'm completely up to date on four years worth of build threads for the Super, I plan to keep this up to date.

I still have to squeeze all the electronics into the chassis, and then decide if I want to use the Maxximizer 3.2 wheels and make up some SuperSedona3.2's, or chop up the old Moab XL's and make 40 series Sedona40's on the old Cheyene wheels. Either way it's narrowing wheels. Any ideas from some of you who may have run both 3.2 and 40's in Rover/Sedona chops?

I also have some goodies in the mail for this build. Stay tuned.

TheOther · 08-20-2010, 09:17 AM

Hi Jim,
hahahaha i like the building story of your rigs.
It was a very good deal with your father in law, tell him i send him also a second xr10 for a super

Greetings - Sascha

blue10 · 08-20-2010, 02:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheOther

Hi Jim,
hahahaha i like the building story of your rigs.
It was a very good deal with your father in law, tell him i send him also a second xr10 for a super

Greetings - Sascha

Ich will frage Er....

Ja, Ich sprache ein bischen Deutsch, aber wie zwiejahr Kind.

JeremyH · 08-20-2010, 02:16 PM

Looking good! You are gonna like that chassis! Are those the 38:1 gearcases?

blue10 · 08-20-2010, 02:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JeremyH

Looking good! You are gonna like that chassis! Are those the 38:1 gearcases?

Thanks.

I can't be sure about the ratios. The front case is a cast zinc that the FIL installed to add weight to the front, along with cast knuckes. I'll have to ask him what he did up front. The rears I'm sure are out of the box Bully gearing, but I'd have to confirm that with him as well.

It's problably coincidence, but the length and width of the skid and all the mounting locations were nearly identical from the home-made chassis to the BJ. So I already have a very good idea how it's going to drive. Of course there will be more tuning needed.

One of the bigger reasons to go with the BJ over the one-off chassis, that the FIL used Kydex for the upper portion of the chassis and it flexed way too much around the shock mounts. The added rigidity will be appreciated.

JeremyH · 08-20-2010, 02:30 PM

If they are the cast housings, then it is probably the 38:1 ratios. I think RC4WD only makes the 65:1s in the machined housings. I couldnt keep my gear pins in one piece with the 38:1 gears. The 65:1 gears use set screws to hold them together. I have had no breakage since switching to them.

blue10 · 08-20-2010, 03:13 PM

Then I'll definitely have to ask the OG on this build, because it's cast front case on machined tubes, and fully machined in the rear. Is it possible he used all the same gearing in the two cases? Will it fit?

MTHead · 08-20-2010, 04:02 PM

No, at least as far as I know. The gear cases are made different so the 38:1 gears can not be switched with the 65:1 within the same case. There is a noticeable difference in the cases, if they look the same then your good but I'm not sure if they made a machined case that ran the 38:1 gears..

JLF · 08-20-2010, 04:12 PM

Great story!

Im going to have to search those 'bicycle wheeled' supers!

JeremyH · 08-20-2010, 04:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blue10

Is it possible he used all the same gearing in the two cases? Will it fit?

MtHead is right....the 65:1 cases have an extra gear....they wont transfer over...

jeepron · 08-20-2010, 04:29 PM

got any better pics of the front servo mounts?, oh and that chassis looks HOT in white

blue10 · 08-20-2010, 05:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JeremyH

MtHead is right....the 65:1 cases have an extra gear....they wont transfer over...

Thanks guys, you gave me enough info to ask a semi-intelligent question to the FIL. I just talked to him and he said he started with full-width SuperBullys and converted them to XLD's, so whatever gearbox came on the original SuperBullys is what's on the rig now. Whatever they are, they are the same ratio, be it 65 or 68:1.

Not a complete answer, but enough that perhaps you eggheads who keep up with gear ratios and all that mumbo jumbo can illuminate someone like me who can't keep that kind of info straight in my head.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeepron

got any better pics of the front servo mounts?, oh and that chassis looks HOT in white

I'll see what I can do about some tighter shots of the servo mounts. It's a sweet set up that my Brother In Law (azvader) made when both he my Father In Law were building SuperBullys at the same time. The only trouble with the mounts, is that they don't allow for dual servo configuration. But if you're only running one on each axle, it's a sweet location.

JeremyH · 08-20-2010, 05:06 PM

Then they are probably the 38:1 gears. As I said earlier, I actually liked those gears, but I just couldnt stop breaking pins. That hasnt been an issue with the new gears since I've switched. I also have more motor and pinion options with the 65:1 gears....

Mic · 08-20-2010, 05:48 PM

Looks good so far. I see the DRZ has a permanent home on the lift. Good luck at Nats.

blue10 · 08-20-2010, 05:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mic

I see the DRZ has a permanent home on the lift.

Well I got the carb blown out and running fine, and found that the crack in the valve cover that I'd hoped I fixed with a little clever JB mold work, was spitting oil...a lot of oil. So it's waiting till I get a new valve cover.

I'm prolly gonna pull it down this weekend so I have more room to work on the crawlers before Nats, and the Ducati and the wife's bike are going to have to be up there in the next few weeks too.

RCROCIN' · 08-20-2010, 06:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JeremyH

Then they are probably the 38:1 gears. As I said earlier, I actually liked those gears, but I just couldnt stop breaking pins. That hasnt been an issue with the new gears since I've switched. I also have more motor and pinion options with the 65:1 gears....

X2 on the pins snapping. I snapped 3 in three outings. I switched the 65:1 gear cases and have not had an issue (knock on wood). RC4WD also makes one piece 38:1 HD gear replacements for stock bully gears.

http://www.rc4wdshop.com/go/product_...roducts_id=777

You will love the rig. I just upgraded my x locks to super sedona cut n shuts (moab xl sidewalls). I have them on the cheyenne wheel narrowed to 1.75" wide. It works good.

70duncan · 08-20-2010, 09:15 PM

Nice parts list and thanks for the story

This should be a very capable rig for sure.

blue10 · 08-20-2010, 10:12 PM

Thanks Duncan. It's already proven itself very capable before the Super Juice chassis the four or five times I've driven it. With less weight and more rigid chassis, I'm expecting an exciting Fall 2010 Season here with PARC.

BikeDad · 08-20-2010, 11:21 PM

Jim, the rig is looking good, and Mike does have a spare set of axles for the XLD. He may also have a set of 38.1 heavy duty gears unless I gave those to you. Keep up the good work.

Now for a little background on the super that I traded to you for an XR-10. I originally started with a set of Bully XLD's and all the electronics I would need. Since I knew I would need to add weight to the front I figured I'd lighten up the rear and maybe I wouldn't need so much weight up front. Anyway to make a long story short I used the light weight gearbox #Z-S0069 and the Knuckles from the Bully 2.2 light weight axle tube and knuckle assembly part #Z-S0070. These two items lightened the rear axle up significantly and did allow less weight up front. And the original 38 .1 gear ratio was retained in both axles.

I loved the servo mounts Mike built for it and even though it only allows use of one servo, I guess you could always mount a 7980 and pump 8 or 9 volts to it. That should pump the torque up to 700-800oz in or so. Jeremy said that 9 volts was Ok for the 7950 so it should be Ok for the 7980. Well I rambled on enough for now. I'll keep up with your thread just to keep you straight.

MTHead · 08-20-2010, 11:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blue10

It's a sweet set up that my Brother In Law (azvader) made when both he my Father In Law were building SuperBullys at the same time.

When the hell did I move to Arkansas ?

Ya, I seen a light weight 38:1 gear box tonight on James's rig, didn't know they made them in that ratio. I just opted straight for the 65:1 gearbox swap in the new Super... Oh my, did I just say that...

08-20-2010, 01:27 AM	#1
blue10 Quarry Creeper Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Phoenix Posts: 477	Evolution of A SuperBully SuperJuice Ok, I've not been much of a build-thread type. Not that I don't want to, I just always forgot to take pics while I was building. Back in '06, right about this time of year, I built my first super. The usual, clod axles, my own chassis and links, tiny little 333oz servo on each axle. The big "feature" was the badass 7 or 8 pounds of RC4WD 40 Series beadlock wheels. Remember, this was back when beadlocks were not so common; hence the badessedness. For more than three years I comped this truck, falling in and out of 2.2 comping, but always keeping this as my "primary" truck. The only real change I made to it was switching from those massively heavy wheels to some lighter Proline Cheyenes and the Moabs were replaced with Moab XL's and then later G8 XL's. Of course getting away from the silly Novak Super Rooster esc's became a priority as soon as drag brakes became interesting and I grabbed a pair of Mama Max'es with some real drag brake. For extra fun, I tossed the stick pack that used to strap onto the front upper links and got myself some LiPos. At the beginning of 2009, PARC started comping 1.9's and now I had three trucks, so I had to paint them all matching schemes and the old Clod Super got a new body. The Honda Odyssey body had to go anyway. At the end of the 2009 season, the work of comping three classes in one day, often judging most of the day, and then going home and entering all the scores into our club's score keeping software, was getting to be a drag. I had to retire one of the trucks to make my comp day a little more relaxed and fun. The old clod was starting to break more often and parts for the clod axles were getting harder to find. I was burning out on comping all three classes and for months was struggling with which truck to retire. Supers were way to cool and way too fun to drive and I usually finished pretty well. Mini's were way too cool and way too fun to drive and I usually finished pretty well. 2.2's were of course by now, the bread and butter of crawling, and even though all the young new hotshots were kicking my ass down to mid-pack finishes, I couldn't get rid of the 2.2. I was barely keeping the clod together, but the last straw came when the YTC guys started showing up in Phoenix with these crazy bicycle-wheeled, ultra light weight Supers that ran like 2.2's. Suddenly, the old clod that had stayed technologically current for more than three years, was not just tired, it was dang near obsolete. It had gotten to where if I was going to be the least bit competitive against these new-fangled buggies, I was going to have to completely rebuild the clod. Screw it. The rig, with its third set of broken gears in as many comps, went on the shelf at the beginning of the 2010 season and I enjoyed a season of comping only two trucks and relaxing and having a good time at the events. Ha! Who was I fooling, I wasn't going to stay away from Supers. During that leisurely season with no Super, my father-in-law built a Super. He loves to build and sometimes builds just for the sake of building. He liked the looks of Jeremy's SuperJuice, so be made something similar of his own. A bodiless chassis of his own design, SuperBully medium width axles, 3.2 wheels, custom made HB Rover tires, hard annodized high-clearance links, two huge Mamba Max Pro esc's, a Castle BEC Pro, and a pair of powerful 7950 running at 7 volts. The rig ran well. Throughout the season, he'd offered to let me comp it anytime I'd like, and I kept declining. Finally for the last comp of the season, I gave in and drove it. That was it. PARC's season was done for the summer and all that was planned was to spend the summer getting ready for Nationals. After driving the "new style" Super, I was re-hooked. I was planning on building a whole new rig from the ground up. Then my father-in-law mentioned that he had no plans to ever drive that Super again, so I asked him if he wanted to sell it. It was already 90% of everything I wanted to build. His reply, "I'll tell you what, I want one of those XR10's when they come out, you buy me one of those and we're even." Holy crap!! I'd enter him for Father-In-Law Of The Year if there was such a thing. So now with only two months till Nationals, I want to change a few things to get ready. This is where the build thread catches up to real time, August 2010. Step 1: I ordered a 4PK radio. The stick was just not getting it for me. I fought with that thing for four years. I was constantly making more mistakes with the twin sticks than I was getting benefit of infinite control of rear steer and rear motor. First outing with the Futaba was great. I was instantly driving better than I ever could with the DX6. I was able to match Mike (azvader) line for line where previously I'd be finding ways around. Step 2: The chassis. Of course, once again, I forgot to take picks until I was knee deep in the tear down. To backtrack, I just set the original chassis in the middle of the pile of disconnected links and wires and snapped a couple "before" pics. The tear down was complete, axles, motors and electronics got a lot of dust cleaned off them and I was ready to build. An hour later, I had this: So now that I'm completely up to date on four years worth of build threads for the Super, I plan to keep this up to date. I still have to squeeze all the electronics into the chassis, and then decide if I want to use the Maxximizer 3.2 wheels and make up some SuperSedona3.2's, or chop up the old Moab XL's and make 40 series Sedona40's on the old Cheyene wheels. Either way it's narrowing wheels. Any ideas from some of you who may have run both 3.2 and 40's in Rover/Sedona chops? I also have some goodies in the mail for this build. Stay tuned.

08-20-2010, 09:17 AM	#2
TheOther Pebble Pounder Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Germany / Stuttgart Posts: 119	Hi Jim, hahahaha i like the building story of your rigs. It was a very good deal with your father in law, tell him i send him also a second xr10 for a super Greetings - Sascha

08-20-2010, 02:16 PM	#4
JeremyH I wanna be Dave Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 16,952	Looking good! You are gonna like that chassis! Are those the 38:1 gearcases?

08-20-2010, 02:30 PM	#6
JeremyH I wanna be Dave Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 16,952	If they are the cast housings, then it is probably the 38:1 ratios. I think RC4WD only makes the 65:1s in the machined housings. I couldnt keep my gear pins in one piece with the 38:1 gears. The 65:1 gears use set screws to hold them together. I have had no breakage since switching to them.

08-20-2010, 03:13 PM	#7
blue10 Quarry Creeper Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Phoenix Posts: 477	Then I'll definitely have to ask the OG on this build, because it's cast front case on machined tubes, and fully machined in the rear. Is it possible he used all the same gearing in the two cases? Will it fit?

08-20-2010, 04:02 PM	#8
MTHead DOOH!!! Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: AZ Posts: 2,105	No, at least as far as I know. The gear cases are made different so the 38:1 gears can not be switched with the 65:1 within the same case. There is a noticeable difference in the cases, if they look the same then your good but I'm not sure if they made a machined case that ran the 38:1 gears..

08-20-2010, 04:12 PM	#9
JLF Quarry Creeper Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Pacific Northwest Posts: 295	Great story! Im going to have to search those 'bicycle wheeled' supers!

08-20-2010, 04:29 PM	#11
jeepron Pebble Pounder Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: waretown,nj Posts: 130	got any better pics of the front servo mounts?, oh and that chassis looks HOT in white

08-20-2010, 05:06 PM	#13
JeremyH I wanna be Dave Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 16,952	Then they are probably the 38:1 gears. As I said earlier, I actually liked those gears, but I just couldnt stop breaking pins. That hasnt been an issue with the new gears since I've switched. I also have more motor and pinion options with the 65:1 gears....

08-20-2010, 05:48 PM	#14
Mic Rock Crawler Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Arizona Posts: 578	Looks good so far. I see the DRZ has a permanent home on the lift. Good luck at Nats.

08-20-2010, 09:15 PM	#17
70duncan I wanna be Dave Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Stuck on a Rig in the middle of nowhere Utah. Posts: 2,024	Nice parts list and thanks for the story This should be a very capable rig for sure.

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08-20-2010, 10:12 PM	#18
blue10 Quarry Creeper Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Phoenix Posts: 477	Thanks Duncan. It's already proven itself very capable before the Super Juice chassis the four or five times I've driven it. With less weight and more rigid chassis, I'm expecting an exciting Fall 2010 Season here with PARC.

08-20-2010, 11:21 PM	#19
BikeDad Rock Stacker Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Mesa Posts: 89	Jim, the rig is looking good, and Mike does have a spare set of axles for the XLD. He may also have a set of 38.1 heavy duty gears unless I gave those to you. Keep up the good work. Now for a little background on the super that I traded to you for an XR-10. I originally started with a set of Bully XLD's and all the electronics I would need. Since I knew I would need to add weight to the front I figured I'd lighten up the rear and maybe I wouldn't need so much weight up front. Anyway to make a long story short I used the light weight gearbox #Z-S0069 and the Knuckles from the Bully 2.2 light weight axle tube and knuckle assembly part #Z-S0070. These two items lightened the rear axle up significantly and did allow less weight up front. And the original 38 .1 gear ratio was retained in both axles. I loved the servo mounts Mike built for it and even though it only allows use of one servo, I guess you could always mount a 7980 and pump 8 or 9 volts to it. That should pump the torque up to 700-800oz in or so. Jeremy said that 9 volts was Ok for the 7950 so it should be Ok for the 7980. Well I rambled on enough for now. I'll keep up with your thread just to keep you straight.

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Thread: Evolution of A SuperBully SuperJuice