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Thread: From WILD to Kinda Mild Super Build

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Old 04-21-2014, 08:27 AM   #1
Quarry Creeper
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Skamania County
Posts: 308
Default From WILD to Kinda Mild Super Build

I figured that I would start an official 'build' thread to keep you guys with me on the build. It's hard to believe that I am actually taking a crawler and making it SMALLER in order to fit regulations!! Yup, smaller...

Directly after building my 2.2 comp crawler, I was already chomping at the bit for another build, and the world of superclass struck me square in the face and I knew immediately I had to build one. I really dig the fact that there isn't even an instruction manual to throw away when I comes to the superclass world. 2.2's have a fair amount support, but are still dang challenging, and obviously superclass is even worse. So my ignorant, bullheadedness, said "Hey I can do that" So lets see how well I can achieve my goal.

I knew my best bet would be to but someone else's project that they gave up on or don't use anymore. When I dug up enough money I went shopping, I had a specific one I REALLY wanted but the guy never got back to me. There was another one on eBay that was a fairly good price with a rather good parts list. The seller mentioned in the ad that it was 'huge' but what does he know, he's only the guy that built it right? He doesn't know what 'huge' is. Pictures are always hard to tell without some type of comparison. Well once I received a 4 foot long, 30 pound box in the big brown truck I soon realized that this thing must in fact be 'huge', and obviously my ignorance of thinking the guy that built it didn't know what he was talking about was short damn lived.

Here's what I ended up with:

2 Super Bully Axles 38:1 gearing
Novak M2 Dig esc
2 Terra Claw 55T brushed motors
Hitec 7950 (front ?)
Hitec 7980 (rear ??)
RC4WD RokLox 8.5" tall tires
RC4WD 40 Series Cyclone Bead Locks
Futaba 4PL & RX
1 CC BEC (factory settings)
The dimensions were 34" L, 15" W, 12" T with over 5" ground clearance. So to sum it all up Yeah its friggin HUGE!!
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Old 04-21-2014, 08:35 AM   #2
Quarry Creeper
 
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Default Re: From WILD to Kinda Mild Super Build

I started searching the web to find a good 'used' chassis to build (down) this crawler. Erik at Dlux offered me a super chassis that is modeled from a truck. I couldn't buy it fast enough, I'm a country boy, and I've been building 1:1 rock crawlers all my life, so to find a chassis that looks like a truck is like striking gold!!

Erik actually sent me that chassis FASTER than the guy I bought the crawler from, so before I had the super I was already messing around with the chassis I bought from Dlux, it was the coolest chassis I've seen and I liked the size of it, perfect for a super class in my opinion. When the super did arrive, I soon found out that I had my work cut out for me as this chassis didn't seem that big anymore.

'Houston, we got a problem'
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Old 04-21-2014, 08:51 AM   #3
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Default Re: From WILD to Kinda Mild Super Build

My initial instincts were to gather up parts for the build and run the hell out of it until I get everything needed to tame it down.

First off, I immediately ditched the Novak system. I was going to try it just to see what it was like and to be able to give advice on it, but it was rather difficult to understand all the setup procedures and really didn't like how it worked. I yanked it out and went to work soldering up 1 FXR, 1 FXR Pro, and 2 CC BEC's, I put all the electronics together as pretty much a temporary unit that could easily be installed and removed. When I got the electronics put back in and started up the beast I learned very quickly that turning up both BEC's to 7.4V with directly powering the servos were going to spell disaster. So immediately I had to fix the steering, I didn't know why but the guy that built it put the smaller servo up front, and larger in the rear. Also both servos where mounted on 2 bolt going though a CF plate standing on 1/2" spacers. Not nearly strong enough, when ever you turned the tires you could see both servos wanted to twist right off the axles. I found a RC4WD 7980 mount and got the front servo mounted up as strong as I could, then bent up a steering link out of high strength 7075 aluminum. Then turned my attention to the rear servo, unfortunately I didn't have a servo mount for it so I ended up making my own out of a 1/4" piece of HDPE, I drilled 4 mounting holes in it to mount to the axle w/ four 3/16" spacers, then used a couple metal upright 90* servo mounts on the end of the plate, also treated it to the same type of steering link. Here is a before and after shot of the steering.

From there I grabbed up a hand full of batteries and took off. My joy didn't last long because stuff started going haywire really quickly. First off one of the motor pinions came off, then I soon realized the links that were on it, just couldn't support the weight of the vehicle (23 lbs), the link material was strong enough, but there link ends were just some cheepo plastic ends with 3 mm. studs, and they would strip out VERY easily. I did get some drive time, and honestly didn't know what to expect. This giant was clumsy, highly unpredictable, top heavy, under powered, zero drag brake, and really hard to maneuver. What a machine!! I loved it...

Once I got home however, I kept looking at it, and the Dlux's chassis, knowing damn good and well that I don't have everything I need, but with my lack of self discipline with this stuff, I tore it apart... So the story begines
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Old 04-21-2014, 09:27 AM   #4
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Default Re: From WILD to Kinda Mild Super Build

You could 'almost' consider this a ground up build. Although its been built and running. In all reality the chassis, links, and suspension will ALL be replaced. I really don't know how to do that, I've seen guys make a jig and build everything off of that. I didn't have any material to build a jig so I decided to just take the links and axles off one chassis, and slap them on the other and see what happens.

Yeah it didn't work so well. Looks cool though...
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Old 04-21-2014, 09:29 AM   #5
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Default Re: From WILD to Kinda Mild Super Build

Yeah it looks nifty but I know its not going to work. Or at least the front anyway. What would be my best bet here? Shorten the front links to that the shocks can reach to the axle?
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Old 04-21-2014, 10:55 AM   #6
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Default Re: From WILD to Kinda Mild Super Build

Messing with my rig (i don't/can't compete), everytime I change the wheels/tires, I need to setup the whole vehicle again around the tires.

Choose your wheels/tires and set your rig up around them. That being said - I think you should sell those wheels and maybe even the tires.

Those wheels gotta be 13-20 oz each. Narrowed plastic wheels will be about 3-6oz ea. Replacing the wheels will get you $$ and drop about 3.5lbs.

I run those same tires with foams cut and the compound is too stiff/tough to compete with. If you plan on competing you will get spanked by folks with super soft cut and shut tires.

If you are hell bent on keeping these wheels/tires...save your money and don't build/expect for competition. FYI After running 16-17.75 i run my wheelbase at ~17.3 with the rokloks.
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Old 04-21-2014, 11:06 AM   #7
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Default Re: From WILD to Kinda Mild Super Build

The tires and wheels are both coming off. I have a Summit that will soon be using them. I have a forum member here that I am buying HPI narrowed blast rims from that will be going on it. I just keep running into constant dead ends with getting some tires. I would love to have 7.5" - 8" tall tires. I have several 2.2 tires that I've run on my other comp crawler, Sedonas, Cut N Shut pin style, Rock Grabbers, etc. Hands down the best performing tire that I've ran seem to be my Pitbull Rock Beasts. So I would like to try to get a set of those made, or the Panther Plowboy (?) tires. I've read a lot of good things about those.
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Old 04-21-2014, 11:20 AM   #8
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Default Re: From WILD to Kinda Mild Super Build

I reckon CI would make you some 8" rockbeasts. I think he has made a set before. You could also buy some trenchers for mockup/testing/tuning. On narrowed wheels they will run right at 7" and you'll probably end up needing the sidewalls anyway.

With my rig, getting links/wheelbase dialed in is a PITA. I would recommend getting tire/wheel setup squared away before tackling links/susp/shock setup. Good Luck. I'll be watchin.
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Old 04-21-2014, 02:28 PM   #9
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Default Re: From WILD to Kinda Mild Super Build

I tried CI, and unfortunately it was a no go, and it was for reasons that I totally understand too. I think my best bet is to buy a bunch of tires and find someone here on rcc that will make them for me...
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Old 04-21-2014, 08:58 PM   #10
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Default Re: From WILD to Kinda Mild Super Build

I've got the set of 8in rock beasts that CI made.
There working really good. Couple of mods and they work even better.
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Old 04-22-2014, 10:30 AM   #11
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Default Re: From WILD to Kinda Mild Super Build

That chassis is designed to have much short front links than rear links. If you pm Dlux I am sure he can give you measurement for his lower links. Your uppers will be different but the lowers should be close enough. Supers work best with the wheelbase around 17.5" to 18".

23lbs!!!!! WOW, that is insane.
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Old 04-22-2014, 12:31 PM   #12
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Default Re: From WILD to Kinda Mild Super Build

Yeah she was a big girl for awhile. Definitely hard to drive as well. When ever it was pointed down a hill, it would just go that way. There was no drag brake whatsoever. With the 're-birth' i'm hoping to lose about 15 lbs, it's on a helluva diet now.

I am going to PM Erik, getting a starting point from him would be a great idea. I took all the links off the axles last night and mocked everything up on my bench. I can clearly see that the front links are going to be much shorter than the rear. Here is what I came up with for ride height, I think this is a good angle for the big bores to do their work.
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Old 04-23-2014, 08:28 AM   #13
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Default Re: From WILD to Kinda Mild Super Build

I've pretty much decided that I am going to take my time on this build and not rush through it. I did that on my 2.2 because I was so excited to just get it on the rocks, and I ended up having to take it apart more than once to fix something overlooked. Last night my only completion goal was to get the rear links cut, bent, and tapped. I had PM'd Erik about getting a starting point with the measurements but got to work on it before I heard back from him. I absolutely love the fact that I learned how to make my own links. Not only do I build them for great clearance and performance, but I can also try to mimic the lines of the crawler.

For now my link material is 3/16" 7075 aluminum, I tap the ends of the links with a 10-24 then do the same with the revo rod ends, 10-24 is basically 4mm. I really liked the looks of Tweak6's links on his build, so I mapped mine out to look somewhat like his. Like I said I took my time, and by the time I had just the rear lowers done, it was already only an hour before bedtime. So I just grabbed a bunch of leftover links and slapped it together to see what it looked like on the ground. Tonight I will do the rear uppers, then tackle the front.

The coolest thing happened though, as I had mentioned I PM'd Dlux about the initial link lengths. After I built my links and had already drawn out my designs and measurements, I check RCC and gotten a response from him. The suggested length of the links were exactly what I had cut mine too. Gave myself a pat on the back for that one.

Here's the pics!
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Old 04-25-2014, 08:34 AM   #14
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Default Re: From WILD to Kinda Mild Super Build

LINKS ARE DONE!! Finally, with regards to the bends and styling I am SUPER happy. I think they turned out awesome, and there is absolutely no interference anywhere. This thing twists up very nicely. Be in fact I might have to limit the shocks or something. Although I hand built all of these links, and they turned out amazing, I have to admit that I need to learn a lot more when it come to tuning these suspensions. Just the 'smallest' change can be a huge difference. I was talking with Hittman yesterday, when he looked at my setup he mentioned that it would be a good idea if I were to raise the links one hole in the chassis. I'm not one to question people with experience like him. So I just did it, and what a difference! Initially the suspension travel nicely, no hickups, great flex and buttery smooth. After I simply just moved the links up one hole then suddenly this think could stand on the side of its own tires both front and rear. F@cking marvelous!

Also, again another super huge THANK YOU to Hittman, he is setting me up with a full set of rims and tires for my little monster here. He has a set of 7 3/4" tall rovers with the HPI rims I was hoping to end up with. He said it would take a week or 2 to get here so I've got to stave my enthusiasm for a little while.

So far I'm happy, one thing I've got to get figured out now is the rear links. As I've said I am using 7075 aluminum which is an extremely strong aluminum, but the rear links are over 8" long and I have a feeling that its going to surpass the strength. The rear almost acts like a Mantis chassis with the torsional flex. Probably not a good thing.. So I'm a sponge fellas, have a look and let me know what you think.

Also, the big bores aren't fully rebounding. I guess the chassis is too heavy? What is a stronger spring I can look for?

Aaaaand, the pictures!
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Old 04-25-2014, 08:40 AM   #15
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Default Re: From WILD to Kinda Mild Super Build

Some more yummy goodness
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Old 04-25-2014, 08:46 AM   #16
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Default Re: From WILD to Kinda Mild Super Build

Oh man, here's a good one fella's. A before and after
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Old 04-26-2014, 02:49 AM   #17
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Default Re: From WILD to Kinda Mild Super Build

The shocks are over caming.
Basically the shock is compressing at the position and the flex is continuing past this point.

Try limiting the flex or move the shock back one hole.
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Old 04-26-2014, 07:59 PM   #18
Quarry Creeper
 
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Default Re: From WILD to Kinda Mild Super Build

Yeah I realized that, I've yet to do the cap mod, that should extend the shocks long enough to stop that hopefully. Mainly I am trying to find out what you guys use for stronger springs?? I have 4" Big Bores and need much stronger springs. I'll lift the crawler to fully extension then let it go and it will settle almost a 1/2" on all 4 corners.
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Old 04-26-2014, 08:05 PM   #19
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Default Re: From WILD to Kinda Mild Super Build

Okay so with the ideas everyone has shared with regarding the wheel weights, I decided to pull the trigger on making my own set. It really wasn't that bad, just shaping the plastic was time consuming. I used a dremel with a carbide bit clamped in my vise, drilled and tapped the top, presto "Wheel Weights"
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Old 04-26-2014, 09:49 PM   #20
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Default Re: From WILD to Kinda Mild Super Build

If your looking to cut weight and a lot of it get a different set of wheels, I had them same wheels and they are like a pound each. I got a set if G10 beadlocks from Dlux. They are a little over 3 ounces each. That's 4 wheels for less than the weight of one of the ones you have now. The weight loss would be even more if you didn't get beadlocks
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