Raptors - run them or not?

[Big Mike]

So I got these Raptor axles along with a Hustler chassis in a package ebay deal.

They are nice to look at, but there seems to be a common consensus that they are failure-prone. Would anyone care to elaborate? The axles and gears are all metal and seem to be of decent quality, and the housings are CNC'ed aluminum. Is this really a case of "failure prone to drivers who have no sense of throttle control when they are stuck?"

The steering kit is just silly, though. Who's idea was it to mount the servo plate by using two HUGE blocks of aluminum bolted around the axle tubes? The blocks only hang down off the bottom of the tubes a 1/2" or so, waiting to hang up on anything they can reach. Did'nt the designer realize these axles just might have to slide over a rock or two? If I use these axles the servo mounts will have to be re-worked from scratch. It looks like I'll need to make lower link mounts as well, so perhaps two birds can be slain with one stone there.

Anyone else running these axles? I've seen a few threads where folks have typed something generally along the lines of "Raptors suck", but I can't find any pics or build threads (yet) where someone is actually doing something with a pair of Raptors other than bad-mouthing them...

[Speedyboy]

Well I would post my opinion but, you probably already read about it in my "Switching to the real thing" thread

[Culetto]

I have a set right now thats not being used. I ended up getting a set of HR's as a gift. The raptors are damn near indestructable. The stub axles will bend if you are really really really hard on it (like 10ft off a cliff hard on it) but other than that i had no issues with them. I ground out the slot so i could run a 6t pinion on mine but its really not neccesary. I had planned on going back up to 8t just for some more wheelspeed.

For a servo mount i did .....


Just a simple piece of angle alum bolted to the top link mount. Was really sturdy and not in the way of anything even though in the pics it looks close to the upper link mount.

[JPB-rides]

I have had zero luck with these axles. They are geared really high and the set pins at the at the end of the axles break within a couple of runs. The guys at RC4WD are cool and have sent me 2 replacement axles but after a 2 hour rebuild a new pin broke on its 1st test run in my living room.

The machine work looks great and the actual axle is super beefy but the gearing and end pins are both clearly a defect. These axles are the most frustrating/disappointing items that I have purchased in my entire RC experience. They look good and seem to be strong but are really just useless for a crawler build and I feel it was a complete waste of my money. I am just going to get Clod axles and beef those up for my super build.

If anybody wants a pair of Raptor2 axles for cheap let me know I was even dumb enough to get the cool stainless steel skid plates for both axles. They would make a nice looking paper weight.:-P

[Big Mike]

Originally Posted by Speedyboy

Well I would post my opinion but, you probably already read about it in my "Switching to the real thing" thread

I did.

It makes me a bit more confident to hear that you've been out pulling wheelies on concrete with 7T cobalts.

No axle can be expected to put up with that for too long...

[Big Mike]

Originally Posted by JPB-rides

I have had zero luck with these axles. They are geared really high and the set pins at the at the end of the axles break within a couple of runs. The guys at RC4WD are cool and have sent me 2 replacement axles but after a 2 hour rebuild a new pin broke on its 1st test run in my living room.

Ok - Explains why guys are modifying the case to run a 6t pinion.

Can't the axle pins be driven out and replaced? Or does a broken pin kill an axle for good?

Well, at least I did'nt pay full pop for them. The package I got them in makes them roughly a 2-for-one deal price-wise. They look brand new, not a scratch on them.

I'm going to give them a shot (hell, they're already here) vs. starting from scratch trying to get real Clod axles together. I'm going to use lathe motors I already have at first (55's or 65's) and my driving style is more on the conservative side, so we'll see how bad they really are.

Yes, Culetto that is what I had in mind. I think I could pull off a mount like that that lays the servo on it's side. Anything's got to be better than those big block mounts...

[Racer4Life]

Originally Posted by Big Mike

Ok - Explains why guys are modifying the case to run a 6t pinion.

Can't the axle pins be driven out and replaced? Or does a broken pin kill an axle for good?

Well, at least I did'nt pay full pop for them. The package I got them in makes them roughly a 2-for-one deal price-wise. They look brand new, not a scratch on them.

I'm going to give them a shot (hell, they're already here) vs. starting from scratch trying to get real Clod axles together. I'm going to use lathe motors I already have at first (55's or 65's) and my driving style is more on the conservative side, so we'll see how bad they really are.

Yes, Culetto that is what I had in mind. I think I could pull off a mount like that that lays the servo on it's side. Anything's got to be better than those big block mounts...

Big Mike...post some pics of your Super rig!!

[JPB-rides]

Originally Posted by Big Mike

Ok - Explains why guys are modifying the case to run a 6t pinion.

Can't the axle pins be driven out and replaced? Or does a broken pin kill an axle for good?

Well, at least I did'nt pay full pop for them. The package I got them in makes them roughly a 2-for-one deal price-wise. They look brand new, not a scratch on them.

I'm going to give them a shot (hell, they're already here) vs. starting from scratch trying to get real Clod axles together. I'm going to use lathe motors I already have at first (55's or 65's) and my driving style is more on the conservative side, so we'll see how bad they really are.

Yes, Culetto that is what I had in mind. I think I could pull off a mount like that that lays the servo on it's side. Anything's got to be better than those big block mounts...

I have drilled out the ends where the set pins go and JB welded new metal pins I fabbed out of a nail. It lasted longer than the stock pin but I need to find a stronger gauge metal than the nails I used. Still trying to make them work.

[Big Mike]

I have drilled out the ends where the set pins go and JB welded new metal pins I fabbed out of a nail.

Ok - that is good news. What we need to do beyond that is source the right material to replace the pins with. A steel rod out of 01, 5150, some kind of good tool steel that can be heat-treated.

(or maybe that's the problem in itself? Maybe their pins are heat-treated and left un-tempered, which would make them very brittle and prone to snapping. A nail, on the other hand, will be soft and will bend before it snaps)

Racer4life - I will post up some pics soon. The laptop that my Blackberry desktop was on has died on me, I have'nt had time to load it into my desktop. Or I have to borrow my brothers cam.

So far all I have is: the Hustler chassis with it's stock links and Raptor axles. It's assembled to that point, and the shocks are mounted (Sportwerks Mayhem rear shocks with Losi Mini-T springs inside, mounted upside-down) that's about it for now. It's a "roller" just with no wheels yet.

(wheels/tires, that could grow into a thread of it's own - I'm leaving that part alone for now)

I'm still debating on running one ESC with the motors wired in series (I've never had a Clod, thus I've never experienced "clod-stall" - and there seems to be two differing opinions on just how much of a "problem" it really is) or 2 ESC's with seperate control on a stick radio (Futaba 7CAP ground) I'm still in the "development" stage of this part of the project. Servos will be battle-proven Hi-Tec 7955TG coreless units. For now I have 2 Integy 65t lathe motors but may go with something more high quality if the budget allows. I'm also thinking it's high time to go LiPo with this rig, to save some space.

I'm also trying to build this rig w/o using any parts/electronics off of my 2.2 TLT-based rig, which is making it a longer process...

[Culetto]

I do know alot of people have doubts about these but i cant agree. Part of the pin issue is if you have the raptor 1's or 2's. The originals came with a pressed in pin, the revisions came with a threaded pin that screwed into the hole in the end of the axle. I havent broken either one but i did have one on an original axle that was quite worn down.

If you want to make your own pins cut off the back end of the correct size drill bit. Super strong! Then weld,braze,glue,spit or whatever you like to keep them tight.

[JPB-rides]

Originally Posted by Culetto

I do know alot of people have doubts about these but i cant agree. Part of the pin issue is if you have the raptor 1's or 2's. The originals came with a pressed in pin, the revisions came with a threaded pin that screwed into the hole in the end of the axle. I havent broken either one but i did have one on an original axle that was quite worn down.

If you want to make your own pins cut off the back end of the correct size drill bit. Super strong! Then weld,braze,glue,spit or whatever you like to keep them tight.

Its hard to believe that you have not broken a pin yet. My first axles were Raptor 1 with the pressed in pin "junk" the pin wore down to a nub within 3 runs. RC4WD was cool and sent me Raptor2 with the screw in pin which seemed better. I installed the new rear axle went to drive it and the pressed on gear on the front axle started to spin freely on the axle shaft .

The guys at RC4WD were cool again and sent me another Raptor 2 axle for the front "another 2 hour rebuild". I installed it and one of the "new" pins broke on the first test run in my livingroom. My only conclusion is that they are cheap parts made in China or wherever and that the actual axle and axle housing are great but the gear pin combination is complete junk.

Once my nail/pin breaks maybe I will try the drill bit trick. Does anybody know if the axle tubes and knuckles will work with a Clod gearbox and axles? Maybe with different size bearings?

[Speedyboy]

Just so we're clear when I say wheelies I mean the front pops off the ground an inch for about half a sec

[Big Mike]

Originally Posted by Speedyboy

Just so we're clear when I say wheelies I mean the front pops off the ground an inch for about half a sec

That's cool - I'm not trying to dis you or accuse you of anything. Your driving style is your own.

It's just reassuring to hear that you're doing things that are probably out of the realm of "normal crawling" that's all.

One thing you are absolutely right about - the steering radius on these axles is really disappointing. Some CVD's would help, but I have no idea if anyone makes them, or if Thundertech Clod CVD's would fit.

Proper spacing of the bearings would help too, so the axle pin doesn't go too deep into the drive cup and bind up while turning. And there's also the possibility of grinding the drive cups like I've done on TLT/Blackfoot stubs to increase the steering angle.

IMO though... you shouldn't have to do too much modification to a "custom" axle to make it work. These almost seem like a very pretty step backwards from a modified Clod axle...

[Speedyboy]

Oh yeah, as long as your running maybe 55t and low voltage like no more than 6C Ni-MH your probably going to be fine.
Oh watch your wheelspeed too. Thats what got me the most (even before the 7T cobalts)

[akguanja]

im running raptor 2's on my 2.2 but they have been profesionally narrowd/clocked/modded for 6t pinions/modified where the dogbone pins are so they wont break anymore. heres a pic of them on my 2.2

so far i think they are a decent axle the 6tpinion makes wheelspeed managable im runniong 2 55t's on them with a 11.1v lipo



ill try and take some closeup pics of the axles/mods/pins after work for you guys.


- tre

[frdtrkguy]

Originally Posted by akguanja

im running raptor 2's on my 2.2 but they have been profesionally narrowd/clocked/modded for 6t pinions/modified where the dogbone pins are so they wont break anymore. heres a pic of them on my 2.2

so far i think they are a decent axle the 6tpinion makes wheelspeed managable im runniong 2 55t's on them with a 11.1v lipo

ill try and take some closeup pics of the axles/mods/pins after work for you guys.


- tre

Just dont elaborate on the chassis. Its been a well kept secret Hows that truck working for you?

[Big Mike]

Originally Posted by akguanja

im running raptor 2's on my 2.2 but they have been profesionally narrowd/clocked/modded for 6t pinions/modified where the dogbone pins are so they wont break anymore.

so far i think they are a decent axle the 6tpinion makes wheelspeed managable im runniong 2 55t's on them with a 11.1v lipo


ill try and take some closeup pics of the axles/mods/pins after work for you guys.


- tre

Narrowed as in cut down and welded together again? That's what the darker grey bands are on the tubes?

(nice looking rig BTW - I like the AK/RC sticker)

I'm really interested in your pin modification, if you could post up a shot or two I'd appreciate it.

You're running exactly what I planned to run - 55's on 11.1 volts - these are geared that high, huh? I'm going to have to hunt up a pair of 6t pinions or re-think my motor selection...

[frdtrkguy]

Originally Posted by Big Mike

Narrowed as in cut down and welded together again? That's what the darker grey bands are on the tubes?

(nice looking rig BTW - I like the AK/RC sticker)

I'm really interested in your pin modification, if you could post up a shot or two I'd appreciate it...

The pin mod involves using a full width inner axle with the narrowed tubes. So it wont work on a full width Raptor. Uses the XVD drive cup/stub with cross pin and a "C" notched and clearanced axle shaft. This is possible because the Raptor 2 inner axles are so large in diameter. Works killer for a 2.2

[Big Mike]

So - the pin is in the stub axle and the axle itself is notched to accept the pin?

[frdtrkguy]

Originally Posted by Big Mike

So - the pin is in the stub axle and the axle itself is notched to accept the pin?

Exactly. Its pretty much bullet proof. The only thing that could break would be the hardened steel pin that is supported on both sides by the cup.