RCCrawler Forums

oxyjansen · 02-26-2009, 09:50 PM

OK, I've seen some tidbits on keeping and removing the cantilever shock system on the CR-01. I've done some searching for answers to my questions and came up pretty empty, so here it goes:

What is the real difference in articulation, handling, etc without the cantilever system??? I'm building from scratch without a kit, so less parts means less $$ spent, and simple is better in my opinion, but is a cantilever-ectomy the way to go?

Do longer/shorter shocks make a difference?
Does shock placement make a difference?

Pics would be most helpful.

I'm building 1 crawler, and 1 scaler.

tom tom · 02-26-2009, 10:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oxyjansen

OK, I've seen some tidbits on keeping and removing the cantilever shock system on the CR-01. I've done some searching for answers to my questions and came up pretty empty, so here it goes:

What is the real difference in articulation, handling, etc without the cantilever system??? I'm building from scratch without a kit, so less parts means less $$ spent, and simple is better in my opinion, but is a cantilever-ectomy the way to go?

Do longer/shorter shocks make a difference?
Does shock placement make a difference?

Pics would be most helpful.

I'm building 1 crawler, and 1 scaler.

One way you can get around both the cantiliver idea and the reduced shock travel of conventional shocks is pretty simple in my mind. take a decent plate of hobby aluminum, mark and drill some holes, and bend it into a 90* angle, you can mount decent length, and realistic looking shocks on the frame. I am going to draw up what I am talking about. I just got my wisdom teeth out so I am searching for things to do so I dont die from boredem.

tom tom · 02-26-2009, 10:38 PM

That sadly took less time then I was hoping....

Here is a simple illustration. This can be made with a bansaw, hand drill, a couple nuts and bolts, and a vice or a clamp and a hammer type tool to make a bend in it. I would use some hobby aluminum plate, similar to this:
http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?&I=LXS026&P=7

Now this is severe overkill. You would twist and snap the C-chassis before you bent this. You could make all four shock mounts with one sheet. You can design it to be as tall or short as you want, which makes your shock choice unlimited. Did this help? I think it might be the cheapest solution you will hear.

oxyjansen · 02-27-2009, 06:16 AM

Basically what your getting as is something similar to the Junfac shock mounts here:

http://www.junfac.com/shop/index.php...roducts_id=244

But, instead of the aluminum standoffs your fabbing a bent brace. I suppose in reality tha 2 ideas are very similar other than the fact that yours is 1 piece and stringer correct?

I would probably fab these out of stainless, as I have a shed full of it!

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the basic concept is 1) to use longer shocks for more articulation, and 2) to get the shocks away from the frame so they don't bind on the frame thusly inhibiting articulation correct?

Maybe some Axial size shocks would be in order here? I believe they are about 20-24mm longer than CR-01 shocks.

Any advice on shock angles??? Not sure if it will make a difference till I get one of my rigs mocked up. Just haven't had the time yet.

860Crawler · 02-27-2009, 08:04 AM

When going with a standard coilover vertical shock setup, most people are trying to make a more scale looking chassis. That said, scale rigs are going to have more realistic travel in the suspension (comparably less movement). You could mount longer coilover shocks at an angle, like this / - \ when looking from the side of the rig to get a lot more suspension travel. You'd be taking away from a "true" scale look though. The use of shock mount points that extend higher than the frame rails, like you have shown, can give you back suspension travel as well.

The stock cantilever set up doesn't look very scale. The advantage is really good articulation and the use of stabilizer bars works pretty well. Tamiya has done a pretty good job of offering various spring rates/heights, bar, hop up shocks. So their kit can be tweaked to works quite well. The disadvantage is the loose undamped movement the springs and cantilever arms. There are some threads on here where people have found various ways to get rid of that excess movement and retain the stock set up.

Why did Tamiya choose to go cantilever? I don't know, but I do know they love to use them. Their suspensions are like Rube Goldberg devices of RC, super complicated design to do a simple process. They usually do what they do pretty well though. They've used it on a few other vehicles in the past.

In the end, only the end user can determine what they like the best for them.

quickster47 · 02-27-2009, 09:31 AM

Take a look at thiss build for some good ideas on mounting shocks.

Simensays FJ40

Carl

oxyjansen · 02-27-2009, 10:12 AM

Great info on both your parts, thank you.

Now that we're getting into this, and wanting to build 1 sclaer, and 1 crawler I'm seriously starting to consider using 124mm axial size shocks! I'm sure I can fab up some nice mounts, get rid of the canty system, and keep my articulation all at the same time. Now all I need is time! LOL I'd better get it done before all my snakes start breeding, babies start hatching, and my time is no longer my own till next winter!

I'll post some project pics as this saga goes on. Not completely sure on all the particulars yet, btu I am very close.

dR. hOOK · 02-27-2009, 04:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oxyjansen

Great info on both your parts, thank you.

Now that we're getting into this, and wanting to build 1 sclaer, and 1 crawler I'm seriously starting to consider using 124mm axial size shocks! I'm sure I can fab up some nice mounts, get rid of the canty system, and keep my articulation all at the same time. Now all I need is time! LOL I'd better get it done before all my snakes start breeding, babies start hatching, and my time is no longer my own till next winter!

I'll post some project pics as this saga goes on. Not completely sure on all the particulars yet, btu I am very close.

Well I did the same set up as simensays CR01 but used the losi 4" crawler shocks on mine & they work great! I used the Axial shocks before but found them to be too long! I would suggest to use the losi shocks as they are much shorter & when set up right it will give you the same travel as the stock set up. But make sure to put stiffer springs & thicker oil in the rear shocks to reduce torque twist & also you don't want to have too much articulation! I will post pics of my set up sometime to show you what I have done & give you an idea.

EeePee · 02-27-2009, 05:01 PM

The only problem with the cantilevers is the slop that develops between the two pieces that make up the arm. Once it gets sloppy, the chassis is free to move a little and it looks goofy. Otherwise, they're fine. And they're probably a mechanical advantage as they could be a rising rate set up. Not sure, could look, too lazy.

oxyjansen · 02-28-2009, 12:14 AM

So, even with extended shock mounts the 124mm are a bit much huh? well, I guess 104mm it is. I was thinking is might give the axle some more movement, but I guess it can make things a bit weird too. This is all going to make alot more sence when I get the time tp put the chassis together and play with things a bit. I've been looking closely at all the pics here, and it looks like there's alot of trial and error, personal preference, adn tweeking to get things right! I guess that's what keeps it all pretty interesting.

Any of you try the Hot Racing suspension links??? I can get their stuff localy, and it looks nicely made online, but I'm wondering if its worth it? I'm not hearing great things about Integy.

dR. hOOK · 02-28-2009, 04:10 PM

Yeah, when you get it together just tweak around with it & try different shock mounting positions. It took me 3 months to finally get the setup that worked & was satisfied with.

Also, tweak around with your links & make sure your rear pinion is aligned with the angle of the driveshaft so it will clear from rocks.

oxyjansen · 03-01-2009, 12:51 AM

It just occured to me that the Tmaxx shocks are about the same length as the CR-01. As we all know there's a plethora of stuff available for the Maxx trucks, so I'm assuming something like the Traxxas aluminum big bored might also be an option if I can get a really good deal?

Also, can you send me some pics of your suspension set up? oxyjansen@gmail.com

dR. hOOK · 03-01-2009, 11:27 AM

I never thought about tmaxx shocks! But yeah that would be a good option too but I think the big bores would be a little too big. Just stick with the regular tmaxx shocks & you'll be fine & also sure I will send you those pics! :-)

oxyjansen · 03-01-2009, 11:36 AM

I found some really nice aluminum Tmaxx shocks on Ebay $40 for a set of 8 with springs! I was also looking at the Rustler/Stampede big bore shocs as well, but more expensive, and no springs.

Would it be safe to assume that the Maxx springs would use the same 3mm bolts?

Do you think the Maxx big bores are just too wide and bulky, and could possibly create a rubbing issue without some creative placement? I assume the could also dampen a bit too much as well?

I wish I had a reposotory of rc parts around, so i could answer my own questions! LOL I'll be takinga trip to 3 hobby shops close by, and that should,help me get a hold on some of this stuff as far as sizing is concerned.

860Crawler · 03-01-2009, 12:39 PM

You probably have to space the big bore shocks out so they clear the chassis or any other parts

oxyjansen · 03-01-2009, 01:20 PM

How much wider are they from typical cr-01 shocks? I'll look at some pics again to get more perspective.

dR. hOOK · 03-01-2009, 05:35 PM

Here's my setup with the losi 4" shocks as I also ditched the spring/cantilever setup.

http://i461.photobucket.com/albums/q...s/IMG_0127.jpg
http://i461.photobucket.com/albums/q...s/IMG_0125.jpg
http://i461.photobucket.com/albums/q...s/IMG_0124.jpg
http://i461.photobucket.com/albums/q...s/IMG_0126.jpg

crunky · 03-02-2009, 12:19 AM

i went through this myself, and am glad i got rid of my played out sloppy cantilever.
i was too lazy to try and tighten things up, so i came up with this.

heres where i started asking about it.
CR-01 droop ?

and what i ended up with.
lil burb

i since have really gone back and shaved all the useless perches and such off now. i like how it handles now, i dont drive it much cause i love my bronco.

Bok · 03-02-2009, 05:41 AM

You can get rid of the slop in the cantilevers by using zip ties

Cantilever tweaks

oxyjansen · 03-02-2009, 01:11 PM

I've done a bit more research, and have found some good deals on shocks. The Traxxas Big bores, as we've discussed briefly are 3/16" wider (3/4" total width) than the stock 9/16" CR-01 shock. After looking at the pics it would appear this could be compensated for, yes?? I'm going to try extended wheel adaptors, which would give plenty of spacing for moving big bore shocks out a bit to avoid any rubbing.'

The reason I'm looking at this shock is due to it being rebuildable, as parts are easily accessed. I'm also looking at some shocks that are supposed to be GPM. same price, and I'm assuming possibly rebuildable? I've not heard back from the seller yet, but the prices are similar, and their all big bores for the Tmaxx. I don't have to go this route, but 8 shocks for $40 is a damn good deal. Some come with all the hardware, and extra shock oil too!

Comments, suggestions, disagreements all welcome!

I just got 208oz all metal gear servos for about $10 each!

02-26-2009, 09:50 PM	#1
oxyjansen Pebble Pounder Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: US Posts: 125	To Cantilever, or not to Cantilever, that is the question! OK, I've seen some tidbits on keeping and removing the cantilever shock system on the CR-01. I've done some searching for answers to my questions and came up pretty empty, so here it goes: What is the real difference in articulation, handling, etc without the cantilever system??? I'm building from scratch without a kit, so less parts means less $$ spent, and simple is better in my opinion, but is a cantilever-ectomy the way to go? Do longer/shorter shocks make a difference? Does shock placement make a difference? Pics would be most helpful. I'm building 1 crawler, and 1 scaler.

02-26-2009, 10:38 PM	#3
tom tom Pebble Pounder Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Planet Earth Posts: 173	That sadly took less time then I was hoping.... Here is a simple illustration. This can be made with a bansaw, hand drill, a couple nuts and bolts, and a vice or a clamp and a hammer type tool to make a bend in it. I would use some hobby aluminum plate, similar to this: http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?&I=LXS026&P=7 Now this is severe overkill. You would twist and snap the C-chassis before you bent this. You could make all four shock mounts with one sheet. You can design it to be as tall or short as you want, which makes your shock choice unlimited. Did this help? I think it might be the cheapest solution you will hear.

02-27-2009, 06:16 AM	#4
oxyjansen Pebble Pounder Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: US Posts: 125	Basically what your getting as is something similar to the Junfac shock mounts here: http://www.junfac.com/shop/index.php...roducts_id=244 But, instead of the aluminum standoffs your fabbing a bent brace. I suppose in reality tha 2 ideas are very similar other than the fact that yours is 1 piece and stringer correct? I would probably fab these out of stainless, as I have a shed full of it! Correct me if I'm wrong, but the basic concept is 1) to use longer shocks for more articulation, and 2) to get the shocks away from the frame so they don't bind on the frame thusly inhibiting articulation correct? Maybe some Axial size shocks would be in order here? I believe they are about 20-24mm longer than CR-01 shocks. Any advice on shock angles??? Not sure if it will make a difference till I get one of my rigs mocked up. Just haven't had the time yet.

02-27-2009, 08:04 AM	#5
860Crawler RCC Addict Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Philadelphia, PA Posts: 1,048	When going with a standard coilover vertical shock setup, most people are trying to make a more scale looking chassis. That said, scale rigs are going to have more realistic travel in the suspension (comparably less movement). You could mount longer coilover shocks at an angle, like this / - \ when looking from the side of the rig to get a lot more suspension travel. You'd be taking away from a "true" scale look though. The use of shock mount points that extend higher than the frame rails, like you have shown, can give you back suspension travel as well. The stock cantilever set up doesn't look very scale. The advantage is really good articulation and the use of stabilizer bars works pretty well. Tamiya has done a pretty good job of offering various spring rates/heights, bar, hop up shocks. So their kit can be tweaked to works quite well. The disadvantage is the loose undamped movement the springs and cantilever arms. There are some threads on here where people have found various ways to get rid of that excess movement and retain the stock set up. Why did Tamiya choose to go cantilever? I don't know, but I do know they love to use them. Their suspensions are like Rube Goldberg devices of RC, super complicated design to do a simple process. They usually do what they do pretty well though. They've used it on a few other vehicles in the past. In the end, only the end user can determine what they like the best for them.

02-27-2009, 09:31 AM	#6
quickster47 Quarry Creeper Join Date: May 2005 Location: Crossville,TN Posts: 363	Take a look at thiss build for some good ideas on mounting shocks. Simensays FJ40 Carl

02-27-2009, 10:12 AM	#7
oxyjansen Pebble Pounder Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: US Posts: 125	Great info on both your parts, thank you. Now that we're getting into this, and wanting to build 1 sclaer, and 1 crawler I'm seriously starting to consider using 124mm axial size shocks! I'm sure I can fab up some nice mounts, get rid of the canty system, and keep my articulation all at the same time. Now all I need is time! LOL I'd better get it done before all my snakes start breeding, babies start hatching, and my time is no longer my own till next winter! I'll post some project pics as this saga goes on. Not completely sure on all the particulars yet, btu I am very close.

02-27-2009, 05:01 PM	#9
EeePee MODERATOR™ Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Ohio Posts: 18,928	The only problem with the cantilevers is the slop that develops between the two pieces that make up the arm. Once it gets sloppy, the chassis is free to move a little and it looks goofy. Otherwise, they're fine. And they're probably a mechanical advantage as they could be a rising rate set up. Not sure, could look, too lazy.

02-28-2009, 12:14 AM	#10
oxyjansen Pebble Pounder Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: US Posts: 125	So, even with extended shock mounts the 124mm are a bit much huh? well, I guess 104mm it is. I was thinking is might give the axle some more movement, but I guess it can make things a bit weird too. This is all going to make alot more sence when I get the time tp put the chassis together and play with things a bit. I've been looking closely at all the pics here, and it looks like there's alot of trial and error, personal preference, adn tweeking to get things right! I guess that's what keeps it all pretty interesting. Any of you try the Hot Racing suspension links??? I can get their stuff localy, and it looks nicely made online, but I'm wondering if its worth it? I'm not hearing great things about Integy.

02-28-2009, 04:10 PM	#11
dR. hOOK Rock Stacker Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Winnipeg, Mb Posts: 84	Yeah, when you get it together just tweak around with it & try different shock mounting positions. It took me 3 months to finally get the setup that worked & was satisfied with. Also, tweak around with your links & make sure your rear pinion is aligned with the angle of the driveshaft so it will clear from rocks.

03-01-2009, 12:51 AM	#12
oxyjansen Pebble Pounder Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: US Posts: 125	It just occured to me that the Tmaxx shocks are about the same length as the CR-01. As we all know there's a plethora of stuff available for the Maxx trucks, so I'm assuming something like the Traxxas aluminum big bored might also be an option if I can get a really good deal? Also, can you send me some pics of your suspension set up? oxyjansen@gmail.com

03-01-2009, 11:27 AM	#13
dR. hOOK Rock Stacker Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Winnipeg, Mb Posts: 84	I never thought about tmaxx shocks! But yeah that would be a good option too but I think the big bores would be a little too big. Just stick with the regular tmaxx shocks & you'll be fine & also sure I will send you those pics! :-)

Sponsored Links

03-01-2009, 11:36 AM	#14
oxyjansen Pebble Pounder Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: US Posts: 125	I found some really nice aluminum Tmaxx shocks on Ebay $40 for a set of 8 with springs! I was also looking at the Rustler/Stampede big bore shocs as well, but more expensive, and no springs. Would it be safe to assume that the Maxx springs would use the same 3mm bolts? Do you think the Maxx big bores are just too wide and bulky, and could possibly create a rubbing issue without some creative placement? I assume the could also dampen a bit too much as well? I wish I had a reposotory of rc parts around, so i could answer my own questions! LOL I'll be takinga trip to 3 hobby shops close by, and that should,help me get a hold on some of this stuff as far as sizing is concerned.

03-01-2009, 12:39 PM	#15
860Crawler RCC Addict Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Philadelphia, PA Posts: 1,048	You probably have to space the big bore shocks out so they clear the chassis or any other parts

03-01-2009, 01:20 PM	#16
oxyjansen Pebble Pounder Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: US Posts: 125	How much wider are they from typical cr-01 shocks? I'll look at some pics again to get more perspective.

03-01-2009, 05:35 PM	#17
dR. hOOK Rock Stacker Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Winnipeg, Mb Posts: 84	Here's my setup with the losi 4" shocks as I also ditched the spring/cantilever setup. http://i461.photobucket.com/albums/q...s/IMG_0127.jpg http://i461.photobucket.com/albums/q...s/IMG_0125.jpg http://i461.photobucket.com/albums/q...s/IMG_0124.jpg http://i461.photobucket.com/albums/q...s/IMG_0126.jpg

03-02-2009, 12:19 AM	#18
crunky I wanna be Dave Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: cape crud... will you be my friend Posts: 2,102	i went through this myself, and am glad i got rid of my played out sloppy cantilever. i was too lazy to try and tighten things up, so i came up with this. heres where i started asking about it. CR-01 droop ? and what i ended up with. lil burb i since have really gone back and shaved all the useless perches and such off now. i like how it handles now, i dont drive it much cause i love my bronco.

03-02-2009, 05:41 AM	#19
Bok Rock Stacker Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Philippines Posts: 55	You can get rid of the slop in the cantilevers by using zip ties Cantilever tweaks

03-02-2009, 01:11 PM	#20
oxyjansen Pebble Pounder Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: US Posts: 125	I've done a bit more research, and have found some good deals on shocks. The Traxxas Big bores, as we've discussed briefly are 3/16" wider (3/4" total width) than the stock 9/16" CR-01 shock. After looking at the pics it would appear this could be compensated for, yes?? I'm going to try extended wheel adaptors, which would give plenty of spacing for moving big bore shocks out a bit to avoid any rubbing.' The reason I'm looking at this shock is due to it being rebuildable, as parts are easily accessed. I'm also looking at some shocks that are supposed to be GPM. same price, and I'm assuming possibly rebuildable? I've not heard back from the seller yet, but the prices are similar, and their all big bores for the Tmaxx. I don't have to go this route, but 8 shocks for $40 is a damn good deal. Some come with all the hardware, and extra shock oil too! Comments, suggestions, disagreements all welcome! I just got 208oz all metal gear servos for about $10 each!

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Thread: To Cantilever, or not to Cantilever, that is the question!