pros & cons for using Losi axles for MOA project?

[concretejungle]

just daydreaming a little but started venturing over to the MOA sections of the boards. Have to admit, the bergs are pretty darn sick!

Which, .... got me thinking.... after seeing Delux tear a berg apart to lose weight and ended up making almost everything including axle tubes out of delrin... what would be the advantages and disadvantages to taking Losi CC axles and making a MOA rig with them versus the heavy berg or bully axles or the xr10 axles?

Seems right off that the losi gear would be lighter than either the bully or the berg axles... so plus one for losi. I'm "guessing" that the xr10 axles will require some type of drag brake.... so again, plus one for the losi axles.

I'm simplifying this, but what am i missing? THey seem pretty strong, no worries about drag brakes....... the only thing i can think of is they require a little more maintenance.

[losikid]

Not as fast, not much aftermarket moa chassis support (soon to change)

I like my losi axles, i don't plan on swapping any time soon...especially once i have this chassis i'm making

[Erik D_lux]

I have really thought about an MOA Losi since I have mine on the shelf here. Here is what has stopped me:

Dont like the motor configuration. I like the motor sitting sideways vs. long ways. Really makes mounting a battery difficult.

Axle issues. The CVD's need a stronger/bigger pin. Having super 300's is nicer than you would think also. Having that much turning is a major plus. You could try and mill out the stock CVD for a bigger pin though. I would do this if I ran the LCC again. I am fed up with the small pins to say the least.

Never been a fan of the in front steering setup on the LCC. Youre even more bound to it with the motor in the way now.

The axles are nice and light with tons of ground clearance though. Makes it tempting if you could fix the above issues. Might even be able to mod a super 300 to fit a Losi housing.

[Erik D_lux]

By the way... anybody know what the MOA mounts weigh?

Losi rear axle minus MOA mounts 4.4oz or 125g



Dlux Berg rear axle complete 7.2oz or 204.11g

[losikid]

Both axles, with moa mounts, and all the goodies are 14.75 oz's

rear is 6.5 oz

front is 8.25 oz

This includes everything from wheel nut to wheel nut and all mounting hardware. Just add tires, wheels, motors to the axle...and bolt on the links. Front has alum knuckles/c's

[losikid]

Originally Posted by Erik D_lux

I have really thought about an MOA Losi since I have mine on the shelf here. Here is what has stopped me:

Dont like the motor configuration. I like the motor sitting sideways vs. long ways. Really makes mounting a battery difficult.

Axle issues. The CVD's need a stronger/bigger pin. Having super 300's is nicer than you would think also. Having that much turning is a major plus. You could try and mill out the stock CVD for a bigger pin though. I would do this if I ran the LCC again. I am fed up with the small pins to say the least.

Never been a fan of the in front steering setup on the LCC. Youre even more bound to it with the motor in the way now.

The axles are nice and light with tons of ground clearance though. Makes it tempting if you could fix the above issues. Might even be able to mod a super 300 to fit a Losi housing.

I agree on the cvd's I want to make em bigger but this will mean bigger cup, which will mean c and knuckle mods. So almost a whole new front axle design You ought to make us some erik Its too much work for me as it'll be a one off. Although i may mount up some worn out ones in the mill to accept your BIG pins for the hex's. What Dia are they? Do you have longer ones that will work for the cvd's?

As for the motor config. I like it because it lets me run nice and narrow. Gate maneuverability is a huge plus here locally. As for battery area. I'm putting all my elecs on the axles, so battery will fit in the center chassis just fine.

You ought to build a moa lcc, or get the shafty back out. I should have a chassis here soon that will add aton of clearance. more than some moa chassis

[concretejungle]

talking about the CVD's... what's the big concern? The v3's are already barely breaking and then you have delux's upgraded pin. I'v bound mine up pretty bad at full turn many times and no breakage yet... knock on wood.

OK, so i can see the slower wheel speed. But can't be that much less. I also can see the way the motor is mounted, but still the weight is on the axle even though it's not tucked up front and out back as neat as the others. Just thinking out loud here.... I have access to a few chassis just laying around (beatlejuice and two other) and i have been thinking about this.

[losikid]

Originally Posted by concretejungle

talking about the CVD's... what's the big concern? The v3's are already barely breaking and then you have delux's upgraded pin. I'v bound mine up pretty bad at full turn many times and no breakage yet... knock on wood.

OK, so i can see the slower wheel speed. But can't be that much less. I also can see the way the motor is mounted, but still the weight is on the axle even though it's not tucked up front and out back as neat as the others. Just thinking out loud here.... I have access to a few chassis just laying around (beatlejuice and two other) and i have been thinking about this.

w/out the 4340 pins pins break fairly easy (for me) with them they last awhile buit since they are a stronger material than the cvd it where's at the cvd. So now there's alot of slop between that pin and the cvd wall. and that will actually exponentially grow the amount of force on the pin causing it to snap.as that cvd can get to turning real fast in that small gap and slam into the pin. This is my theory at least. But i'm on on 4th set of v3's. and pins more easily snap when that gap is worn into an egg shape...the cvd's are near bullet proof, but the pins arn't

No its alot slower. Other MOA's with a 35t and a 3s can pull wheelies and jump, a losi with a 35t and 3s can't do that. Its about a walking pace. Only issue i have with the motor position is that when clocking the rear axle up, it hurts the lcg worse than a standard moa. and you have to clock it up more, the more clearance you run in the rear

[Erik D_lux]

Originally Posted by losikid

rear is 6.5 oz

front is 8.25 oz

So really, the one appeal of the Losi axles is not as great as I would have thought. Roughly only 1oz less combined then the Dlux Berg axles.

Originally Posted by losikid

Although i may mount up some worn out ones in the mill to accept your BIG pins for the hex's. What Dia are they? Do you have longer ones that will work for the cvd's?

I need to re check the pins but I think they are .078?

Originally Posted by concretejungle

talking about the CVD's... what's the big concern?

For me it was the straw that broke the camels back.

I thought it would be a great idea to do some preventative maintenance and replace my front axles. Just like Losikid is saying, my ball ends were getting wallowed out and really sloppy. I replaced them with new and I broke 4 CVD pins within a single battery pack. I tried my pins, stock losi pins with the same result. After that I tried some new CVD's again and the same result. For whatever reason I could not get them to survive after that. I even tried limiting my steering severely and that did not help. Keep in mind that this is on 4s and I treated my rig as a basher along with a comp rig.

Originally Posted by concretejungle

OK, so i can see the slower wheel speed. But can't be that much less. I also can see the way the motor is mounted, but still the weight is on the axle even though it's not tucked up front and out back as neat as the others.

Not just slower wheel speed but the power is much less. I could have raced just about any MOA out there with my losi on 4s and won but I never realized how much less torque it had.

There are just so many compromises that I just cant see doing it. If it were ounces less in weight then I can see it. I really like my Berg because I do not feel like there are many compromises. The Losi was one huge compromise for me from steering to battery/electronic mounting. In fact, if I were to go back, I think I would just run the car close to stock and call it a day.

[losikid]

Originally Posted by Erik D_lux

So really, the one appeal of the Losi axles is not as great as I would have thought. Roughly only 1oz less combined then the Dlux Berg axles.

That also includes everything, even wheel nuts. Only thing thats not on it was wheels, tires and motor. All the moa mounts, bolts etc. Some simple machining on the moa mounts would drop weight, aluminum bolts and nuts, plastic knuckles and c's way weigh less as well. This is with stock gears, HD's are abit lighter i think. I'm sure weight could be lost, if you put as much effort into it as you did with the bergs.

[losikid]

Originally Posted by Erik D_lux

Not just slower wheel speed but the power is much less. I could have raced just about any MOA out there with my losi on 4s and won but I never realized how much less torque it had.

There are just so many compromises that I just cant see doing it. If it were ounces less in weight then I can see it. I really like my Berg because I do not feel like there are many compromises. The Losi was one huge compromise for me from steering to battery/electronic mounting. In fact, if I were to go back, I think I would just run the car close to stock and call it a day.

MOA losi's have more torque than the shafties...2 motors vs one.
With my 35t's very rarely do i ever want more torque than the 3s gives, 4s is crazy, 6s is out of this world...i do want to go brushless though and run a 2s

As for compromises, only fault i see is the cvd's which can be fixed. And ground clearance, which the fix is in the works. Currently theres 1 proto out there and i'll be testing another improved version here shortly. I don't have the cash though to have cvd's redesigned and machined out

[losikid]

Here's some cheezy cell pics

[concretejungle]

good discussion.

So maybe my slop is my cvd's wearing out the cup? That's all i can think of it being.

I guess part of me is just trying to stay true to losi since it was my first crawler... kind of like a toyota vs. jeep guy i guess.

I can pop a wheelie with my losi on 3s and in cheat mode. So to me i don't think wheel speed is as much of a factor. The MOA bergs are just sexy and they have me looking but my wallet says ENOUGH from the losi.

[annedecke]

Big advantage of LOSI MOA

Most of the parts you can buy "stock" and the price is cheap.

pair of V3 CVDs = 35$ - and you get them in 2days

Pair of Super 300 = 145$ - nearly unbreakeble but sometimes you had to wait a long time to get them

BTA is not a big problem ....look at my MOA ... neither the battery mounting Erik ;)

[losikid]

Originally Posted by annedecke

Big advantage of LOSI MOA

Most of the parts you can buy "stock" and the price is cheap.

pair of V3 CVDs = 35$ - and you get them in 2days

Pair of Super 300 = 145$ - nearly unbreakeble but sometimes you had to wait a long time to get them

BTA is not a big problem ....look at my MOA ... neither the battery mounting Erik ;)

I'd spend $150 on what ever it takes for some bomb proof cvds for the losi....as i've spent that much in replacing stock ones,

[concretejungle]

i can't believe you are blowing them up that much! I'm pretty hard on mine and broke ALL the other ones of various venders including Losi. But i haven't popped one of these.

[losikid]

Originally Posted by concretejungle

i can't believe you are blowing them up that much! I'm pretty hard on mine and broke ALL the other ones of various venders including Losi. But i haven't popped one of these.

I'm very hard...i've exploded the bearings in my knuckles before, been through quite a few sets of v3's, i go through stock worms like hard candy...i'm afraid to go xr or berg due to price to make em tough. So that leaves me with bullies, and it cost to much to make em light. So i'll stick with the losi, other than the cvd issue i love it. And cvd's only take a dump every few months so i'm ok with that aspect i guess. I'd love some chromoly's or 300m's though

[xgerstandtx]

Losi MOA is not a bad deal, I use 35t handwound HH motors and a RC4WD rocker dig. The rig has enough wheelspeed to compete on 3cell.

I mounted my battery on the rear axle with no issues. I have also used a MOA specific chassis(t1e,beetlejuice CDW). With the MOA chassis i got narrower and bodiless just like the berg/bully guys. Using the stock chassis in an MOA configuration is a pure waste of time.

CVD's work ok, I just recently started going through the Pins on my V3's and wollowing out the shaft section. Being reasonable on 3cell with handwounds and fresh CVD's i could make them last 1 year of heavy compin and practice. HD gears a must in the MOA conversion too.


So with all this said, I just went bully axle. I got tired of the noise that they losi's make, lack of wheelspeed COMPARED to bully/berg rigs. The reliability of bullies is insane.

We all need to remember that Losi is turning their back on us as crawlers in the 2.2 market So it's tough to make new parts and innovate new things.

Here is a few pics of my LOSI MOA:

[NSLST]

pls enlighten me here, am new to MOA, crawler. but I just bought MOA and losi comp, novak 55 m2 is on the way.

why losi comp chassis with MOA is waste of time? where can I buy the beetle juice chassis or other MOA chassis , as well as the white derlin links.

thank you in advance.

[concretejungle]

I don't think anyone is saying it's a waste of time. THe good is that they are light weight and parts are pretty easy to get (stock parts). The downside are that because of the worm gears (instead of a ring and pinion type gearing in others) the wheel speed is slower. Also the orientation of the way the motor mounts is bad in some people's opinion.

If you are going to run MOA with the losi axles i would think you need to use a different chassis then the stock chassis to take advantage of the setup.

here is a link to the chassis you ask about: http://t1erc.com/store/index.php?app...ow&ref=Chassis