LNC vs. LCC Trans

[Jslick]

Got some wheel time in on it today, overall for the first time out with the LNC tranz it was ok, running the 12.3 rotor seemed to work well. It drains a 1300 3s fairly quickly 5-9 min. The wheel speed is so so but the low end control is much better than the 18.5 rotor. Time will tell, I really want this to be my sportsman rig.

[Olle P]

Originally Posted by Jslick

The wheel speed is so so but the low end control is much better than the 18.5 rotor.

18.5 ROTOR?? You don't mean armature?

What's the difference in top speed?
Did you change the gearing?

[pajey]

5-9min! Is that all. Sounds like it really sucks the power.

[Jslick]

Originally Posted by Olle P

18.5 ROTOR?? You don't mean armature?

What's the difference in top speed?
Did you change the gearing?

I am just reading what is on the packaging from Novak. 12.3mm Ballistic Sinistered Rotor. part # 5941 Since it is a brushless setup, it is a bit different than the brushed motor. I have never really had a lot of top speed with my lcc. I would have to say it is slower in comparison to the LCC tranz. I upped the pinion from the 13t I was running to a 17t pinion. I will have to start to playing around with the gearing. I got the tranz used from another member here on RCC, it came with a 12t brushed Titan motor.

[dentonmac]

Originally Posted by Jslick

I am just reading what is on the packaging from Novak. 12.3mm Ballistic Sinistered Rotor. part # 5941 Since it is a brushless setup, it is a bit different than the brushed motor. I have never really had a lot of top speed with my lcc. I would have to say it is slower in comparison to the LCC tranz. I upped the pinion from the 13t I was running to a 17t pinion. I will have to start to playing around with the gearing. I got the tranz used from another member here on RCC, it came with a 12t brushed Titan motor.

You are right, it is rotor for brushless, armature for brushed.

I also just switched to the LNC trans and went with a 16t pinion because that was what was comparable in the gearing charts. I kept the same 17.5 turn on 3s. Well my opinion is they are off. I put in a 20t and much more comparable to the LCC with 12t. I was worried about heat and losing the low end. It actually runs better and cooler. Considering a 22.

I actually have been considering trying going to 4s for the extra kick when needed. I have also read that it improves low end resolution (can't imagine that, but that is what I read). I considered a 13.5, but my concern was current draw and (what you are experiencing) low run times. You know the saying......gear down, volt up!

[Olle P]

Originally Posted by Jslick

... 12.3mm Ballistic Sinistered Rotor.

Sure, but they don't make an 18.5mm rotor. They do however make an 18.5T armature.

Originally Posted by dentonmac

You are right, it is rotor for brushless, armature for brushed.

Not quite. Both types of motors have a rotor and a stator.
In BL the armature is fixed and the magnets rotating.
In brushed motors the armature is rotating and the magnets fixed.

The 18.5T (armature) Ballistic Crawler motor comes with a 14.0mm rotor.

[dentonmac]

Originally Posted by Olle P

Not quite. Both types of motors have a rotor and a stator.
In BL the armature is fixed and the magnets rotating.
In brushed motors the armature is rotating and the magnets fixed.

The 18.5T (armature) Ballistic Crawler motor comes with a 14.0mm rotor.

No disagreement, but just to be clear...we are saying the same thing.

[Jslick]

What size, tooth count are the stock gears in the LNC tranz? What gears would I need to pick up some more wheelspeed?? Already running 3S with a 17t pinion

[WAM]

Originally Posted by Jslick

What size, tooth count are the stock gears in the LNC tranz? What gears would I need to pick up some more wheelspeed?? Already running 3S with a 17t pinion

AFAIK, the motor pinion is the only selectable gear in the LNC drivetrain. (Unless you count the HD spool) I'd suggest you do what I did. Measure wheelspeed over a fixed distance with a stopwatch and start checking pinions from small to big. I went from 12 to 23 and settled on 20. Wheelspeed improvements over the 20t pinion were marginal, so pushing the motor beyond it's sweet spot. Higher gearing will not overcome the effect of worm drag for higher and higher wheelspeeds.

But I'm running 4S with a prototype Brood hi-torque motor so you can't use my results. But same test procedure, sure. Stay tuned for a new "Axle-Buster" motor from Brood once he gets it in production. I got substantial wheelspeed improvement with mine.

[Jslick]

Thanks for the info if I can't seem to find a better way I might just go back to the lcc tranz it seemed faster. I'll have to try your testing suggestion out.

Thanks, john

[EeePee]

Stock LNC is supplied with a 20 tooth pinion.

Stock LCC doesn't come with one but 15 was considered the starting point.

[WAM]

Edit: It bugged me that we're always fumbling around with these numbers when it's just math. So I checked with jgrim who's been interested in this stuff too and we came up with the proper math. The overall ratio between motor shaft and drive shaft:

LCC -- 40/pinion
LNC -- 81.8/pinion

Comparing the two, the LNC is just slightly over twice the reduction of the LCC. So for equal wheelspeed an LCC with a 15 tooth pinion would be about the same as an LNC with a 30 tooth pinion. That's a pretty damn big pinion.

My LNC runs out of useful power at 20 teeth. So an LCC tranny wouldn't improve my wheelspeed.

[Olle P]

Originally Posted by WAM

... for equal wheelspeed an LCC with a 15 tooth pinion would be about the same as an LNC with a 30 tooth pinion. That's a pretty damn big pinion.

I agree, partially.

The LCC tranny has more internal friction, especially with the dig forks in place, so for wheel speed it's safe to say that the LCC tranny is slower with exactly the same total gearing.

I can't see how 15T would be a good starting point for the LCC unless you run a (by crawler standards) pretty high torque BL motor. I've had more success in the 12T-14T range, and that's with the dig forks removed!

The 20T pinion that comes with the LNC is suitable for a cheap 35T brushed motor. In terms of torque it's roughly equivalent to a 9T pinion for the LCC tranny.
(When I ran a LNC motor with a 12T pinion in my LCC it was doable, but required cooling.)

[WAM]

Yeah, I was thinking the same thing. 15T pinion as a starting point on an LCC must give up a lot of low speed control. But...it also has dig, so maybe that makes it work out.

BTW Olle, I was trusting you on the 40/pinion being the correct LCC ratio. You originally posted that and no one ever took issue with the math.