LNC Transmission an Pinion Gear Question!
 

I recently bought my first LNC about a month ago ( completely stock ). I also bought my cousions AX10 ( good parts for a good price! ). The AX10 had a Integy 35T motor on it and I put that on the Night Crawler. It has a lot of torque now with the 20t pinion and all but I was wondering what could I change to make it go faster ( a little more pep to get over the rocks)? Like which gears would I need to change to accomplish more pep?.......Change the pinion gear on the motor or the ones on the outside of the trans????

Thaks For Reading,

Murlin :mrgreen:

Re: LNC Transmission an Pinion Gear Question!
 

Your best bet is to bite the bullet and switch to a Sensored Brushless System.

There are a few variables as to what motor and pinion, but a good all around set-up would be:

13.5 motor
Mamba Max Pro ESC
15T Pinion
3S Battery


I've run this combo in many different rigs with an LNC Trans and had great luck."thumbsup"

What you also can do is the mod... well I call it JENS-mod...( if you look at his build thread you can see it, modifying the middle gear) and change to a 19t pinion.

Next is to change to a Sensored BL system... my suggestion: 18.5 Novak Motor with a MMP or tekin RS with the 4S tap and a 3 or 4 cell LiPo:thumbup:



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Re: LNC Transmission an Pinion Gear Question!
 

Well funny thing is, my cousions AX10 came with a Tekin-FXR and a 2s lipo so I guess all I would need is a 13.5t motor and a smaller pinion?

Re: LNC Transmission an Pinion Gear Question!
 

No!
The Fx-r is for brushed motors only. You need an ESC able to handle sensored brushless motors and have instant reverse.

The two best ESCs fitting the bill are Castle Mamba Max Pro and Tekin RS.

As for motor I'd suggest a Holmes Hobbies Revolver S 540, which is a sensored outrunner with lots of torque and butter smooth thanks to the 14 poles.
With the increased torque you can use a larger pinion, and if the speed still isn't enough just increase the voltage!

Re: LNC Transmission an Pinion Gear Question!
 

I normally run a 17.5t orion with a 15 tooth pinion & timing boost and the wheel speed is awesome! However, I took the revolver S out of my wraith to try in my LNC and there is nowhere enough wheelspeed on 3s with a 20t pinion. Would probably have to run a 25-30t pinion and maybe 4s to get the same speed with the outrunner. I know John is working on a higher kv outrunner that will likely be the ticket for our worms!

Re: LNC Transmission an Pinion Gear Question!
 

Wow! Really???

Not doubting, just disappointed. But glad something better is in the works.

Re: LNC Transmission an Pinion Gear Question!
 

Yeah, I was about to pull the trigger on a stubby 520 s - glad I tried it before ordering. I don't want to deal with the weight of 4s so the current revolver is not an option for me. I wish I could afford to run revolvers on all my other rigs though - coolest motor I've ever had "thumbsup"

Re: LNC Transmission an Pinion Gear Question!
 

Thanks!!! Maybe you can tell me.... Im having a hard time grasping the inrunner and outrunner motors! Ive done research but everything I find is about stupid planes!!

Re: LNC Transmission an Pinion Gear Question!
 

Can you post a link to that thread? I know I've seen it, but now can't find it for some reason. thanks

Re: LNC Transmission an Pinion Gear Question!
 

Just looked at it.

http://www.rccrawler.com/forum/team-...-sporty-3.html

Post #58

I wish he would explain in more detail. If you figure it out, let me know.

I run a 18.5 mmp and 20t on 3s. Like it so far

Re: LNC Transmission an Pinion Gear Question!
 

That seems strange...
My 17.5T is 1870 Kv, and running it with a 12T pinion in the LCC (equivalent to a 15T pinion in the LNC) to me feels a wee bit more sluggish than desired on 4S. I can use a considerably larger pinion without losing too much torque or overheating the motor though, reaching the top speed I want, but I don't because my motor is jerky on very low speed.

Switching to a Revolver S I could go up in Kv AND gearing, getting more speed, while at the same time have a smoother operation at low speed!
The Revolver is supposed to provide so much more torque that gearing up should be no sweat!
3S should get you a long way, when combined with proper gearing.

Inrunner = Rotor on the inside.
Outrunner = Rotor on the outside.

Typically inrunners are: Few poles, high Kv, low torque.
Outrunners are: Many poles, low Kv, high torque.

Revolver S is the only serial production outrunner with sensor.

Re: LNC Transmission an Pinion Gear Question!
 

The large end of the middle gear is just "lathed" off with my drill-press,and the motor-mount holes extended to get the motor closer.
Front gearbox bracket removed,the other two mounts reduced in length and a new side gearbox mount "fabricated" from a servomount :)
The motor-plate is also trimmed a bit ;-)

Re: LNC Transmission an Pinion Gear Question!
 

Thank you. Beautiful. I see now.

The problem was that you did such a good job lathing the gear I thought it was a factory part. I was thinking, well where did you get that gear from. Sneaky...you made it! Awesome.

I know what I am going to try this weekend.

LNC Transmission an Pinion Gear Question!
 

I also think I see this in my future. So if your running the stock center and the motor direct to that, what pinion should be used on the motor? How does the ratio change ? I like the idea of being able to slide the motor closer to center again even if it's slight. I need a chassis and Lcc shocks are gunna be in order for ajust ability

Re: LNC Transmission an Pinion Gear Question!
 

My gearbox now has a 3,33 ratio with a 15t pinion. If my calculations are right-that is about running a 24t pinion with the stock LNC gearbox :)

@ Olle P,-correct me if I'm wrong ;-)

Re: LNC Transmission an Pinion Gear Question!
 

I've found that running a sensored inrunner motor with CHEAT mode actually yields a broader rpm range than running an outrunner in smart sense mode on 3s. The reason is you still get the torque and low end control of a 17.5t below the specified rpm threshold, but above that, the top end is pushed to something close to what a 4500 - 5500kv motor puts out. I can crawl just as slowly with the 17.5t as with the revolver (albeit slightly less smooth), but the top end is easily 2x the rpm.

The obvious trade-off of course is heat. I need to keep my run times shorter with the 17.5, whereas I can run the revolver S all day long, pack after pack, and never overheat.

I am hoping the next generation of revolvers will utilize sensor-based timing advance to achieve a greater rpm range. "thumbsup"

Re: LNC Transmission an Pinion Gear Question!
 

I think that depends on the specific motors used and the timing limitation of MMP.

- Typically using the same timing on a few pole inrunner and a multi pole outrunner will make more of a difference on the inrunner. (But for my inrunner motor 20 degrees of timing, the MMP maximum, is considered to be "a little".)
- With zero physical timing on the sensor the behaviour should be the same in SMART and CHEAT mode, given that the same high speed timing is set. SMART is supposed to work better, because the ESC's electronics can have a hard time keeping up at high sensor speeds.

Anyway, I'm now waiting for the Revolver S to come back in stock so I can order one and find out for myself.

Re: LNC Transmission an Pinion Gear Question!
 

I totally agree. You can tune it to have the torque at the low end and ramp the timing up to get the RPMs out of it, without having to jump to 4s.

That surprises me, I have had excellent results with the motor staying cool. I think after 3 packs the motor is barely warm. Granted, I am not pounding on it, but I sure ain't Driving Mrs. Daisy. I am also not in the upper RPM range much at all. Also the lifeblood for motors in these things is drivetrain efficiency. I am thankful for my stock-class racing background, where drivetrain efficiency is paramount.

EDIT: I am running a 17.5 motor also.

I am definitely not an expert here, but I wouldn't get your hopes up. Mechanically speaking, The more 'poles' a motor has the less it takes to timing advance. The Revolver motors are 14 pole (I think). That is one of the reasons I have stuck so long with the 2 pole motors. Although JENs has changed things alittle with his LNC tranny mod, I think that realm of being able to tune timing is important to get the performance out of them the way Losi tranny hamstrungs us for gearing options.

Re: LNC Transmission an Pinion Gear Question!
 

Ok so Im a little tight on money right now and the setup is a Integy 35t brushed motor with a 2000mah 2s lipo battery with a 20t pinion. Now if I wanted to get a little more wheel speed I would reduce the size of the pinion right?

LNC Transmission an Pinion Gear Question!
 

Smaller p-more torque/less wheel speed
Larger p-more wheel speed/less torque

If u want to stay cheap and brushed keep your 20t pinion and go get a Titan 21t 550 motor and toss that in. Will I've you more torque and wheel speed. It is like 20$ or so.

Re: LNC Transmission an Pinion Gear Question!
 

Alright thanks man! Ya Im gonna keep it brushed right now, but when I go brushless and get a new esc, I have no freaking idea where to wire things up!!!:shock:

Re: LNC Transmission an Pinion Gear Question!
 

The Titan is a brushed motor. It is a 550 can, meaning bigger motor. More torque.

WHEN you do decide to go brushless, hit us up, we are glad to help. There are alot of wires, and alot of choices....most bad. We will help you not make the mistakes we did.

^what he said "thumbs up"

Re: LNC Transmission an Pinion Gear Question!
 

Alright thanks guys! Ill post some picks of the set up at this piont!

I am running the Titan setup in my extra lnc still. It's heavy but cheap and powerful

Re: LNC Transmission an Pinion Gear Question!
 

Awesome! yea this Integy 35t just dosent have the wheel speed (the pop!) dont get me wrong its got tons of torque tho!

Re: LNC Transmission an Pinion Gear Question!
 

The JENS LNC Tranny mod (mentioned earlier in this thread) might also be a good option to get some of that pop back out of the brushed motor.

It increases (or decreases - I can't remember) the ratio like you are running a much larger pinion (so you get the wheel speed), but it does not seem to lose the low end or heat up the motor that comes with running a much larger pinion.

So far i am pretty impressed.

Edit: Just thinking after I posted this, the mod might bring brushed motors back into play as a viable option for the Losi....Might

Re: LNC Transmission an Pinion Gear Question!
 

Thats a good Point!

Here are some pics!


http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/03/20/epyru6um.jpg
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/03/20/de2etuqu.jpghttp://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/03/20/jy2uva6y.jpghttp://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/03/20/2y5agyjy.jpghttp://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/03/20/pujypazu.jpg


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Re: LNC Transmission an Pinion Gear Question!
 

Great start. Work on getting the battery and electronics closer to the axle. The chassis is convenient to place everything, but the worst place to do it. All that weight is up high (Center of Gravity), and sprung (springs having to work the suspension as well as support that weight). With the tiny FXR and small batt, it should be much simpler. Hope that makes sense.

Love the Sedonas. Get some more miles on those things, and wash them with Simple Green and they will really come to life. I got my set used (very used) and just was going to run them until I go a new pair. I got a new pair, and ended up putting my old ones back on. I liked the old ones so much, that was two years ago.

Re: LNC Transmission an Pinion Gear Question!
 

Ok, what is simple green and where you get some? Also I have been poltting and thought on the subjec matter of moving things around. Like I said, Im kinda low on $$$ right now ( still in school:???:) so ill be making a parts list and researching/asking questions in the time being.:mrgreen:

It's an all purpose cleaner, next to the spray cleaners at any grocery store "thumbsup"

Sweet, an you just spray that on the tires and let it sit/dry?


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Re: LNC Transmission an Pinion Gear Question!
 

Yes, I spray it and rub them down to clean them. Then hit them again and let them sit wet for at least 12 hours.

Re: LNC Transmission an Pinion Gear Question!
 

Ok great! Now ive been intensiveley reading on the all the comp crawler forms and the major brand of suspension I see is the Traxxia Big Bore shocks and I have some of those, are they what you want for comp crawling.....whats there purpose?

Also what is the best way to put my battery (as seen earlier in the thread) onto the axles? Is there an aftermarket batt tray?

Lastly what is the best way to lengthen the axles....like, is there spacers you can buy or will I have to manafacture them?

Re: LNC Transmission an Pinion Gear Question!
 

It's a matter of definition. (Had a lengthy discussion about this subject on another forum.)

If you define the timing angle by how many degrees the motor axle rotates (typical endbell timing) you're correct.

The normal way, however, is to define timing in terms of ("ignition") cycles, of which there are more per axle revolution the more poles there are. (A 14 pole motor has seven cycles per axle revolution.)
Each cycle is seen as one 360 degrees revolution.
Timing is added to make up for delays in "current on" due to electromagnetic and and semiconductor phenomena. This delay (as measured in "per cent of cycle") is typically larger for multipole motors than for low pole motors.
Hence you can typically use more timing for a multipole motor than for a two-pole.

More poles = Better!
* Smoother at low speed.
* More torque.
* More efficiency.
(Less motor top speed is no disadvantage here.)