Feeler - Lightweight Lower Cost Comp Beadlock

[monkeyracer]

I'm looking at making some low cost lightweight beadlocks available for Comp crawlers.



These would end up being about 24g (based on solidworks calculations) with stainless screws, aluminum standoffs, delrin rear ring, Lexan front ring, and 3D printed beadlock channels (ABS) (but weight without hubs).

I'd be shooting for around $100-$125 shipped or so for a full set of 4 including hardware. (Available individually as well.)

Like many of the available comp wheels:
Variable width by doing different standoffs and spacers
Variable offset by moving the wheel face in and out
Compatible with vp and shift hubs
Variety of wheel face designs available as well as materials
Easily replace individual parts if something breaks

But, what will set these apart is
the low weight (under an ounce for each wheel),
the beadlock system (don't have to worry about glue),
the low price (I don't think anyone offers a wheel like this for around this price, correct me if I am wrong.)

These should be compatible with most knuckle weights with the inside diameter of the rear ring at 46mm.

Width ranges from about .7 to 1.5 (or larger if you want them to be super wide)

There are color options as well, the bead channels can be in Black, White, Red, or Blue, but I can look into other colors as well. The Lexan can be painted to match or coordinate with any body color.

The wheel faces would be Clear Lexan, Natural Aluminum, Black or White Delrin, and possibly G10 or CF (If I can get a good shop to cut them at a good price). These can also possibly be used for Scale Rigs with some scale wheel faces.
There will be other wheel face options, but the initial design - snowflake pattern - is a nod to the old school snowflake wheel.

The rear rings would be black Delrin for cost, but may be able to be upgraded to other materials.

1.9 option will be available as well, priced a little under the 2.2 I would think.

So, what do you guys think? Is this something you would be interested in? Price point seem about right? Anything you would change?

If there seems to be enough interest, then I will start a pre-order thread later.

Pics of the initial prototype coming soon.

[Solitaire]

I suppose, ideally, you'd want to get a couple of sets out to some testers to see how they hold up. I'm not entirely sold on the structural integrity of 3D printed material...yet.

[monkeyracer]

Originally Posted by Solitaire

I suppose, ideally, you'd want to get a couple of sets out to some testers to see how they hold up. I'm not entirely sold on the structural integrity of 3D printed material...yet.

The part that is 3D printed doesn't need to be strong. All it does is hold the bead to the front plate. Screws thread into metal, hubs mount to the same material as the other wheels.

But, yes, there will be testers...

[Trubble]

Originally Posted by monkeyracer

Variable offset by moving the wheel face in and out

So how would this work?
Do you put the face inside the tire, and the ring (normally inside the tire) you would spin 180° and use on the outside of the bead?
Or is there two rings, and you'd just move the face from outside the outer ring to inside the inner ring?

[monkeyracer]

Originally Posted by Trubble

So how would this work?
Do you put the face inside the tire, and the ring (normally inside the tire) you would spin 180° and use on the outside of the bead?
Or is there two rings, and you'd just move the face from outside the outer ring to inside the inner ring?

For that case, you would need to get an additional set of rings so that the face was on the inside, and a ring on each outside.

[monkeyracer]

Quick and dirty cell pic of the prototype.
Holds the bead pretty well...

[Szczerba]

Nice.

[picklewagon]

Very interesting

[crawl-o-matic]

The only kind of 3D printing that will hold up is SLS nylon...all others will fail over time. Why? They're non-composite materials that rapidly oxidize = not indicated for high impact products.

[monkeyracer]

Originally Posted by crawl-o-matic

The only kind of 3D printing that will hold up is SLS nylon...all others will fail over time. Why? They're non-composite materials that rapidly oxidize = not indicated for high impact products.

ABS is high impact. The only part in the production run that would be 3D printed is the bead channel, which is actually a fairly low stress part of the wheel. The spacers hold the outer bead to the inner bead sandwiching the tire in the bead channel, the wheel face carries the most stress at the hub, but these would be made out of materials already proven to work in these types of wheels. If you really think about it, the bead channel is simply a fancy plastic spacer that happens to clamp the bead.

SLS Nylon bead channels, at least this simple design, would end up being about $80 for a set of 4 wheels. That's a little higher than I think a lot of people would want to pay for just the bead channels, without really any added durability over the ABS.

The bead channel is really the only place I trust the 3D printed material though. Once the part is made, it is just as stable as any other injection molded ABS piece. I can make the beads from FDM nylon, but I don't think it would be worth the extra material cost, set-up, and print time.


These will be getting tested fairly soon, but I would be up to make a bead channel for an existing wheel design to have someone test (actually wouldn't be that hard, just a matter of modifying the bolt pattern...)

[Calderwood]

If you are already machining the face and rings why wouldn't you machine all of it? The production costs are much lower to machine a 2.5d part like that than to print it. Printing makes sense for parts that are hard to jig but that part that you are proposing to print is the easiest type to machine.

[monkeyracer]

Originally Posted by Calderwood

If you are already machining the face and rings why wouldn't you machine all of it? The production costs are much lower to machine a 2.5d part like that than to print it. Printing makes sense for parts that are hard to jig but that part that you are proposing to print is the easiest type to machine.

The 2D parts are all farmed out, waterjet (lexan) or laserjet (delrin) cut. The intention of this wheel is to keep the price for a full set to about $125. I have quotes out on machining, but I doubt they are going to get anywhere near the price for printing.

[Calderwood]

Originally Posted by monkeyracer

The 2D parts are all farmed out, waterjet (lexan) or laserjet (delrin) cut. The intention of this wheel is to keep the price for a full set to about $125. I have quotes out on machining, but I doubt they are going to get anywhere near the price for printing.

That really surprises me. How long does one of these bead channels take to print?

And btw, I think you should definitely make them. The more options the better.

[monkeyracer]

Originally Posted by Calderwood

That really surprises me. How long does one of these bead channels take to print?

And btw, I think you should definitely make them. The more options the better.

Depending on the settings just over 2 hours for a full set of 4 wheels. (8 Bead channels)

The first machining quote just came in... $456 for a set of 4 wheels IF i order 12 sets...
I know they can be machined for less than that, but I still don't think they are going to come close to the 3D printed versions.

[crawl-o-matic]

The real problem with printed abs is how quickly it oxidizes...this problem may be solved down the road. The part you're talking about isn't low stress due to the fact that the bead ring needs to exert considerable psi on it in order for the tire bead to sit properly. You'd be much better off machining this part...lexan?? Try to get a quote from a company that retails plastics as most of them have cnc services and if you order enough, it shouldn't be all that expensive per unit.

[crawl-o-matic]

$456 for a set of 4 wheels IF i order 12 sets...

This price reflects near earospace level machining...

[monkeyracer]

Originally Posted by crawl-o-matic

The real problem with printed abs is how quickly it oxidizes...this problem may be solved down the road. The part you're talking about isn't low stress due to the fact that the bead ring needs to exert considerable psi on it in order for the tire bead to sit properly. You'd be much better off machining this part...lexan?? Try to get a quote from a company that retails plastics as most of them have cnc services and if you order enough, it shouldn't be all that expensive per unit.

Don't see what you are talking about with oxidation. I printed some parts almost a year ago that are just as the day they came off the printer. I use this particular part every day, and it's holding up just fine...
Maybe you have seen oxidation of the resin, but once printed, the thermal process sets the resin, and it retains the same properties as injection molded parts. ABS injection molded parts are some of the most common plastics that we all encounter.

I'm pretty sure the tires or foams will degrade faster than the ABS... I couldn't find a single source talking about the oxidization of ABS after processing, so if you have a link, I'd love to see it.

As far as low stress, it's the lowest stressed part of the whole assembly. You don't need THAT much force to hold the bead tight... really.

Originally Posted by crawl-o-matic

$456 for a set of 4 wheels IF i order 12 sets...

This price reflects near aerospace level machining...

Yeah, ridiculous... I told them I wasn't looking for something that crazy...
Different quote came to about $100 per set of 4 for just the bead channels, injection molded from delrin, would need to order 25 sets minimum though...

I still think printed ABS is the way to keep these inexpensive, but still hold up to the abuse these rigs see. Machining cost would have to drop to below $30 for a set of 4 wheels (8 bead channels) and I don't think I'm ever going to get there unless I order 1000's of them. Unless you guys have a machine shop that can do a part like this for a reasonable price...

[monkeyracer]

Originally Posted by monkeyracer

For that case, you would need to get an additional set of rings so that the face was on the inside, and a ring on each outside.

Hope this pic helps explain this:



The wheel on the left is the same as the first pic on the first post, the wheel on the right has the wheel face on the inside of the bead channel and an extra bead ring on the outside. The offset can be changed easily with moving this configuration around and adding hub spacers if need be.

Because it's not a glue on wheel, this can be changed at any time too. Foam tuning is easy, and no worries about needing a bunch of wheel sets trying different tires.

[Szczerba]

awesome.

[Natedog]

Originally Posted by monkeyracer

I'm looking at making some low cost lightweight beadlocks available for Comp crawlers.



These would end up being about 24g (based on solidworks calculations) with stainless screws, aluminum standoffs, delrin rear ring, Lexan front ring, and 3D printed beadlock channels (ABS) (but weight without hubs).

I'd be shooting for around $100-$125 shipped or so for a full set of 4 including hardware. (Available individually as well.)

Like many of the available comp wheels:
Variable width by doing different standoffs and spacers
Variable offset by moving the wheel face in and out
Compatible with vp and shift hubs
Variety of wheel face designs available as well as materials
Easily replace individual parts if something breaks

But, what will set these apart is
the low weight (under an ounce for each wheel),
the beadlock system (don't have to worry about glue),
the low price (I don't think anyone offers a wheel like this for around this price, correct me if I am wrong.)

These should be compatible with most knuckle weights with the inside diameter of the rear ring at 46mm.

Width ranges from about .7 to 1.5 (or larger if you want them to be super wide)

There are color options as well, the bead channels can be in Black, White, Red, or Blue, but I can look into other colors as well. The Lexan can be painted to match or coordinate with any body color.

The wheel faces would be Clear Lexan, Natural Aluminum, Black or White Delrin, and possibly G10 or CF (If I can get a good shop to cut them at a good price). These can also possibly be used for Scale Rigs with some scale wheel faces.
There will be other wheel face options, but the initial design - snowflake pattern - is a nod to the old school snowflake wheel.

The rear rings would be black Delrin for cost, but may be able to be upgraded to other materials.

1.9 option will be available as well, priced a little under the 2.2 I would think.

So, what do you guys think? Is this something you would be interested in? Price point seem about right? Anything you would change?

If there seems to be enough interest, then I will start a pre-order thread later.

Pics of the initial prototype coming soon.

Looks good, aluminum lock rings front are rear would be good and 1.9 for Honcho.