How and when did this happen?

[WHITE-TRASH]

Originally Posted by ferp420

it dose im on my second year of testing

the thing is its always been there people are just to hung up on foam to try anything else

i would imagine that this wont work for comp rigs cause of the extra weight it adds to the tire
but for a scaler it will solve alot of issues with foams no more wet smelly foams that degrade in a few months then need to be changed or get flat spots

Yea, I'm not going to turd-ucken 3 sets of tires into 1. Foam is cheap and expendable so as it degrades it gets replaced.

[ferp420]

Originally Posted by WHITE-TRASH

Yea, I'm not going to turd-ucken 3 sets of tires into 1. Foam is cheap and expendable so as it degrades it gets replaced.

did you tryed it

[struhall]

Originally Posted by ferp420

did you tryed it

What's that about 3 stages of foam?

[WHITE-TRASH]

Originally Posted by ferp420

did you tryed it

Nope. I can see how it would work but foam is far too tunable and easily acquired.

[ferp420]

Originally Posted by WHITE-TRASH

Nope. I can see how it would work but foam is far too tunable and easily acquired.

absolutly for a a comp rig for absolut performance your right but on a scaler thats heavy i think itss is a better option

and im cheap i cant see buying the same thing over and over just to save alittle weight

and its a good way to reuse old tires lol

[QuesoDelDiablo]

Originally Posted by ferp420

seal tires suck agreed but what if there was a kinda inner somthing other than foam that is tunable wont hold water and wont get flat spots and is still vented and still acts like duel stage foams

Originally Posted by ferp420

it dose im on my second year of testing

the thing is its always been there people are just to hung up on foam to try anything else

i would imagine that this wont work for comp rigs cause of the extra weight it adds to the tire
but for a scaler it will solve alot of issues with foams no more wet smelly foams that degrade in a few months then need to be changed or get flat spots

Are you saying that you have a system that uses something other than foam but actually supports the tread face and sidewalls?

I'd be really interested to know more if that's the case.

[lkvisser]

Second this...,

Maybe it’s what we all are using here up north..,
Called water.., run vented tires and you get the perfect support and flex.

Waterbed inserts anyone...



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[ferp420]

Originally Posted by QuesoDelDiablo

Are you saying that you have a system that uses something other than foam but actually supports the tread face and sidewalls?

I'd be really interested to know more if that's the case.

yes i posted a thread about i.t.s.s.

its so simple its stupid but hay have a look and give it a try for your self

i know it works for me

[fyrstormer]

Closed-foam inserts have been available for bicycle tires for years and years, but almost nobody uses them because they get ground to dust in a short time. (they are common in light-duty applications like wheelbarrows and self-propelled lawnmowers, though.) However, to my knowledge, nobody who's ever tried closed-cell bicycle tire inserts has also tried the time-tested advice to prevent abrasion between tires and innertubes -- put the innertube in a paper bag with some baby powder (the old-fashioned talcum powder kind, not the new eco-friendly cornstarch kind) and shake it to coat the innertube with powder. Presumably talcum powder would reduce abrasion between tires and closed-cell foam inserts as well.

That being said, I haven't seen closed-cell foam inserts for RC tires suffer from the same kind of abrasion that closed-cell inserts for bicycle tires do, so it might not be a useful suggestion in an RC context anyway.

In any event, using innertubes for RC tires would be way more trouble than it's worth. A tire with a degraded foam insert will still work; a tire with a popped innertube won't work. I know which setup I'd rather be using when I'm in the woods a mile away from my ride home.

As for venting your tires -- unless you can guarantee the tires will never get wet during a run, you should always vent them, even if the rims are also vented. I even vent my non-crawler tires if they're installed on vehicles that I sometimes run in wet weather. Yeah, water gets into the foams easier with vented tires, but it can get out of the foams again without requiring me to dismount the tires (not practical when the tires are glued).

Take all of that with a brick of salt, though; I'm one of those people who really is content to use stock open-cell foams on my crawlers, though they're overstuffed to give them a little more stiffness.

[TheLetterJ]

Closed cell foam has been used in nearly every competitive high speed offroad race motorcycle tire for decades, hardly a light duty application! Michelin was the first big name to bring them to market, which is why they're commonly known as a "Bib Mousse"... "Bib" being the Michelin Man's actual name, and "mousse" being the French (Michelin is a French company) word for foam. Big difference there is that we slather them with silicone grease when mounting to nearly eliminate friction between the tire and mousse. On a high speed bike (some rally bikes can maintain 120mph in the flats) the heat buildup can be a real problem as the foam doesn't get pulverized, it actually expands... like a Peep in the microwave. Most rough-terrain forklifts run foam filled tires too, but hey, what's 30,000lbs?

Continuing with the motorcycle sidebar...

There's several other tube/mousse/foam alternatives out there too. A popular product known as Tubliss uses basically the same concept Ferp420 is using: a small tire stuffed in a big tire. With Tubliss, they basically use a road bicycle tire with a high pressure tube to hold the main tire's beads against the wheel, even with zero pressure in the main tire. Lot's of full size offroad race trucks/buggies also run tire liners that are just an inflated Kevlar bag accomplishing the same thing as the Tubliss does. My KMC 222 wheels came predrilled to accept these liners, Staun sells kits to add them to almost any wheel too.

Another alternative seen in motorcycles is a product called "Tire Balls." They're just a more elegant version of the old (think: late '60's-'80's) racers trick of stuffing a tire full of tennis balls and then mounting. Like Ferp420's idea, it really relies on the rigidity of the insert to support the weight, not really air pressure.

Humvee's have used the "tire in a tire" method since the beginning, originally having a 2 piece magnesium run flat, later switching to a rubber run flat. Both version were heavily coated in grease to reduce friction and allow them to drive at moderate speeds with zero air pressure.

I guess all that is to say that the idea does work. That being said, foam has the unique ability to deaden an impact with virtually no rebound, so while it may make feedback on a motorcycle more vague, I think that is actually a big enough benefit on our rc crawlers to want to stick with foam. I'm sure with some time spent on test & tune, the tire-in-tire method can be tuned in to work desirably, but at this size, foam is working well enough for me to have no desire to change... except those $4!++y, way too soft open cell foams that are included with nearly every crawler tire! You're doing yourself a disservice by not trying something else!

I know that didn't even address venting!

[ferp420]

since this is so off topic i quoted and responded in my thread

I.T.S.S the foam alternitive

[oldmancrawl]

I've been using eavestrough/rain gutter foam. Check it out at the hardware store. Size about 36"x6", 1" or so thick. It's some type of plastic mesh so it doesn't hold water. Seems durable enough to maintain it's shape. It's slightly firmer than most stock open cell foam and strands can be cut with knife or scissors to soften it. Easy enough to make two-stage with inners from closed cell foam glued together. First season, so far so good.

[lkvisser]

Originally Posted by oldmancrawl

I've been using eavestrough/rain gutter foam. Check it out at the hardware store. Size about 36"x6", 1" or so thick. It's some type of plastic mesh so it.... First season, so far so good.

Sounds interesting.., have to take a look.

Here’s another idea that I have yet to try...


Found in different sizes., most dollar stores. Softer than a rounder dish scrubber??

Comes in all colourd


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[indybama]

Originally Posted by lkvisser

Sounds interesting.., have to take a look.

Here’s another idea that I have yet to try...


Found in different sizes., most dollar stores. Softer than a rounder dish scrubber??

Comes in all colourd


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Wonder how longbitd take my wife to notice her scrunchies are missin lmbo

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[tjohanne]

After reading all this, I love my CI Deuces Wild even more..

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[lkvisser]

Originally Posted by indybama

Wonder how longbitd take my wife to notice her scrunchies are missin lmbo

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Hopefully not until you’re out the door....

Hahaha


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[TheLetterJ]

queue the pool noodle comments!

[Browneye]

Yeah no...Lil-Nova's is the answer.

[mhowzit]

Originally Posted by WHITE-TRASH

When performance is the goal sealed isn't an option whatsoever.

I hear that! I don't care if it's a comp rig or a tiny tire scaler, tires are always vented, with 2 stage foams! I also always make sure that I mount my tires with the vent holes in the same spot, so when I store my rigs, all holes are facing down, with another hole at the 12 o'clock position. I also always store my rigs with the tires off the ground, to prevent flat spots and let the water drain. A two stage foam, with a degraded outer, still performs better than a single stage, IMO. Besides, the inner stage last damn near forever and the outer is a cheap replacement. I chalk it up to maintenance cost. It's like the old saying, "You got to pay to play".

[fyrstormer]

Originally Posted by TheLetterJ

Closed cell foam has been used in nearly every competitive high speed offroad race motorcycle tire for decades, hardly a light duty application! Michelin was the first big name to bring them to market, which is why they're commonly known as a "Bib Mousse"... "Bib" being the Michelin Man's actual name, and "mousse" being the French (Michelin is a French company) word for foam. Big difference there is that we slather them with silicone grease when mounting to nearly eliminate friction between the tire and mousse. On a high speed bike (some rally bikes can maintain 120mph in the flats) the heat buildup can be a real problem as the foam doesn't get pulverized, it actually expands... like a Peep in the microwave. Most rough-terrain forklifts run foam filled tires too, but hey, what's 30,000lbs?

Good idea covering the foam inserts with grease. Depending on the rubber compound though, silicone grease might not be a good choice. A lot of closed-cell foams nowadays are also silicone, and nothing destroys silicone rubber faster than silicone oil or grease.

Originally Posted by TheLetterJ

Continuing with the motorcycle sidebar...

There's several other tube/mousse/foam alternatives out there too. A popular product known as Tubliss uses basically the same concept Ferp420 is using: a small tire stuffed in a big tire. With Tubliss, they basically use a road bicycle tire with a high pressure tube to hold the main tire's beads against the wheel, even with zero pressure in the main tire. Lot's of full size offroad race trucks/buggies also run tire liners that are just an inflated Kevlar bag accomplishing the same thing as the Tubliss does. My KMC 222 wheels came predrilled to accept these liners, Staun sells kits to add them to almost any wheel too.

Another alternative seen in motorcycles is a product called "Tire Balls." They're just a more elegant version of the old (think: late '60's-'80's) racers trick of stuffing a tire full of tennis balls and then mounting. Like Ferp420's idea, it really relies on the rigidity of the insert to support the weight, not really air pressure.

Humvee's have used the "tire in a tire" method since the beginning, originally having a 2 piece magnesium run flat, later switching to a rubber run flat. Both version were heavily coated in grease to reduce friction and allow them to drive at moderate speeds with zero air pressure.

I guess all that is to say that the idea does work. That being said, foam has the unique ability to deaden an impact with virtually no rebound, so while it may make feedback on a motorcycle more vague, I think that is actually a big enough benefit on our rc crawlers to want to stick with foam. I'm sure with some time spent on test & tune, the tire-in-tire method can be tuned in to work desirably, but at this size, foam is working well enough for me to have no desire to change... except those $4!++y, way too soft open cell foams that are included with nearly every crawler tire! You're doing yourself a disservice by not trying something else!

I know that didn't even address venting!

I have tried high-end foams. (EDIT: except for those awful memory-foams that Pro-Line includes with some of their tires.) That's how I know I prefer the stock foams. Yes, I know, I'm a very strange man. I run closed-cell foams in my buggies and SCTs, and I have a stash of discontinued HPI 1.9" x 26mm closed-cell foams for touring car tires that I use on one of my touring cars, but I run open-cell foams in everything else. Closed-cell has too much impact rebound for off-road driving, in my opinion; the air trapped in the closed-cell foam increases in pressure very rapidly as the tire squishes on impact, so it bounces back much harder as well. Whereas with open-cell foam, the air isn't trapped inside the foam, so the impact is absorbed by compressing the foam itself, and the foam doesn't rebound nearly as vigorously as the air trapped inside closed-cell foam. It matters even more for solid-axle trucks like rock crawlers, where the suspension doesn't do much to absorb impacts because most of the truck's weight unsprung weight. That's the best explanation I can give as to why I prefer open-cell foams in my crawler tires. If it's any consolation, all of my crawler tires are overstuffed to give the foams some "preload".