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Old 07-17-2010, 06:42 PM   #1
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Default Mist or flood cooling

I am working a lot with delrin lately on my harbor freight lathe (yea... great machine it is, but it gets the job done ) and I am wondering what you guys think is a better method for keeping the delrin and drill bit cool when drilling a lot of blind holes.

I have tried a low PSI air system blowing onto the cutter with "marginal" results, at least it keeps the scraps from getting all in the way (pecking helps also!)

I have NOT tried a flood coolant system but I know working with some UHMW-PE at my machine shop class, the UMHW sure did a nice job of staying cool and under control when worked with flood cooling

I have NOT tried a mist coolant system but I like the idea of combining compressed air with a thin mist of coolant. Seems like a not very messy option either (good thing )

What do you guys think is best/a good coolant choice that isn't very expensive, not toxic and won't rust the heck out of the lathe
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Old 07-17-2010, 08:55 PM   #2
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I would do the flood type coolant as the cooler it stays the better, also it will work good if you decide to machine some metal As far as the type of coolant there are tons out there to choose from, Some really stink when you get it on your hands, almost smells like piss
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Old 07-17-2010, 09:07 PM   #3
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"Ditto" on flood.

Chuck
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Old 07-17-2010, 10:26 PM   #4
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I will see if I can't slip a few $$$ to my shop teacher and see if I can't get my hands on some old coolant that we got in shop. It works good, I am so used to the "old style" oil can + brush, works but oil and delrin can be a pain sometimes

Any good coolants I can get from like McMasterCarr, I don't need much, maybe 1/2 a gallon at most, I had a mini flood setup for about 20 mins pumping old nitro fuel (yea brilliant ) and it worked in theory but in reality, it was just a giant mess so the theory is there for sure I just need a nice big box to set it into

I found this stuff on Tap Magic's site, http://www.tapmagic.com/TMform1.htm is that what I should be aiming for (considering its water based...) I am getting some "parabolic drills" in sometime next week so I will see how they do in blind holes vs. regular twist ones. I did temp my Delrin at about 140* on the outside and my drill at 110* after a single cut, with pecking, and air blowing.

Last edited by Crawling Calvin; 07-18-2010 at 12:26 AM.
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Old 07-18-2010, 01:12 AM   #5
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anti freeze and oil mix.........bob

....
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Old 07-19-2010, 05:39 PM   #6
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what about differential fluid ?

it does stink though
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Old 07-19-2010, 07:01 PM   #7
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Antifreeze = BAD idea... that stuff is mad toxic, not touching it

I am thinking WD-40 may do the trick since it will "dissolve" into water and be pretty easy to clean up Considering most "water based" lubricants and tapping solutions are pretty expensive, I will try that and if it works, im happy.

For tapping I may actually try dish soap, my shop teacher knows his stuff and he goes "hmm... yeah dish soap may do the trick since its cheap, its easy to wash out and I think people use that stuff a lot..." Hey when you go to clean the parts, they already have some soap on them
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Old 07-19-2010, 09:21 PM   #8
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Anti-freeze is a very bad idea, especially when it's atomized in the air your breathing.
When I'm just doing onesy-twosy stuff I just use air from an air gun. You could blow the chips right out.
In production I use flood because I could run the parts faster.

Liquid dish soap is great to use. It's especially amazing with teflon. Just run it thin though, just a few drops of soap to a cup of water.

Last edited by JeepinDoug; 07-19-2010 at 09:23 PM.
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Old 07-19-2010, 09:24 PM   #9
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Doug, what coolant do you use? I like the Aqueous Formula 1 by Tap Magic (NOT Tapmatic) but I am not to sure if it can easily be thinned... I will give the parabolic drills and WD-40 a try but I am really thinking I need something a little better!

I remember my shop teacher saying "the scary part of anti-freeze is how it tastes so good!... a kid could polish off a jug thinking its kool-aid... bad stuff!"
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Old 07-19-2010, 09:34 PM   #10
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In the shop I use Trim-Sol. It's a water soluble machine oil that must be thinned with water and kept to a specific percentage dependant on the material you're working with.
At home I use nothing for plastics. Cutting oils for tapping metals. Castrol makes the best tapping fluid in my opinion which is Moly-Dee but you don't use it in a mist. Brush it on and use. Moly-Dee has saved my butt many times tapping Hi-temp alloys. It's also not ISO approve because of it's sulfur content, or atleast the old stuff I have is not, they may have changed the ingredients.
I thought Aqueous fluids were able to thinned by water, that's what makes them home friendly, unlike solvents.
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Old 07-19-2010, 09:42 PM   #11
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My "real scientific" take is this:
If it is water based, it SHOULD be able to be thinned with water. I guess its worth sending an email over

What kind of work do you do on Delrin? I just wonder if a drill bit change is all I need i have machined Delrin, UHMW, Nylon, all without any lubes other than compressed air without any issues, everyone stares at me like I am nuts but it works (metal guys )
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Old 07-19-2010, 09:48 PM   #12
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Mostly CNC lathe and Delrin would be about .5% of the material I machine year round. I mostly work with Copper alloys, Nickel alloys and some exotics.
Deep holes in Delrin are a little tricky, the plastic heats up and gets soft around the drill. Dish soap should help alot.
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Old 07-19-2010, 09:51 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JeepinDoug View Post
Mostly CNC lathe and Delrin would be about .5% of the material I machine year round. I mostly work with Copper alloys, Nickel alloys and some exotics.
Deep holes in Delrin are a little tricky, the plastic heats up and gets soft around the drill. Dish soap should help alot.
Ok cool, my shop teacher suggested that as an idea. Just wanted to back it up before I went out there and did a ton of "messing around"

I remember temping the plastic at 140* after a cut with a regular 118* 2.5MM black/gold drill bit, pretty new, and the bit at 110*... yeah, not good. Pecking helps a little but I just try and get the bit in and out ASAP!
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Old 07-21-2010, 06:38 AM   #14
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I machine and turn several hundred pounds of Delrin a year and I have never in my life used any type of coolant.
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Old 07-22-2010, 07:00 PM   #15
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Yeah, I guess for me tooling is the secret. Keeping the bit in the hole as little as possible is part of the secret. Wish I had a CNC lathe... but I don't. I do know that regular machining, its awesome, but then again I run a low RPM and just feed it in like mad unless im making a "smoothing pass" then I RPM up and feed down to get it to melt (slightly) to a super smooth surface finish
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Old 07-23-2010, 03:58 PM   #16
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A good sharp tool and lots of air is all you should need for plastics.
For steel, I flood using Rustlick Ultracut 250R in my CNC and my surface grinder. For misting, I've used TriCo Cool Mist or something along those lines. Misting is ok but not the greatest. The worst part about misting is when you get some dummy that likes to crank it all the way up and ends up fogging up the whole shop.
For aluminum on a manual machine, I like to use good old fashion kerosene and a carbide tool. Aluminum doesn't weld itself to carbide like it can to HSS. At the minimum I will take some of the flood coolant and use a pump spray bottle for metal or aluminum.
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Old 07-23-2010, 07:44 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FRIZZLEFRY View Post
I machine and turn several hundred pounds of Delrin a year and I have never in my life used any type of coolant.

Same here, dry, except when tapping.
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Old 07-23-2010, 07:46 PM   #18
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What do you do for blind hole drilling. Just shoot a ton of air down the hole or? I know the compressor I am using now is at max 30 PSI (barely fills a bike tire!) and we have a large compressor that can do easily 100 PSI, should I try that or, just stick to what I am doing
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Old 07-23-2010, 09:14 PM   #19
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Just drill it. Why are you worrying about 140 degrees anyway?
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Old 07-24-2010, 07:27 AM   #20
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I like to run about 120 - 140 SFM and feed about .036" per flute in delrin, doesn't even give it a chance to melt! on a really deep drilled blind hole, sometimes I'll take a light peck to keep the chips outa the hole. never used coolant though.
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