Go Back   RCCrawler Forums > RCCrawler General Tech > Tools, and Procedures
Loading

Notices

Thread: Machinists Corner

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 06-27-2012, 09:25 PM   #241
Quarry Creeper
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Deus est mortuus, logica obtinet.
Posts: 451
Default Re: Machinists Corner

my buddy's dad is a contractor and fixes haas machines and he has said a lot of positive things about them, but he's not a machinist nor am i so i can't speak from experience.
ohh EPiC FAiL is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Old 07-01-2012, 05:06 PM   #242
Suck it up!
 
Duuuuuuuude's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Arkansas
Posts: 11,652
Default Re: Machinists Corner

I made me a new thing. Since I'm still very much an eyeballer and don't yet have an edge finder (it's on its way!), I use my calipers to find and mark lines and centers and whatnot. That works well, but hard to reference that point on the mill. I needed something to make them jive.

I dug through my aluminum bin and pulled out a short chunk of 3/8" rod. I put that in the collet, looked through the box of endmills, found a junk one, and put that in the vice on an angle. Rod met endmill, here is the result.



Now I can center over my lines.



Otherwise, I've been spending a whole lot of time practicing squaring up odd pieces of plastic and aluminum and in general getting used to running the machine...different sized endmills, feeds, speeds, etc etc. The guy that sold me the mill gave me a big tub full of scrap...aluminum, pvc, delrin, acrylic, some fiberglass composite stuff, and a couple other things I can't quite identify. A lot of small stuff, but still big enough to make things from.

Last edited by Duuuuuuuude; 07-01-2012 at 05:12 PM.
Duuuuuuuude is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-01-2012, 05:20 PM   #243
I wanna be Dave
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Sin City
Posts: 3,628
Default Re: Machinists Corner

I am by no means a machinist - but I have worked with a few and picked up a few things. One thing that is keeping me from using my mill more if squaring up the work piece or even the vice. Anyone have any tips or ticks?
I haven't dug around looking for any write ups on how to yet but figured you guys be the best to ask.
doublej is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-01-2012, 05:23 PM   #244
Suck it up!
 
Duuuuuuuude's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Arkansas
Posts: 11,652
Default Re: Machinists Corner

Watch those MIT videos. It walks you through everything and does in fact show you how to square up the table and vice and/or quill and the part you are working on.

Search for "free MIT education" if you don't know what I'm refering to.

Last edited by Duuuuuuuude; 07-01-2012 at 05:25 PM.
Duuuuuuuude is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-01-2012, 06:06 PM   #245
Rock Crawler
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: In the basement
Posts: 929
Default Re: Machinists Corner

Quote:
Originally Posted by doublej View Post
I am by no means a machinist - but I have worked with a few and picked up a few things. One thing that is keeping me from using my mill more if squaring up the work piece or even the vice. Anyone have any tips or ticks?
I haven't dug around looking for any write ups on how to yet but figured you guys be the best to ask.
Get an arm for an indicator and mount it in your spindle. then just move the table so the indicator skims the surface, tap your vice around until it is as square as you want it.

You probably don't need anything insanely precise, probably a .001" or so, and once you do it a few times you'll be able to line a part up in 30-40 seconds.

If you mean work centering and you don't have a center or edge finder this is a trick I use is to touch a drill/mill/center drill off to the side of the part using a piece of shim stock, or paper if I absolutely have to, then move over 1/2 the distance of the tool width. That should be zero.

Same goes for a round part, just touch off to the vice and move 1/2 the distance the opposite direction. For the part not touching the vice I lay a parallel up against it and proceed from there.
xjman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-01-2012, 06:11 PM   #246
Yashua
 
CREEPERBOB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Learn the parable of the fig tree
Posts: 3,661
Default Re: Machinists Corner

One thing I might add to all this great info XJ, is if your talking about squaring a vise, I found that if it has a swivel base it is best to get the base tightened down securely and then loosen the actual vise from the base , tighten one bolt fairly tight and indicate the fixed jaw. I found that with a swivel base if you try to squre with it loose, between it and the vise they can move seperatly and be a PITA to set.


Quote:
Originally Posted by xjman View Post
Get an arm for an indicator and mount it in your spindle. then just move the table so the indicator skims the surface, tap your vice around until it is as square as you want it.

You probably don't need anything insanely precise, probably a .001" or so, and once you do it a few times you'll be able to line a part up in 30-40 seconds.

If you mean work centering and you don't have a center or edge finder this is a trick I use is to touch a drill/mill/center drill off to the side of the part using a piece of shim stock, or paper if I absolutely have to, then move over 1/2 the distance of the tool width. That should be zero.

Same goes for a round part, just touch off to the vice and move 1/2 the distance the opposite direction. For the part not touching the vice I lay a parallel up against it and proceed from there.
CREEPERBOB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-01-2012, 06:17 PM   #247
Yashua
 
CREEPERBOB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Learn the parable of the fig tree
Posts: 3,661
Default Re: Machinists Corner

Your a genius .

And those MIT vid's are great, I was refered to them when I first got my machine too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Duuuuuuuude View Post
I made me a new thing. Since I'm still very much an eyeballer and don't yet have an edge finder (it's on its way!), I use my calipers to find and mark lines and centers and whatnot. That works well, but hard to reference that point on the mill. I needed something to make them jive.

I dug through my aluminum bin and pulled out a short chunk of 3/8" rod. I put that in the collet, looked through the box of endmills, found a junk one, and put that in the vice on an angle. Rod met endmill, here is the result.



Now I can center over my lines.



Otherwise, I've been spending a whole lot of time practicing squaring up odd pieces of plastic and aluminum and in general getting used to running the machine...different sized endmills, feeds, speeds, etc etc. The guy that sold me the mill gave me a big tub full of scrap...aluminum, pvc, delrin, acrylic, some fiberglass composite stuff, and a couple other things I can't quite identify. A lot of small stuff, but still big enough to make things from.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Duuuuuuuude View Post
Watch those MIT videos. It walks you through everything and does in fact show you how to square up the table and vice and/or quill and the part you are working on.

Search for "free MIT education" if you don't know what I'm refering to.
CREEPERBOB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-01-2012, 07:54 PM   #248
Suck it up!
 
Duuuuuuuude's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Arkansas
Posts: 11,652
Default Re: Machinists Corner

Quote:
Originally Posted by CREEPERBOB View Post
Your a hack .
Fixed it.
Duuuuuuuude is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-01-2012, 08:10 PM   #249
Quarry Creeper
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Arkie-Saw
Posts: 284
Default Re: Machinists Corner

Heres a good tip:

Buy good tooling! Its something special when you have good tools.

Most of the guys who will qualify themselves as hobby machinists will be OK with HSS endmills and such.

But if you can swing it, get yourself some Cobalt drill bits. 135 degree split point so they self center. Screw machine length so they are much more rigid. Does anyone really need 6"+ of flutes?

I hardly ever run a center drill on the CNC mill, CNC lathe or Bridgeport at work anymore. Its one of those things that after you have it you dont understand why you did work any other way!

I will say I envy yous guys with mills at home. I do this stuff all day but being able to be at the workbench in my shop and say I could use one of those...then walk across the shop and make one? Yeah Im envious. hopefully have something of my own soon.
mtdriver is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-01-2012, 08:27 PM   #250
Yashua
 
CREEPERBOB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Learn the parable of the fig tree
Posts: 3,661
Default Re: Machinists Corner

No really man, that was a good idea with the center finder. Now the end mill in the vise,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,


Quote:
Originally Posted by Duuuuuuuude View Post
Fixed it.
CREEPERBOB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-01-2012, 08:42 PM   #251
Suck it up!
 
Duuuuuuuude's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Arkansas
Posts: 11,652
Default Re: Machinists Corner

Quote:
Originally Posted by CREEPERBOB View Post
Now the end mill in the vise,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Yeah, I wasn't sure about that one either.
Duuuuuuuude is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-01-2012, 09:00 PM   #252
Rock Crawler
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: In the basement
Posts: 929
Default Re: Machinists Corner

Another thing to note about tooling, even if you buy the best in the world, it wont be worth a crap if you have your feeds and speeds jacked up.

Every day I go to work my job consists of rigging up something goofy to run. I run a lot of parts that are so thin you cant tighten them but hand tight, then have a .0005 hole size tolerance with a true position of .002 S. So rigging up something that just absolutely shouldn't be done to do something is absolutely how you are supposed to do it.
xjman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-01-2012, 09:07 PM   #253
Suck it up!
 
Duuuuuuuude's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Arkansas
Posts: 11,652
Default Re: Machinists Corner

Quote:
Originally Posted by xjman View Post
So rigging up something that just absolutely shouldn't be done to do something is absolutely how you are supposed to do it.
Anybody who does anything isn't worth a shit unless they've got some weird ass one-off tools in their box. Or at the very least, found a new way to use something common.

Being poor helps too. I love home made tools.
Duuuuuuuude is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-01-2012, 09:29 PM   #254
Quarry Creeper
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Splendora
Posts: 477
Default Re: Machinists Corner

I always use an indicator to find centerline, but the majority of my work is round its 4.75 in dia. and we don't use vices all our work that I do is in a 4th axis chuck, but the indicator works very well just use a mirror to see the indicator on the back side.
landon4 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-01-2012, 10:42 PM   #255
Rock Stacker
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Longview
Posts: 81
Default Re: Machinists Corner

Quote:
Originally Posted by landon4 View Post
I always use an indicator to find centerline, but the majority of my work is round its 4.75 in dia. and we don't use vices all our work that I do is in a 4th axis chuck, but the indicator works very well just use a mirror to see the indicator on the back side.
if you're doing production work, and perhaps someone else is footing the bill for equipment... invest in a coaxial indicator. No more mirror, just set the spindle running at about 100rpm, and jog around until there is no more movement indicated on the gage. Its much, much faster.
rlockwood is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-01-2012, 10:54 PM   #256
Rock Stacker
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Longview
Posts: 81
Default Re: Machinists Corner

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bad Attitude View Post
Has anyone in here had any dealings with HAS equipment?... mainly their lathes.
Haas machines traditionally made use of weldments as a base, while most everyone else uses a casting. Many manufacturers go to the extend of casting the base, leaving it alone for a few years to stress relieve, then grinding the ways. Haas doesnt do that. They dont have as much material for a base, so they ultimately arent as rigid. The weldments also lend themselves to warpage over time, which can lead to error in the 3D workspace that is difficult to get rid of. If your game is ultra-critical work, expect a reduced lifespan, as it simply wont last as long.

That said, they still make perfectly good machines. Accuracy will be quite good for the first few years. Also, their lathes are priced very competitively. This is especially true when you get into their larger ones (dual spindle, live turning + y-axis, etc.) When I finally buy a mill-turn machine, it will most likely be a haas.

Also, your local community college likely trains its "machinists" on a haas, so its easier to find someone to crash it for you

-- xjman - perhaps these parts need clamped in a different direction. Most thin work does well to be screwed to a large, flat plate.
rlockwood is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-01-2012, 11:04 PM   #257
Rock Crawler
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: In the basement
Posts: 929
Default Re: Machinists Corner

Quote:
Originally Posted by rlockwood View Post
Haas machines traditionally made use of weldments as a base, while most everyone else uses a casting. Many manufacturers go to the extend of casting the base, leaving it alone for a few years to stress relieve, then grinding the ways. Haas doesnt do that. They dont have as much material for a base, so they ultimately arent as rigid. The weldments also lend themselves to warpage over time, which can lead to error in the 3D workspace that is difficult to get rid of. If your game is ultra-critical work, expect a reduced lifespan, as it simply wont last as long.

That said, they still make perfectly good machines. Accuracy will be quite good for the first few years. Also, their lathes are priced very competitively. This is especially true when you get into their larger ones (dual spindle, live turning + y-axis, etc.) When I finally buy a mill-turn machine, it will most likely be a haas.

Also, your local community college likely trains its "machinists" on a haas, so its easier to find someone to crash it for you

-- xjman - perhaps these parts need clamped in a different direction. Most thin work does well to be screwed to a large, flat plate.
What I drill basically is a long tube with flanges on either end that mate to other parts. The parts are so long there is absolutely no rigidity if you mount the flange to a tombstone or angle plate. The part would flop around like a wet noodle. Its tedious especially on a large horizontal mill, but not impossible.

The only time it really causes issues for us is when its a titanium or stainless steel part. I don't know what it is about the titanium its far softer than most of what I cut, but man its a pain to hold in place.


To the guy who runs the HAAS, I like the machines I have had the pleasure of working on(VF5 and VF. However I'll stick with my Mori horizontal.
xjman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-02-2012, 09:05 AM   #258
Rock Stacker
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Longview
Posts: 81
Default Re: Machinists Corner

Quote:
Originally Posted by xjman View Post
What I drill basically is a long tube with flanges on either end that mate to other parts. The parts are so long there is absolutely no rigidity if you mount the flange to a tombstone or angle plate. The part would flop around like a wet noodle. Its tedious especially on a large horizontal mill, but not impossible.

The only time it really causes issues for us is when its a titanium or stainless steel part. I don't know what it is about the titanium its far softer than most of what I cut, but man its a pain to hold in place.


To the guy who runs the HAAS, I like the machines I have had the pleasure of working on(VF5 and VF. However I'll stick with my Mori horizontal.
Fellow mori-seiki operator as well, but we have the duravertical/duracenters.. and I concur
rlockwood is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-02-2012, 10:05 AM   #259
No idea what I'm doing
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Underground, CO
Posts: 4,529
Default Re: Machinists Corner

Quote:
Originally Posted by xjman View Post

If you mean work centering and you don't have a center or edge finder this is a trick I use is to touch a drill/mill/center drill off to the side of the part using a piece of shim stock, or paper if I absolutely have to, then move over 1/2 the distance of the tool width. That should be zero.
I do this often as well. If I'm making a part from scratch though, I usually cut my zeros. I'll start with a piece of stock a bit bigger than what I need to make, and take a light pass on whatever edge I want to be zero. I'll then move over half the diameter and maybe about .010" more. Repeat for the other axis, and now my zeros are inside the piece of stock by about .010". Then I run the part, and that .010" is cut along with everything else.
C*H*U*D is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-02-2012, 11:05 AM   #260
Rock Crawler
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: In the basement
Posts: 929
Default Re: Machinists Corner

Quote:
Originally Posted by C*H*U*D View Post
I do this often as well. If I'm making a part from scratch though, I usually cut my zeros. I'll start with a piece of stock a bit bigger than what I need to make, and take a light pass on whatever edge I want to be zero. I'll then move over half the diameter and maybe about .010" more. Repeat for the other axis, and now my zeros are inside the piece of stock by about .010". Then I run the part, and that .010" is cut along with everything else.
Yeah that works really well for centering if you are cutting from a completely raw part, but if you buy something already turned to the diameter you are looking for not so much.

I need to buy a decent mill for personal use. I don't think my company would be ok with me spending 15 or 20 hours on a three quarter million dollar machine programming a new set of beadlocks and axle housings.
xjman is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply



Machinists Corner - Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
you Machinists can probly appreciate this... STANG KILLA SS Tools, and Procedures 41 05-14-2011 12:59 AM
Machinists..... mrpink Chit Chat 1 08-30-2010 08:31 PM
Question for the machinists out there... scally6 Chit Chat 12 12-03-2009 08:25 PM
Machinists...opinions? JasonInAugusta Tools, and Procedures 5 07-23-2007 11:00 PM
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 06:26 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO ©2011, Crawlability, Inc.
Copyright 2004-2014 RCCrawler.com