Machinists Corner

[CREEPERBOB]

I found out something this mornin' that I had no idea could happen.
I was arc welding 2 braces on my mill table / stand and when I lifted my helmet up, "SHIT" a fire was shooting 4 feet up the wall behind the table.
I had no idea that Titanium shavings would catch fire , and man do they burn, I grabed the trusty fire extingusher and blasted it and got it out, but what a frickin' mess that powder made EVERYWHERE .
I keep the shavings cleaned up pretty good usually but guess it don't take much to ignite.

[JeepinDoug]

You're lucky you extinguished it, titanium is tough to put out when it's raging.
Clean every bit of the extinguisher dust and oil everything.
The extinguisher dust will rust everything.

[Charlie-III]

Originally Posted by JeepinDoug

You're lucky you extinguished it, titanium is tough to put out when it's raging.
Clean every bit of the extinguisher dust and oil everything.
The extinguisher dust will rust everything.

+1..... Dry chemical extinguishers are very corrosive, especially when in the presence of water. This is part of why they suck on circuit boards.

Metal fires are about the worst since they can burn under water. There are special "metal fire" extinguishers available. Other types of extinguishers can actually be BAD on metal fires!

Some quick reading.... https://www4.uwm.edu/usa/safety/chem...iblemetals.cfm

[BigSki]

Originally Posted by CREEPERBOB

I found out something this mornin' that I had no idea could happen.
I was arc welding 2 braces on my mill table / stand and when I lifted my helmet up, "SHIT" a fire was shooting 4 feet up the wall behind the table.
I had no idea that Titanium shavings would catch fire , and man do they burn, I grabed the trusty fire extingusher and blasted it and got it out, but what a frickin' mess that powder made EVERYWHERE .
I keep the shavings cleaned up pretty good usually but guess it don't take much to ignite.

so it goes off sort of like a magnesium fire? That's some pretty scary -ish to have burning inside of your wall. Glad to hear that you were able to put it out. Maybe it's time to line the garage walls with cement board.

[CREEPERBOB]

Yeah, after about 2 hours of cleaning the crap up I used a quart of oil wiping down and oiling the machine.

Originally Posted by JeepinDoug

You're lucky you extinguished it, titanium is tough to put out when it's raging.
Clean every bit of the extinguisher dust and oil everything.
The extinguisher dust will rust everything.

Originally Posted by Charlie-III

+1..... Dry chemical extinguishers are very corrosive, especially when in the presence of water. This is part of why they suck on circuit boards.

Metal fires are about the worst since they can burn under water. There are special "metal fire" extinguishers available. Other types of extinguishers can actually be BAD on metal fires!

Some quick reading.... https://www4.uwm.edu/usa/safety/chem...iblemetals.cfm

Yeah, it was white fire , it took all of the 8lb extinguisher to get it out too. I don't usually leave much build up before I clean it up. I should have swept it up before starting to weld . I'm sure glad the extingusher was right beside the machine. I'll be shopping for a differant extinguisher now.

Originally Posted by BigSki

so it goes off sort of like a magnesium fire? That's some pretty scary -ish to have burning inside of your wall. Glad to hear that you were able to put it out. Maybe it's time to line the garage walls with cement board.

[trwelds]

Not saying you didn't know it was going to happen but a general rule taught around here is that a single spark that would be hot enough to light a fuel source can travel up to 30 feet. As a welder I've made it a good habit to check that area before I strike an arc. Countless times my sparks have found leaks in my cutting torch hoses for me. lol

[THE411]

Or use a TIG welder, so much cleaner.

[jackedman]

Trwelds that is a awesome rule i completely agree.
The411 makes a good point too about the tig welding.
Both ways i like to weld so it doesnt.really matter to me

[Charlie-III]

OK, I've looked around and can't really find a good answer, so.....

Is "MIG" the commonly called "wire feed" and "TIG" like gas welding but with an arc for the heat instead of burning gas?

Can you weld with either one without using a shielding gas? I know there are some coated wire/electrodes, just not sure. I'm looking to weld mild steel for the most part, some sheet metal, some ~3/16" steel rod/tubing.

[WooPigSooie]

Local retailer is having haas demo day. It is making me want things lol.

[foratm]

Originally Posted by WooPigSooie

Local retailer is having haas demo day. It is making me want things lol.

Then don't go to chicago for the machining convention or what ever it's called. Anything a machinist could ever need, imagine, and wish for is there.

Sent from my MB855 using Xparent Blue Tapatalk 2

[WooPigSooie]

Yeah I want to go to that in the future.

[Crawling Calvin]

Originally Posted by foratm

Then don't go to chicago for the machining convention or what ever it's called. Anything a machinist could ever need, imagine, and wish for is there.

Sent from my MB855 using Xparent Blue Tapatalk 2

You mean IMTS, it passed. I went to the Westec show in Los Angeles and that went down on the major "oh boy now I want all that I see list"

Would anyone be interested in a simple photo log of how to make a drill jig for say making bolt hole patterns... it sounds crude and old fashioned but it works great if done right

[tarmo120]

I would be interested. As at home I only have a drillpress and not much more.

[CREEPERBOB]

To the best I can remember Tig requires gas for all types of useage, but with MIG you have the option of using a sheilding gas for uncoated wire or useing what is called "flux core " wire which has a coating similar to the flux on stick welding rod.
Mig can be used on steel as well as aluminum, brass etc. with the proper wire and sheilding gas just as Tig.

Originally Posted by Charlie-III

OK, I've looked around and can't really find a good answer, so.....

Is "MIG" the commonly called "wire feed" and "TIG" like gas welding but with an arc for the heat instead of burning gas?

Can you weld with either one without using a shielding gas? I know there are some coated wire/electrodes, just not sure. I'm looking to weld mild steel for the most part, some sheet metal, some ~3/16" steel rod/tubing.

[Charlie-III]

Originally Posted by CREEPERBOB

To the best I can remember Tig requires gas for all types of useage, but with MIG you have the option of using a sheilding gas for uncoated wire or useing what is called "flux core " wire which has a coating similar to the flux on stick welding rod.
Mig can be used on steel as well as aluminum, brass etc. with the proper wire and sheilding gas just as Tig.

CB....I really appreciate you replying, thanks.

I don't really feel it answers my question....but, maybe it does & I'm a bit dense. (my kids & possibly wife will agree with you.........hopefully NOT!)


I have done quite a bit of gas (Oxy/Acet) welding in the past. I also have quite a few hours doing "stick welding".

Mig & Tig I have little info on. This is why I'm asking.

Anyone else want to offer up some info??

[tarmo120]

Mig welder is where the machine feeds the wire. Tig is where you activate the arc and feed the wire by hand.
I'm not sure either can be used without gas but try it when you can.
Mig welds really bad without gas(but maybe i just had the uncoated wire).
For welding in general I think mig is easier but hey, that's just me. Mig is also cheaper to buy.

[bigstu]

Charlie-III
For MIG welding, you can use a flux core wire (Doesn't require a shielding gas) but the welds aren't as nice.
For and kind of TIG welding, you will need a shielding gas. The tungsten electrode will get almost white hot and the impurities in the air we breathe will destroy the tungsten.

Here is some good info..
TIG
Miller TIG Welding Techniques - YouTube
MIG
MIG Welding Basics for Farm and Automotive Repairs - YouTube
MIG welding on Aluminum
Miller Millermatic MIG Welders - Aluminum Welding - YouTube

[trwelds]

Originally Posted by Charlie-III

OK, I've looked around and can't really find a good answer, so.....

Is "MIG" the commonly called "wire feed" and "TIG" like gas welding but with an arc for the heat instead of burning gas?

Can you weld with either one without using a shielding gas? I know there are some coated wire/electrodes, just not sure. I'm looking to weld mild steel for the most part, some sheet metal, some ~3/16" steel rod/tubing.

MIG is what is commonly called wire feed. MIG stands for Metal Inert Gas. This is a old term and is more correctly called GMAW (gas metal arc welding) and since its Gas metal it uses a shielding gas with solid bare wire. Wire feed refers more to the type of welding machine. A wire feeder can be also used to weld with FCAW (Flux Cored Arc Welding) Some Flux cored wire does not require shielding gas and is known as self shielding wire. Usually gives poor results compared to using a shielding gas for Dual Shield.

Shielding gas is intended to shield the weld puddle while its molten. It also can affect penetration, wetting of the weld edges and temp of the weld.

TIG is also a old term that stood for Tungsten Inert Gas. Its now known as GTAW or Gas Tungsten Arc Welding. To the best of my knowledge and experience no one has come up with a system that doesn't use Gas. Im pretty sure its impossible because of the tungsten itself. Usually if you forget to turn the gas on you will contaminate the tungsten. (the material your welding jumps up to the tungsten and sticks to it. Also with no gas the tungsten will melt.

TIG welding is much like Oxy fuel welding or gas welding but also different. Like gas welding the use of filler metal is not always required. Also you can remelt the weld after to change the way it looks. Its different from gas welding and any other type of welding because of the ability to weld really thin material because of the small Heat affected Zone. With a good machine you can melt the metal no wider than 1mm. This keeps the input heat of the work lower which is a big plus for welding exotic metals such as stainless steel and titanium. Too much heat on some metals like those will ruin them and have to be cut out.

Also with TIG welding you can control your fine current with the use of a foot pedal but that is not always required. On my portable welding truck I have to set the amperage and use manual manipulation to affect the heat.

Also if you do buy a TIG machine and are concerned about doing bigger welding projects down the road. All TIG machines can also weld "stick" electrodes or SMAW (shielded Metal Arc Welding)

sorry for the wall of text but hope it clears things up.

TLR - Mig is wire feed and doesn't always need gas
TIG always needs gas.

[rlockwood]

Originally Posted by Charlie-III

CB....I really appreciate you replying, thanks.

I don't really feel it answers my question....but, maybe it does & I'm a bit dense. (my kids & possibly wife will agree with you.........hopefully NOT!)


I have done quite a bit of gas (Oxy/Acet) welding in the past. I also have quite a few hours doing "stick welding".

Mig & Tig I have little info on. This is why I'm asking.

Anyone else want to offer up some info??

In both MIG and TIG the gas is simply a shielding gas, that is, it shields the area from air and has the same function as Flux. Shielding gases are all inert, that is, by definition they don't react (and don't burn). Both processes utilize an electrode arc that causes the metal to melt.

MIG is often referred to as "Wire Feed", as its exactly that. Wire is fed through the gun at a controlled rate and is added to the puddle automatically. The wire repeatedly strikes an arc with the weld material, and is melted and added to the puddle.

TIG actually functions very similar to oxy/acet welding, in that you have a torch and a filler rod. The main differences being the addition of a shielding gas, and a high voltage torch. A TIG torch is also voltage controlled by the user during the weld, and offers the best control over the puddle and filler quantity. A skilled TIG welder can produce the highest quality of welds.