pointers for adding a water separator to the compressor?

[BigSki]

I went to adjust the line pressure on the regulator, one little twist of the knob and the entire freekin' thing literally blew apart in my hands. Fortunately, no shrapnel wounds. The cast housing just broke into tiny pieces. I goes to the Ho Depot to get a new part and I see a larger version of the one that blew up on me, so I grab that, then I noticed a water separator on the shelf so I get one of those as well. I figure that it could help keep the blast cabinet grit from clumping up on me.

On to my question- are there any guide lines for a distance from the tank outlet or regulator that this needs to be mounted? I'm looking at using it in line for a short time, until I build a mounting board of sorts and just use a flex hose from the tank to the separator.

[M1tch]

mount the separator as far as you can from the compressor. the reason is the air will cool and you will get more condensate out. the closer to the tool the better.

[Rockridge]

I have a water seperator on a hard line about 4" from the reg, and than i also run a disposible right on the tools that need the extra protection

[Charlie-III]

While I sorta agree with the "mount as far from the comp as possible" I will say due to the flow rate, it makes little difference.

A mechanical separator helps with big stuff, a desiccant dryer tends to finish the water issue off.

I used to work with company wide compressed air.
1-I had a air to air cooler on the compressor.
2-I had a water to air precooler
3-I had a mechanical separator to drop out large water droplets
4-I had a refrigerated dryer to drop even more water

By the time the air got to equipment, it had a dew-point of mid 30's*F.

For home use, I suggest to get air from outside the room to limit water.

[BigSki]

Originally Posted by M1tch

mount the separator as far as you can from the compressor. the reason is the air will cool and you will get more condensate out. the closer to the tool the better.

Originally Posted by Rockridge

I have a water seperator on a hard line about 4" from the reg, and than i also run a disposible right on the tools that need the extra protection

Once I plumb the basement for hard lines, I will definitely do this.

Originally Posted by Charlie-III

While I sorta agree with the "mount as far from the comp as possible" I will say due to the flow rate, it makes little difference.

A mechanical separator helps with big stuff, a desiccant dryer tends to finish the water issue off.

I used to work with company wide compressed air.
1-I had a air to air cooler on the compressor.
2-I had a water to air precooler
3-I had a mechanical separator to drop out large water droplets
4-I had a refrigerated dryer to drop even more water

By the time the air got to equipment, it had a dew-point of mid 30's*F.

For home use, I suggest to get air from outside the room to limit water.

umm, yeah. This is just a small 3HP 60 gallon compressor, no need for that level of dry air, but it's a big eye opener (at least for me) to what is involved with providing dry air in an industrial environment.

[Charlie-III]

Originally Posted by BigSki

Ummm, yeah. This is just a small 3HP 60 gallon compressor, no need for that level of dry air, but it's a big eye opener (at least for me) to what is involved with providing dry air in an industrial environment.

I sorta figured, but I did suggest a separator and then small desiccant dryer to finish it off.
Also make it easy to drain from the bottom of the tank. This does 2 things:
1-Helps prevent rust inside the tank
2-Helps reduce moisture pick-up in the compressed air.

Compressing a gas raises it's temperature, this allows it to carry more water. When you cool the air (or greatly drops it's pressure) the "excess" water drops out.

So, the separator removes larger water and any oil that may come from the compressor itself.
The desiccant dryer removes most of the final water.

I would look at WWGraingers, they carry just what you need.

Link... Grainger Industrial Supply - MRO Supplies, MRO Equipment, Tools & Solutions
Filters....
SPEEDAIRE Filter, Air Line, 1/4 In - General Purpose Filter - 4ZL08|4ZL08 - Grainger Industrial Supply
or
SPEEDAIRE Filter, Air Line, 1/4 In - General Purpose Filter - 4ZL27|4ZL27 - Grainger Industrial Supply

Dryer.... SPEEDAIRE Dryer, Air Filter, Pk2 - Desiccant Dryers - 6ZC63|6ZC63 - Grainger Industrial Supply

Just some suggestions. The flow rates are about what you want and they have the smaller pipe sizes.

[BigSki]

Originally Posted by Charlie-III

I sorta figured, but I did suggest a separator and then small desiccant dryer to finish it off.
Also make it easy to drain from the bottom of the tank. This does 2 things:
1-Helps prevent rust inside the tank
2-Helps reduce moisture pick-up in the compressed air.

Compressing a gas raises it's temperature, this allows it to carry more water. When you cool the air (or greatly drops it's pressure) the "excess" water drops out.

So, the separator removes larger water and any oil that may come from the compressor itself.
The desiccant dryer removes most of the final water.

I would look at WWGraingers, they carry just what you need.

Link... Grainger Industrial Supply - MRO Supplies, MRO Equipment, Tools & Solutions
Filters....
SPEEDAIRE Filter, Air Line, 1/4 In - General Purpose Filter - 4ZL08|4ZL08 - Grainger Industrial Supply
or
SPEEDAIRE Filter, Air Line, 1/4 In - General Purpose Filter - 4ZL27|4ZL27 - Grainger Industrial Supply

Dryer.... SPEEDAIRE Dryer, Air Filter, Pk2 - Desiccant Dryers - 6ZC63|6ZC63 - Grainger Industrial Supply

Just some suggestions. The flow rates are about what you want and they have the smaller pipe sizes.

I definitely appreciate the info, it's great to have advise from someone who has the industrial experience.

I'm going to weld on a bracket on the motor mount on the tank to support this setup. I had everything set up in line so that I could get air to run the impact gun to put the wheels back on my truck, but everything was 'wobbly' so I wouldn't use it like this for very long, I can see a nipple snapping off.

[Charlie-III]

No problem, hope it helps.

The filters I linked are 1/4" pipe, likely what you will use. If you go with different filters, the price can jump rather fast.
You could also go to 3/8", the pipes (if you pipe your whole shop) becomes another "tank" so the bigger the better.
Just have a little pitch in them in the direction of airflow with a drain at the end. This allows you to drain water out that collects in the pipe.

I would use a rubber hose from the compressor to the piping, this fixes vibration issues.

[BigSki]

I didn't think about it until today, but would you have the separator before or after the regulator? Right now I have it before the regulator.

[Charlie-III]

Originally Posted by BigSki

I didn't think about it until today, but would you have the separator before or after the regulator? Right now I have it before the regulator.

I would suggest the separator BEFORE the regulator. This way, you keep the worst of the airline crap out of the "regulating orifices".....[really sounds wrong....may just be my mind is in the gutter.....]...... you did OK.

[BigSki]

Originally Posted by Charlie-III

I would suggest the separator BEFORE the regulator. This way, you keep the worst of the airline crap out of the "regulating orifices".....[really sounds wrong....may just be my mind is in the gutter.....]...... you did OK.

Thanks. That was my way of thinking it out, sometimes my brain still works.

It's amazing how much water gets into the trap, I was using the blast cabinet yesterday, so the compressor is running almost non stop. When I finished blasting, I checked the separator, it was almost completely filled.

It made me glad that I religiously oil the air tools before every use.

[Charlie-III]

Yea, sounds about right.

On high humidity days, it's amazing on the amount of water you can get in the airlines.

I've designed compressed air systems for a couple of 40K sq' buildings, I tend towards overkill since in the long run, it's a LOT cheaper to do.

Cool is watching a so-so system through a filter bowl when a large cylinder fires off. You can see the water separate out due to the pressure drop (you see fog in the bowl), then disappear when the pressure builds back up.

Some simple planning (like slope in the hard lines) can fix a lot of issues before they start.

As to the oiling, if the air is clean & dry, oiling is a minor issue.
If the air is wet, the oil makes mayonnaise, that sucks for tool life & reliability.

[Charlie-III]

Similar thread with some other filter options...... compressed air dryer

[JohnRobHolmes]

Thanks for all the info! We are going to install a shop wide pressure line and I will make sure I put a dryer in the system where I can get to it easily. I'm mostly interested in moving the compressor out of the main shop area so it isn't super loud when the CNC or air tools are running, since the storefront is in the same room.

[Charlie-III]

Sooo......I did some searching on Google (Compressed air design) and want to add to this thread....

http://www.kaeser.ca/Images/USGUIDE3...cm67-12601.pdf

Start from ~page 40... http://oee.nrcan.gc.ca/sites/oee.nrc...ir-ref-eng.pdf

From a "Shop forum", nice drawing plus discussion of black pipe vs. copper vs. PVC. Running pipe for compressed air...

Compressed Air Basics - webBikeWorld

Yes, I know some is really industrial related, but you can scale back for a home shop build. The basic considerations are what is important.

I would stay away from PVC, it ages over time and can create hazards.

Even though it costs more, go for a larger pipe than you think you need. It will be cheaper in the long run if you grow your usage. Think along the lines of, "Yes you can buy a 2 channel radio for your crawler, but you may want to add stuff and then you need a different radio. Buy a 3 channel radio at a minimum."

[JohnRobHolmes]

I would agree with oversizing the lines, based on my experience routing a RO fresh water line around my house. I used to have many fish tanks around the house with auto top off , a few drinking fountains, and watering hoses for house plants. Since the RO filter used 1/4" line I went with it, but soon learned that I had narrow urethra syndrome at the far ends of the house. Installing extra reservoirs at the far ends aided in pressure and flow rate, and it was much more expensive than just running fatter lines in the first place. Shoulda made a backbone of 3/8 or 1/2" lines in the first place!

[Charlie-III]

I would look to do a loop around the shop with 1/2" lines at a minimum (assuming a shop of ~20' x 20'). The price delta is not much more than 3/8" lines.

I would also do "T's" pointing up for any outlet I want to put in, this keeps the water that condenses inside the pipe. Then a couple of 90's to point the outlet down. Street-ells save a bit on parts.

Put some slope in the pipe (some say 1"/100', I would do ~3-4 times that slope) with a drain at the low point.

A couple ball valves so you can shut down part of the loop.

A couple of unions so you can break things apart fairly easily.

Make sure you use thread goop, I think it's Permatex #2 which is the non-hardening. Leaks can suck up a lot of CFM.

"If you're going to do it, why not over-kill it??" Maybe that's part of why I like LosiKid!


Hope these threads help out a bit.