Chassis building questions

[JDIRCC]

Ive been wanting to get into building custom chassis for 1.9 set ups and 2.2 setups for some time now and have been lurking looking at designs and procedure. My biggest un answered ?'s are:

What do you builders prefer and why? welding, brazing, tig?
whats the best material to use for tubing for a tuff chassis built by a "beginner" builder.
What are your preferred methods of bending tube?

I want to add that i am very familiar with welding from being a millwright for awhile. I just have never attempted anything this small.

so any info will help and the more detailed answers are preferred. Thanks in advance

[DrewHammer]

I personally prefer brazing as it's a lot cleaner and easier to clean up, most of the joints just need bead blasting for cleanup when you're done, no major grinding or filing. Tig welding is just fine as well if you have the patience for that. I have a tig and chose not to weld any of mine personally in case I want to make changes later. Mig is fine but you need small wire to control the weld size better at the amperages you'll MIG this stuff at. Whatever you do, keep the 6011's and 7018's far away.

For cages with less tubing I use solid 3/16, however if it's a full tuber I'll go with hydraulic tubing. I have a local vendor I purchase from that does hydraulic supply and they sell uncoated -3 AN/JIC (3/16 diameter) tubing cheap. This keeps you from having to remove the galvanizing from brake lines. All cages I've built use a solid main roll hoop for strength since it takes the brunt of the force and all of the other tubes are based off of it.

I have a large selection of benders such as brake line pliers, brake line mandrel benders and a harbor freight roll bender for doing large radii. If I'm using solid rod I'll use a selection of sockets to get different radii depending on the size of the truck. Spring benders work well for brake line as well to keep you from kinking the tubing.

[JDIRCC]

so whats brazing like? I've actually never tried. a Plumber i know said, to him, it was a cross between tig because of the hand evolvement and soldering. I've heard that 3/16 tube and a 3/16 solid is a good combo for extra strength where needed and light weight where not. have any pics of your chassis or tube work?

[DrewHammer]

Brazing is really just high temperature soldering. Try to get the smallest brazing rod you can get your hands on, really even 1/8" is probably too big but I make it work. I'm actually trying to find some smaller stuff right now. I don't worry about flux coated rods personally as I have a can of flux I keep nearby. I'll preheat my joint, sprinkle on flux, then heat to the point the steel is red, then I'll rest the brazing rod on the join until it starts flowing.

With brazing, if you get the joints tight you can use very little brazing rod for a nice clean joint. If you need some extra strength you can add a little more for a filleted joint.


And a few examples. Note - Neither of these cages have been to blasting so there's still flux on it and some excess brass that'll come off as well.

[Crawling Calvin]

If you don't have a bead blaster for removing the junk from rods you can also use fine grit sand-paper or a non-woven abrasive pad (similar to kitchen scotchbrite pads only they have a built in abrasive like aluminum oxide). That and wiping areas to be welded, soldered, glued... with a solvent like denatured alcohol can really help improve the bonds since most metals outsides have a tiny bit of oil impregnated in them from the extruding process and/or from cutting it and that can really affect how stuff bonds

[JDIRCC]

ok understood. So whats your prefrence on brazing setups? quick and easy setup from home depot or something nicer. And also whats your pref. on silver solder and flux? And yeah no 6011's or 7018's for this lol. i was thinking .025 wire on my lincoln but figured that wasn't small enough either. But i Think I'm gonna go with the brazing idea. In your opinion is it easier with rods or soldering wire? I've seen videos of both and was wondering?

[CrawlSD]

Great thread. I will be watching this one.

[GiJoe]

I prefer to braze as well.
The set-up I use is a Turbo-Torch with an A-5 tip (your plumber friend will be familiar with this!).

A turbo torch uses an acetylene "B-Tank" for fuel and burns hotter than MAPP.

I picked up a whole set-up with B-Tank on Craigslist for $50.00

I also use the flux coated rod for simplicity


3/16", 1/4" or 6mm uncoated brake-line has been my material to date. It will bend slightly in hard falls, but I prefer the look of "Realistic Damage" in all of my scalers!

[JDIRCC]

Originally Posted by GiJoe

I prefer to braze as well.
The set-up I use is a Turbo-Torch with an A-5 tip (your plumber friend will be familiar with this!).

A turbo torch uses an acetylene "B-Tank" for fuel and burns hotter than MAPP.

I picked up a whole set-up with B-Tank on Craigslist for $50.00

I also use the flux coated rod for simplicity


3/16", 1/4" or 6mm uncoated brake-line has been my material to date. It will bend slightly in hard falls, but I prefer the look of "Realistic Damage" in all of my scalers!

And i understand that completely. Is the rod hard to work slash manipulate. I see how with flux the wire fillets the whoie joint that was coated with flux. Will the rod do the same? Or does the rod take a more skilled brazer?

[DrewHammer]

Originally Posted by JDIRCC

And i understand that completely. Is the rod hard to work slash manipulate. I see how with flux the wire fillets the whoie joint that was coated with flux. Will the rod do the same? Or does the rod take a more skilled brazer?

It's the same with tubing and solid as far as the joint fillets are concerned.

I personally have used the mapp/oxy setup from HD and it blows, the regulators are junk. I though it would be easier to control than a full size oxy/acetylene rig that I use now with a Victor torch and 000 tip. If you're a millwright you might already have that around.

[JDIRCC]

And I think I do. Ill have to check and see what all tips I have and no I have a shorter torch. I know the one I have now is a longer victor I think. Doing it with Oxy/acetylene what am I lookin for heat wise. Colder on the tip or almost cutting flame?

[DrewHammer]

Originally Posted by JDIRCC

And I think I do. Ill have to check and see what all tips I have and no I have a shorter torch. I know the one I have now is a longer victor I think. Doing it with Oxy/acetylene what am I lookin for heat wise. Colder on the tip or almost cutting flame?

Neutral flame, you don't want it to oxidize.

[JDIRCC]

Alrighty. That may be my project today. Go locate some brazing rods and some 3/16 tubing and just make a few joints.Then on to figuring out bending.

[Fumbles]

I've got a Mig welder and I'm still learning on it but I just tried brazing for the first time tonight and LOVED IT ! Get a good tight joint, pre heat it, apply some flux then heat until red... the dab the rod into the joint and move it around the joint just like if you are soldering a joint in plumbing.
I'm using the Radnor Safety-Silv 45 kit that has the goldish colored wire and the flux in the small white container.


My first brazed joint. Easy peezy !

[JDIRCC]

Originally Posted by Fumbles

I've got a Mig welder and I'm still learning on it but I just tried brazing for the first time tonight and LOVED IT ! Get a good tight joint, pre heat it, apply some flux then heat until red... the dab the rod into the joint and move it around the joint just like if you are soldering a joint in plumbing.
I'm using the Radnor Safety-Silv 45 kit that has the goldish colored wire and the flux in the small white container.


My first brazed joint. Easy peezy !

Looks good and clean. What style torch setup are you using?

[JDIRCC]

Originally Posted by DrewHammer

I have a large selection of benders such as brake line pliers, brake line mandrel benders and a harbor freight roll bender for doing large radii. If I'm using solid rod I'll use a selection of sockets to get different radii depending on the size of the truck. Spring benders work well for brake line as well to keep you from kinking the tubing.

Could you maybe send a link or some brand names of a good mandrel. Maybe a couple pics as well. All the mandrels i have found are for larger tube.

[Fumbles]

Used the blue propane gas torch. I figured I'd try to keep it simple instead of going MAPP gas so I tried the Propane and it worked great.

[CODYBOY]

This was all done with Safety Silv 56 and a B tank torch.

.

[DrewHammer]

Originally Posted by JDIRCC

Could you maybe send a link or some brand names of a good mandrel. Maybe a couple pics as well. All the mandrels i have found are for larger tube.

Depending on the bend, I use one of the following.

Amazon.com: Lisle 44000 Tubing Bender: Automotive
Ring Roller - Save on this Gear Driven Ring Roller
Eastwood 12435 Eastwood Triple Head 180 Degree Tubing Bender - Free Shipping on All Orders @ JEGS

[JDIRCC]

awesome i may order a couple different benders this friday and pick up a propane set and the safety silv 56. Still not sure what tubing i want try though, I think i would prefer hydraulic tubing but I'm not sure if i still have a supplier. Will the 3/16 brake line hold up as well?