RCCrawler Forums

WRMorrison · 04-24-2005, 05:15 PM

I've got a question for the new mod

, or anyone else for that matter.

How do you cut external splines? I've been wondering if there's a tool similar to a knurling tool that I can use on a lathe. I've searched the 'net, but only came up with specialized equipment for this purpose.

Any idears?

BENDER · 04-24-2005, 05:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WRMorrison

I've got a question for the new mod

, or anyone else for that matter.

How do you cut external splines? I've been wondering if there's a tool similar to a knurling tool that I can use on a lathe. I've searched the 'net, but only came up with specialized equipment for this purpose.

Any idears?

The only cutting of splines I've done is with an indexer on a mill. I'm sure they can be formed too, but I really don't have any experience with it.

Ace · 04-24-2005, 07:26 PM

I'd say Clod spines are rolled because they are bigger than the shaft.

Must be done hot or before heat treat cause Clod shafts are pretty hard.

I had thoughts of splining some axles when I widened my clod axles but when I realized the splines are bigger than the shaft I wound up pinning the new gear hex's on.

I've been toying with making a clod broach to female spine wheel adapters.

BENDER · 04-24-2005, 07:32 PM

I split this into it's own thread.

RCALLOYS · 04-24-2005, 08:29 PM

Internal splines are obviously a snap if you have the right tools. As you can see from the picture.........we have the means to do internal spline work. We have tools for the correct spline on TXT shafts. External, as someone else stated they can be rolled but before any heat treat process. Can also be machined with an indexer as Bender stated. With an indexer, I'd guess it would be like making a gear. Dunno but we sure got a TON of people asking about external splines when we released the TXT spool. :-)

WRMorrison · 04-24-2005, 08:31 PM

The reason I ask is because of this idea stuck in my head

, I'm sure that most know the feeling. I want to make a kit that can convert the clod axle to use cvd's. That way, it could be "locked out" to improve ground clearance a bit, and at the same time, use a maxx-type knuckle to improve turning radius. I'm sure I'm not the only one to think of this, but I haven't seen anyone actually make it yet.

BENDER · 04-24-2005, 08:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WRMorrison

The reason I ask is because of this idea stuck in my head

, I'm sure that most know the feeling. I want to make a kit that can convert the clod axle to use cvd's. That way, it could be "locked out" to improve ground clearance a bit, and at the same time, use a maxx-type knuckle to improve turning radius. I'm sure I'm not the only one to think of this, but I haven't seen anyone actually make it yet.

I thought about this, I think it would be sick, it would fix the weak tube problem on Clods too!!

BultacoJim · 04-24-2005, 09:11 PM

Here’s a site explaining Spline Rolling: http://www.colonialtool.com/spline.htm

Like folks said before, they are either cold formed (rolled) or set up in an indexer on a mill and milled with a form cutter. But, I had an old German machinist (now I’m the old fart

) show me how to do it on a lathe long ago. It is the same way you cut keyways in gears without using a broach.

You need to put an indexer on the lathe spindle so that you can hold the work (axle) in place. You use a lathe tool that is ground with the profile you wish to cut. It would have a rectangular profile if you were cutting keyways or a V profile if you are cutting splines. The operation is done with the lathe NOT running of course. You advance the carriage (saddle) back & forth by hand. With a keyway, it will take several passes. With the shallow splines on the crawler, they “might” be cut with just one pass.

If somebody (Ace?) decides to make their own broach to make the hex splines, then the same tool used to cut the broach could be used to cut the splines on the custom axle.

There is a problem that Ace noticed. Since they were rolled when the axle was in the annealed state, the displaced metal where the splines reside is larger in diameter than the rest of the axle. That means you need to start with material larger in diameter than the stock axles & then turn the axles down to the finish diameter after the splines are cut. There is also the issue of heat treating any custom axle you make.

I have run all this through my mind several times to see if it is practical. It can be done, but this could be real time consuming. I have come up with another idea of lengthening the axles using stock parts though. Welding is out of the picture since my gut feeling is that even if your weld doesn’t cause a stress riser next to the bead, the warpage will be unacceptable. The minimal width on my “proposed” prototype is 2.5 inches wider than stock. This would mean you could not use one inch wheel adapters. My goal is to put the centerline of the tire in line with the “kingpins” on the hub for less resistance when turning in the rocks.

BultacoJim · 04-25-2005, 12:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WRMorrison

The reason I ask is because of this idea stuck in my head

, I'm sure that most know the feeling. I want to make a kit that can convert the clod axle to use cvd's. That way, it could be "locked out" to improve ground clearance a bit, and at the same time, use a maxx-type knuckle to improve turning radius. I'm sure I'm not the only one to think of this, but I haven't seen anyone actually make it yet.

RokToy did something similar.

Ace · 04-25-2005, 08:33 AM

Hey Jim,

Check this out:

Clod Axle Widening

It does work, lowering required steering force. I ran 40's Dirt Hawgs at the last comp. I also run servo savers. Griz and I noticed that with my widened axles with the kingpins more centered I could run servo savers and not get steering flop on steep uphills. Griz has to run a solid servo arm. I also notice my clod seems to steer much better with the tires turning about their center, not 1" inside the tire.

BultacoJim · 04-26-2005, 06:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ace

Hey Jim,

Check this out:

Clod Axle Widening

I also run servo savers. Griz and I noticed that with my widened axles with the kingpins more centered I could run servo savers and not get steering flop on steep uphills.

Ohhh, an extra benefit I didn’t think of.

I saw your thread when you posted the axle wideners.
I’m in the process of making some for myself.
I am not guilty about stealing your idea at all.

Ace · 04-26-2005, 08:13 AM

Hardly stealing! How else would you do it?

Besides 99% of this one is in the execution, not the design...

kaetwo · 04-27-2005, 08:57 AM

Now that you've brought this issue up about a new design for a clod axel, how about a new replacement for the clod system all together. I talk in great length to the Pres. of Thunder Tech and he is working on a new axel system all together. I need to get his permision to talk more about the details and pricing, but with all the info that he gave me they sound pretty solid. I will definately be running a set when they become available.

I'll try and put some details together for you all very soon.

Sorry for the tease....:-(

Late

JohnRobHolmes · 04-27-2005, 09:52 AM

i have heard about those too. people talk too much on the phone

from my hearings it will basically be a clod made with better plastic, lockers (or ball diff or regular diff), and the scrub issues fixed. but this is like third hand news, so i could be wrong.

i second a replacement clod type axle, but one that has adjustable arms so that you could go maxx style clearance or clod style clearance. why not just make an integral gearbox for the maxx?

04-27-2005, 08:57 AM	#13
kaetwo I wanna be Dave Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Whales Posts: 2,939	Well.... Now that you've brought this issue up about a new design for a clod axel, how about a new replacement for the clod system all together. I talk in great length to the Pres. of Thunder Tech and he is working on a new axel system all together. I need to get his permision to talk more about the details and pricing, but with all the info that he gave me they sound pretty solid. I will definately be running a set when they become available. I'll try and put some details together for you all very soon. Sorry for the tease....:-( Late

04-24-2005, 05:15 PM	#1
WRMorrison Rock Crawler Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Land of the Free, because of the Brave Posts: 891	I've got a question for the new mod , or anyone else for that matter. How do you cut external splines? I've been wondering if there's a tool similar to a knurling tool that I can use on a lathe. I've searched the 'net, but only came up with specialized equipment for this purpose. Any idears?

04-24-2005, 07:26 PM	#3
Ace Rock Crawler Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Longmont, CO Posts: 901	I'd say Clod spines are rolled because they are bigger than the shaft. Must be done hot or before heat treat cause Clod shafts are pretty hard. I had thoughts of splining some axles when I widened my clod axles but when I realized the splines are bigger than the shaft I wound up pinning the new gear hex's on. I've been toying with making a clod broach to female spine wheel adapters.

04-24-2005, 07:32 PM	#4
BENDER 2006 2.2 National Champ Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Big Bear Lake Posts: 8,328	I split this into it's own thread.

04-24-2005, 08:29 PM	#5
RCALLOYS Quarry Creeper Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: St.Louis, MO. Posts: 369	Internal splines are obviously a snap if you have the right tools. As you can see from the picture.........we have the means to do internal spline work. We have tools for the correct spline on TXT shafts. External, as someone else stated they can be rolled but before any heat treat process. Can also be machined with an indexer as Bender stated. With an indexer, I'd guess it would be like making a gear. Dunno but we sure got a TON of people asking about external splines when we released the TXT spool. :-)

04-24-2005, 08:31 PM	#6
WRMorrison Rock Crawler Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Land of the Free, because of the Brave Posts: 891	The reason I ask is because of this idea stuck in my head , I'm sure that most know the feeling. I want to make a kit that can convert the clod axle to use cvd's. That way, it could be "locked out" to improve ground clearance a bit, and at the same time, use a maxx-type knuckle to improve turning radius. I'm sure I'm not the only one to think of this, but I haven't seen anyone actually make it yet.

04-24-2005, 09:11 PM	#8
BultacoJim Pebble Pounder Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Colorado Posts: 165	Here’s a site explaining Spline Rolling: http://www.colonialtool.com/spline.htm Like folks said before, they are either cold formed (rolled) or set up in an indexer on a mill and milled with a form cutter. But, I had an old German machinist (now I’m the old fart ) show me how to do it on a lathe long ago. It is the same way you cut keyways in gears without using a broach. You need to put an indexer on the lathe spindle so that you can hold the work (axle) in place. You use a lathe tool that is ground with the profile you wish to cut. It would have a rectangular profile if you were cutting keyways or a V profile if you are cutting splines. The operation is done with the lathe NOT running of course. You advance the carriage (saddle) back & forth by hand. With a keyway, it will take several passes. With the shallow splines on the crawler, they “might” be cut with just one pass. If somebody (Ace?) decides to make their own broach to make the hex splines, then the same tool used to cut the broach could be used to cut the splines on the custom axle. There is a problem that Ace noticed. Since they were rolled when the axle was in the annealed state, the displaced metal where the splines reside is larger in diameter than the rest of the axle. That means you need to start with material larger in diameter than the stock axles & then turn the axles down to the finish diameter after the splines are cut. There is also the issue of heat treating any custom axle you make. I have run all this through my mind several times to see if it is practical. It can be done, but this could be real time consuming. I have come up with another idea of lengthening the axles using stock parts though. Welding is out of the picture since my gut feeling is that even if your weld doesn’t cause a stress riser next to the bead, the warpage will be unacceptable. The minimal width on my “proposed” prototype is 2.5 inches wider than stock. This would mean you could not use one inch wheel adapters. My goal is to put the centerline of the tire in line with the “kingpins” on the hub for less resistance when turning in the rocks.

04-25-2005, 08:33 AM	#10
Ace Rock Crawler Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Longmont, CO Posts: 901	Hey Jim, Check this out: Clod Axle Widening It does work, lowering required steering force. I ran 40's Dirt Hawgs at the last comp. I also run servo savers. Griz and I noticed that with my widened axles with the kingpins more centered I could run servo savers and not get steering flop on steep uphills. Griz has to run a solid servo arm. I also notice my clod seems to steer much better with the tires turning about their center, not 1" inside the tire.

04-26-2005, 08:13 AM	#12
Ace Rock Crawler Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Longmont, CO Posts: 901	Hardly stealing! How else would you do it? Besides 99% of this one is in the execution, not the design...

04-27-2005, 09:52 AM	#14
JohnRobHolmes owner, Holmes Hobbies LLC Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Volt up! Gear down! Posts: 20,290	i have heard about those too. people talk too much on the phone from my hearings it will basically be a clod made with better plastic, lockers (or ball diff or regular diff), and the scrub issues fixed. but this is like third hand news, so i could be wrong. i second a replacement clod type axle, but one that has adjustable arms so that you could go maxx style clearance or clod style clearance. why not just make an integral gearbox for the maxx?

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