RCCrawler Forums

RD400 · 10-06-2007, 03:17 PM

I have a couple questions for you guys that run, program, and use CNC on a daily basis.

1. Between Haas, Milltronics, Kent, BridgePort or Fadal VMC's, which do you prefer and why?

2. CNC controls, which do you use and what do you see as highs and lows?

3. Factory support experience you have had with the above mentioned companies, what did you like and what p*ssed you off?

4. Thoughts on used VMC's. I have talked with sales men, manufacturers, end users and service people. Between all these people, I have had some VERY mixed answers. What do you think?

Any info would be greatly appreciated, and thank you,

Gerame

BENDER · 10-06-2007, 05:39 PM

I've run a lot of Haas machines here in Colorado. They are nice machines for certain work. The controls are user friendly. They aren't the most rigid machines though. They are perfect for aluminum, plastics, and light work with harder metals, like stainless.

I've run Fadal's too, and I didn't like them at all. The aren't very rigid, and the controllers are different then most CNC's.

I've mostly run Haas and Fanuc controls. The older Fanuc controls can be a pain, because they make you jump through tons of hoops to do anything.

You can find nice used CNC mills. The shop I work with found a nice Haas Mini-Mill about a year ago locally. Saved them some cash over buying new and it was in perfect shape. You can usually tell if the machine has had a hard life.

Kamikaze · 10-06-2007, 06:21 PM

I like the HAAS mills myself. I use Gibbs Pro Cam to do my programing, FANUC is ok, but it takes some time to learn all the "hoops" as Bender put it. For lathes I liek Gibbs but most of our lathes use ALPHA PLUS software, it looks like a NES game.

RD400 · 10-06-2007, 11:15 PM

I am leaning towards Haas right now due to the fact there is a factory rep, service center, parts house, and training about 15 minutes from me. That is making looking at anyone else tough. Plus, the cost for a new machine with the options I want is looking at coming in at about $37,000.00. That is $3,000.00 less then the couple other new VMC's base price. The bad I have seen with the Haas is the spindle speed, stock is only only 6,000 RPM. Most other VMC's start out at 8,000 RPM and some don't do less then 10 grand. You can get the Super MiniMill that bases out at $40,000.00 with the 10 grand spindle head, rigid tapping, coolant pump, and a couple other things standard but, I would still need to put another $5,200.00 on top of that to get the options I need.

Milltronics sounds like a much "stouter" machine and it is nice that they are assembled about 5 hours from my place. The Centurion control has great specs, but the cost seems a bit high compared to Haas. Plus, Haas' warranty is only 6 months vs Milltronics 2 years.

The BridgePort and Fadal reps seem to not want business. It has been over 10 days since I left messages with them about info and nothing. That doesn't speak well for them. If they won't answer the phone for a sale, whats going to happen when I crash the machine or have a problem?

I have over 100 hours of serious research in the past 10 days on machine purchasing and am getting a little brain faded. Hearing you guys input helps sort and organize thoughts slightly. Thanks to all that through their 2 cents in.

Gerame

hlpressley · 10-07-2007, 08:14 AM

I persoanlly have never used any of the above mentioned machines but I am a tool salesman by trade and I see a lot of machines on a day to day basis in my travels. Here in my area of NC Haas and Brideport seem to be the most popular. I have asked my customers several times why they use thier choice of machine and of course you always get a different answer but they always all tell me the Haas is the most economical or the "best bang for the buck" I have also worked with the Haas factory guys several times and they are also very helpful when it comes to technical support and such.

Keep in mind that I am in Charlotte, NC "Nascar Country" and I spend the majority of my time in the race teams shops Hendrick, Gibbs, DEI, Penske, Bill Davis, Evernham etc. and they are the customers that I speak of above and I am sure money isn't a problem for them and they almost all use Haas or Bridgeport.

I know this doesn't help much but I just thought I would throw it in there anyway.

Let me know when you are ready to tool that thing up.....I can help you out........Damn salesman.

sLeigh_P · 10-10-2007, 07:57 PM

RD400,

I'm the lathe guy at our shop, so I don't keep up with the mills that much. I asked our top mill guy what he liked about our Partners (Milltronics 5 machines) we have here. It comes down to accuracy, in these entry to mid level mills. Our shop runs prototype short order runs here with, as of lately tolerances of +/- .0002 The newer Partners (3 machines 8-12 yrs. old)can hold these tolerances with very little offset in a day. The older mills 2 machines ~15-20 yrs. old maybe .0035 growth in Z axis all day.

The mills are programed with either Mastercam or Gibbs.

American made is nice as well for getting service and parts, and the service is hassle free. Those two older machines were some of first Milltronics machines shipped to Colorado. So we have kind of an in with them.

Hope this was of some value to you.

Leigh

doctorducttape · 10-10-2007, 08:39 PM

i'm learning on a haas lathe right now, it seems to be pretty good and not to hard
i'll be learning the mill and mastercam next semester

hlpressley · 10-10-2007, 08:42 PM

Man, all of you guys talking about running these machines makes me jelous.

I wish I could afford to start over and really learn how to program and operate these machines correctly. I love my kids but man they sure do limit you on what you can do for a career or maybe I should say they demand that you do whatever pays the best rather than what you would enjoy the most. Oh well maybe someday.

Norcal crawler · 10-10-2007, 09:33 PM

I dont make crawler parts but we have a Haas and it is really nice. the controls are all right there and are easy to use. We mill plastic and wood stuff out and it has no problem doing it. It is kinda expensive though, the one we have. I wish my dad would let me use it to make rc stuff.

Racer4Life · 10-10-2007, 09:39 PM

I too am in the tool sales buisness. As for the new machines being installed in the facilities that I sell too are Haas machines. Haas does a good job getting the sale, delivering, and setting up the machines. They also have some very good tech's on the road doing service calls. The controllers on the Haas machines also seem pretty freindly.

Good Luck on your new purchase!

billet works · 10-11-2007, 02:58 PM

I love my HAAS mill. I'm self taught on the controls (having a background of Fanuc controls) and was running parts within an hour of turning it on. The HAAS controls are way easier to learn and teach to others than other controls I've used. As mentioned before...the smaller mills do not do too well with steel...but a nice VF 5 decked out will rip through tool steel all day long. I mostly rip through alum and plastics though. Their support is also awesome. I have had nothing but good experiences with all their staff.

I have had some time on Milltronics and my experience was not good. The controls weren't nearly as user friendly and the mill was down frequently in need of repair...and it was only a couple of years old.

Udlman · 10-12-2007, 02:44 PM

I run a Taiwanese Quaser VMC here in the land down under, We looked at the Haas VF series, but the basic machine without any options was more than what we paid for the Quaser. We couldn't believe that things like chip conveyors, Thru spindle coolant were options on the Haas. We didn't like the idea of paying AUD$900 for a floppy drive so that we could load large programs. DNC capability was a huge extra, something like $4k.

I find that the Fanuc controls easy to use, All new machines have a conversational programming function in them now, I use it most of the time for simple stuff like Drilling multiple holes, Making keyways, Boring holes for bearings etc.

Make sure you look at all the options before you buy, especially the options that you may want, Standard on some, options on others, this can add $$$$$$$$$$ on to the overall price.

HTH. Brad.

10-06-2007, 03:17 PM	#1
RD400 Rock Crawler Join Date: May 2005 Location: omaha Posts: 858	CNC users I have a couple questions for you guys that run, program, and use CNC on a daily basis. 1. Between Haas, Milltronics, Kent, BridgePort or Fadal VMC's, which do you prefer and why? 2. CNC controls, which do you use and what do you see as highs and lows? 3. Factory support experience you have had with the above mentioned companies, what did you like and what p*ssed you off? 4. Thoughts on used VMC's. I have talked with sales men, manufacturers, end users and service people. Between all these people, I have had some VERY mixed answers. What do you think? Any info would be greatly appreciated, and thank you, Gerame

10-11-2007, 02:58 PM	#11
billet works I wanna be Dave Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Earth Posts: 2,488	I love my HAAS mill. I'm self taught on the controls (having a background of Fanuc controls) and was running parts within an hour of turning it on. The HAAS controls are way easier to learn and teach to others than other controls I've used. As mentioned before...the smaller mills do not do too well with steel...but a nice VF 5 decked out will rip through tool steel all day long. I mostly rip through alum and plastics though. Their support is also awesome. I have had nothing but good experiences with all their staff. I have had some time on Milltronics and my experience was not good. The controls weren't nearly as user friendly and the mill was down frequently in need of repair...and it was only a couple of years old. Last edited by billet works; 10-11-2007 at 03:03 PM.

10-06-2007, 05:39 PM	#2
BENDER 2006 2.2 National Champ Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Big Bear Lake Posts: 8,328	I've run a lot of Haas machines here in Colorado. They are nice machines for certain work. The controls are user friendly. They aren't the most rigid machines though. They are perfect for aluminum, plastics, and light work with harder metals, like stainless. I've run Fadal's too, and I didn't like them at all. The aren't very rigid, and the controllers are different then most CNC's. I've mostly run Haas and Fanuc controls. The older Fanuc controls can be a pain, because they make you jump through tons of hoops to do anything. You can find nice used CNC mills. The shop I work with found a nice Haas Mini-Mill about a year ago locally. Saved them some cash over buying new and it was in perfect shape. You can usually tell if the machine has had a hard life.

10-06-2007, 06:21 PM	#3
Kamikaze I wanna be Dave Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Columbia TN Posts: 6,154	I like the HAAS mills myself. I use Gibbs Pro Cam to do my programing, FANUC is ok, but it takes some time to learn all the "hoops" as Bender put it. For lathes I liek Gibbs but most of our lathes use ALPHA PLUS software, it looks like a NES game.

10-06-2007, 11:15 PM	#4
RD400 Rock Crawler Join Date: May 2005 Location: omaha Posts: 858	I am leaning towards Haas right now due to the fact there is a factory rep, service center, parts house, and training about 15 minutes from me. That is making looking at anyone else tough. Plus, the cost for a new machine with the options I want is looking at coming in at about $37,000.00. That is $3,000.00 less then the couple other new VMC's base price. The bad I have seen with the Haas is the spindle speed, stock is only only 6,000 RPM. Most other VMC's start out at 8,000 RPM and some don't do less then 10 grand. You can get the Super MiniMill that bases out at $40,000.00 with the 10 grand spindle head, rigid tapping, coolant pump, and a couple other things standard but, I would still need to put another $5,200.00 on top of that to get the options I need. Milltronics sounds like a much "stouter" machine and it is nice that they are assembled about 5 hours from my place. The Centurion control has great specs, but the cost seems a bit high compared to Haas. Plus, Haas' warranty is only 6 months vs Milltronics 2 years. The BridgePort and Fadal reps seem to not want business. It has been over 10 days since I left messages with them about info and nothing. That doesn't speak well for them. If they won't answer the phone for a sale, whats going to happen when I crash the machine or have a problem? I have over 100 hours of serious research in the past 10 days on machine purchasing and am getting a little brain faded. Hearing you guys input helps sort and organize thoughts slightly. Thanks to all that through their 2 cents in. Gerame

10-07-2007, 08:14 AM	#5
hlpressley Quarry Creeper Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Monroe NC Posts: 456	I persoanlly have never used any of the above mentioned machines but I am a tool salesman by trade and I see a lot of machines on a day to day basis in my travels. Here in my area of NC Haas and Brideport seem to be the most popular. I have asked my customers several times why they use thier choice of machine and of course you always get a different answer but they always all tell me the Haas is the most economical or the "best bang for the buck" I have also worked with the Haas factory guys several times and they are also very helpful when it comes to technical support and such. Keep in mind that I am in Charlotte, NC "Nascar Country" and I spend the majority of my time in the race teams shops Hendrick, Gibbs, DEI, Penske, Bill Davis, Evernham etc. and they are the customers that I speak of above and I am sure money isn't a problem for them and they almost all use Haas or Bridgeport. I know this doesn't help much but I just thought I would throw it in there anyway. Let me know when you are ready to tool that thing up.....I can help you out........Damn salesman.

10-10-2007, 07:57 PM	#6
sLeigh_P Rock Stacker Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Longmont Posts: 67	RD400, I'm the lathe guy at our shop, so I don't keep up with the mills that much. I asked our top mill guy what he liked about our Partners (Milltronics 5 machines) we have here. It comes down to accuracy, in these entry to mid level mills. Our shop runs prototype short order runs here with, as of lately tolerances of +/- .0002 The newer Partners (3 machines 8-12 yrs. old)can hold these tolerances with very little offset in a day. The older mills 2 machines ~15-20 yrs. old maybe .0035 growth in Z axis all day. The mills are programed with either Mastercam or Gibbs. American made is nice as well for getting service and parts, and the service is hassle free. Those two older machines were some of first Milltronics machines shipped to Colorado. So we have kind of an in with them. Hope this was of some value to you. Leigh

10-10-2007, 08:39 PM	#7
doctorducttape Pebble Pounder Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: reno Posts: 146	i'm learning on a haas lathe right now, it seems to be pretty good and not to hard i'll be learning the mill and mastercam next semester

10-10-2007, 08:42 PM	#8
hlpressley Quarry Creeper Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Monroe NC Posts: 456	Man, all of you guys talking about running these machines makes me jelous. I wish I could afford to start over and really learn how to program and operate these machines correctly. I love my kids but man they sure do limit you on what you can do for a career or maybe I should say they demand that you do whatever pays the best rather than what you would enjoy the most. Oh well maybe someday.

10-10-2007, 09:33 PM	#9
Norcal crawler RCC Addict Join Date: May 2006 Location: California Posts: 1,361	I dont make crawler parts but we have a Haas and it is really nice. the controls are all right there and are easy to use. We mill plastic and wood stuff out and it has no problem doing it. It is kinda expensive though, the one we have. I wish my dad would let me use it to make rc stuff.

10-10-2007, 09:39 PM	#10
Racer4Life I wanna be Dave Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: In Cali. Posts: 4,109	I too am in the tool sales buisness. As for the new machines being installed in the facilities that I sell too are Haas machines. Haas does a good job getting the sale, delivering, and setting up the machines. They also have some very good tech's on the road doing service calls. The controllers on the Haas machines also seem pretty freindly. Good Luck on your new purchase!

10-12-2007, 02:44 PM	#12
Udlman Rock Stacker Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Brisbane, Australia Posts: 59	I run a Taiwanese Quaser VMC here in the land down under, We looked at the Haas VF series, but the basic machine without any options was more than what we paid for the Quaser. We couldn't believe that things like chip conveyors, Thru spindle coolant were options on the Haas. We didn't like the idea of paying AUD$900 for a floppy drive so that we could load large programs. DNC capability was a huge extra, something like $4k. I find that the Fanuc controls easy to use, All new machines have a conversational programming function in them now, I use it most of the time for simple stuff like Drilling multiple holes, Making keyways, Boring holes for bearings etc. Make sure you look at all the options before you buy, especially the options that you may want, Standard on some, options on others, this can add $$$$$$$$$$ on to the overall price. HTH. Brad.

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