Initial machine purchase

[BENDER]

Originally Posted by johnrobholmes

not to hijack, but that frame looks a little beefier than freeride bender. more like 45 lb downhiller. 8" travel?

It's on the big side for freeride, for sure. I'm going for heavy duty freeride/downhill. It'll have 7" travel front and rear. I'm going to try and keep the main tubes on the thinner side for weight reasons. I chose single pivot for drops and simplicity. I already ride a 35 pound freeride hardtail, for cross country, urban and DH. I'm really hard on parts, I've broken frames, cranks, pedals, I have yet to meet a rear rim I can't destroy on my hard tail. I need a new rear wheel BAD right now.

[JohnRobHolmes]

cant say ive ever broken much. i ride urban, trials, and mountain, there are no downhills to huck around here.

my bigger drops are about 6' concrete to concrete with no transition. still no breakage. maybe im just a smooth rider

you gonna make it yourself with a jig?

[BultacoJim]

BlueMonster,

Ace has some great info posted here.
But I want to add my .02 cents.

Originally Posted by Ace

I just remembered:
Center drills, used to start a drill on location. Otherwise the drill point will deflect a little and the hole won't start where you wanted (thou or three off). Get a few of the small sizes (1/4" shaft or so)

Quick explanation

Center drills are used with the lathe to drill a hole in the end of stock for mounting between centers in the lathe.
They are designed to drill a small diameter pilot hole followed by a 60° countersink that provides a bearing surface for the 60° point of the lathe center. Center drills are also used extensively with the milling machine to accurately start holes.

http://www.lathemaster.com/PIECECENTERDRILLSET.htm

But, I quit using them for starting holes I want to drill, after having that small tip break off in my work a few times. I have since switched to spotting drills.

Spotting drills are very short and rigid, and are made with angles of 90, 118, and 120 degrees. They have a very narrow chisel edge and a very small web to ensure accurate starting. 90 degree spotting drills are recommended for use with drill bits up to 118 degrees, but some people prefer 118 degrees.

In use, you will set up the machine's depth stop so that the spotting drill will penetrate just enough to leave a hole of the desired final diameter. If you use a 90 degree spotting drill, this is very easy to calculate (diameter is twice the
depth). Also, if you go just a bit deeper, you can chamfer or countersink the hole at the same time.

Both kinds can be seen at:

http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INPDFF?PMPAGE=23

Originally Posted by Ace

Grab their 1/4" edge finder.!

When you buy one, get two because you’ll get in a hurry one day and break it. :?
I have been using a Wiggler/Center Finder made by General that is practically indestructible. After my son broke two of my Starrett edge finders, I bought it for him so he would keep his hands off of mine. Now I find myself using it more than my Starrett.

http://www.littlemachineshop.com/pro...ProductID=1823

Below is the General Wiggler/Center Finder. Even my son couldn’t break this.

http://www.toolpeddler.com/s389-4.htm

Originally Posted by Ace

Endmills:

Get a few, you'll be breaking them learning on a cnc!

That's fur sure

[BENDER]

Originally Posted by johnrobholmes

cant say ive ever broken much. i ride urban, trials, and mountain, there are no downhills to huck around here.

my bigger drops are about 6' concrete to concrete with no transition. still no breakage. maybe im just a smooth rider

you gonna make it yourself with a jig?

Sounds like you are smoother. I finesse the hell out of trails, but on drops and jumps I seem to land like a lead weight. My bigger drops are about the same, if not shorter to flat concrete.

I'm going to make the jig myself, but I've got the best welder Yeti bicycles has ever seen to weld it for me. I'm good friends with BSB Machine they machine/weld alot of parts for Yeti.

[BlueMonster]

Ace, you said

"Get the single ended (not double ended) for your collets, get 2 flutes for aluminum 4 flutes for steel, make sure they are "Center cutting" or they will only cut sideways, not straight in like a drill."

Could you elaborate?

Also, could you post a pic of your vice parallels? I'd like to see what they look like, maybe my first job would be to make some?

[JasonInAugusta]

Single ended...one end of the tool has flutes and cuts material, other end simply chucks up in the collet.

flutes...number of cutting edges on the endmill. 2 for aluminum so it doesn't gum up. 4 flutes cutters are cool for steel.

Center cutting. The cutting edge of the flutes extends into the center of the bottom of the cutter. This allows you to "plunge" the cutter into material rather then be limited to bringing it into the material from the side at a certain depth.

If you're running CNC you'll definitely want centercutting endmills.

*edit...that's the best you're going to get outta me at 1:30 or so in the morning.

[BlueMonster]

Okay, here is my list for the mill, including the mill. Am I missing anything here? I didn't list a drill set, but I have a Tool Town store nearby where I can get a good set, I am sure.

2019CRHC Mill $991.00
Taig part # 1110 Slitting Saw Arbor $5.10
Taig part # 1111 Slitting Saw $12.00
Use-enco.com #DG322-5908 1/8” end mill $5.89 (x2)
Enco #DG322-5916 ¼” end mill $9.59 (x2)
Enco #DG322-5924 3/8” end mill $15.49 (x2)
Enco #505-2144 Toolmakers Vice $38.99
Taig 2228 ¼” edge finder $10.50 (x2)
Enco #309-1000 Tap set $48.38
Enco #DG891-7507 Indicator $29.95
Enco #505-1360 Center Drills $14.45

Thank you guys so much for all the help, it has been INVALUABLE! It would have taken me forever to figure out what I needed, now I'll be able to get started sooner than later.

[BENDER]

Originally Posted by BlueMonster

Ace, you said

"Get the single ended (not double ended) for your collets, get 2 flutes for aluminum 4 flutes for steel, make sure they are "Center cutting" or they will only cut sideways, not straight in like a drill."

Could you elaborate?

Let me see if I can help you out Ace, BTW great info.

Single ended endmills are like drills, they only have cutting flutes on 1 end. Double ended endmills have cutting flutes on both ends. So, if you break an endmill by accident in machine, with a single ended endmill, the backside of the endmill won't cut into collet. When this happens with a double ended endmill, the collet is junk after because it cuts the bore of the collet up. The collet usually has runout after too.

Generally speaking.......two flute endmills have 2 cutting flutes on them. They are for higher spindle rpm applications, like cutting softer materials ie. alum and plastics. You will also feed the machine faster in soft materials, the 2 flute design is better suited the pull thicker chips with out clogging up. Four flute endmills have 4 cutting edges. They are for cutting harder materials ie. steels. You will use a lower spindle rpm and a slower feedrate.

Center cutting endmills have the ability to "plunge" into material as well as side mill. If you look at the tip of an endmill, on the center cutting em's one flute will be longer then the other. Non center cutting have symetrical flute ends.

Hope that helps, I see that JIA already gave you some great info.

[JasonInAugusta]

I wouldn't call it great

Half-ass laymens terms...maybe.

[Ace]

Blue,

THey answered the questions well.

I didn't look, but does Taig have a flycutter?

Very handy to have.A flycutter makes a great first project but w/o a lathe it would be tough. Fly cutters hold a lathe bit (single point cutter). Since it uses a lathe bit, they are easily sharpened by hand and thus are very economical to use. They allow you to clean a face off material because they cut a wide path (about 1.5" for our small mills). IF you only have .375" end mills, you'd have to take 10+ passes to clean up a 3.75" face. With the flycutter you can do it in two or three.


Parallels:

No need for a drawing. Picture a thin rectangle. 1/8" thick, about 4" wide and for height, the height of your vice jaws less .125" or so


You need two.

Say your milling a 1/2" thick plate, maybe drilling holes thru it. You can't just slap it in the vice. A, you'll drill thru the plate into your fancy vice and B, since the 1/2" plate would be recessed about 1/2" from the top of your vice you couldn't mill the top flat.

So, you stand up two parallels in the vice, one against each jaw. Then the plate is sat on top of the parallels. Now the plate sticks above the jaws .375" and you can mill the entire top w/o hitting the vice. Plus you can drill thru the plate and not hit the vice. You can even remove the parallels and drill very close to the edge of the plate (woulda hit the parallels if still there)

Only one dimension is critical, the height. Even that isn't critical but it must be parallel and both parallels must have the same height.

If I had my choice, I'd make them a little less than .125" thick, say .115" That way you can vice clamp a part that's .125" wide (using one parallel). Or you can vice clamp a part that's .25" widewith two.

I'd make the height such that a .125" thick plate will still just protrude above the vice. That way you can still mill the top of .125" thick part.

I bought mine, only catch is there for a bridgport so they are 6" wide. Still work fine. The ones you buy are hardened steel and ground very parallel.

[BlueMonster]

I see two different types (it appears) of fly cutters on Enco.

http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?P...&PARTPG=INLMK3

http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?P...&PARTPG=INLMK3

What's the difference?

[Ace]

Those are 1/2" and 3/4" shanks, WAY to big for the Taig.

Never used a Taig but this would work well I think:

1224* Fly Cutter, 1 1/4 to 2 1/2 inch diameter, 3/4-16 thread
mount, tool bit included.

[BlueMonster]

Here is a question for you guys. Is there an attachment that would allow a mill to do lathe work? Is that something that could be fabricated with a mill?

[BlueMonster]

Is this mill a huge step down from the Taig? Is there anyone who as used one? Can anyone see a reason why it wouldn't work fine?

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=44991

I still need to find all the equipment, I just have to work within a budget now...

[BlueMonster]

I also found this one...

http://www.grizzly.com/products/item...emnumber=G8689

[WRMorrison]

Originally Posted by BlueMonster

Is this mill a huge step down from the Taig? Is there anyone who as used one? Can anyone see a reason why it wouldn't work fine?

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=44991

I still need to find all the equipment, I just have to work within a budget now...

Here's the one I use at home.

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=42976

It's a bit cheaper than the one in the link you posted, and a little bit bigger as well. All the hand wheels are in standard graduations (I can't remember how much per revolution, I'll check tonight). It works just fine for rc related stuff and comes with a 4" swivel vise, and a 5/8" capacity drill chuck.

They do make different size collets for it (MT3 size I believe, and they're a PITA to change), so I just use the mill bits in the drill chuck. Not very precise, but more than enough for what I use it for. You'll need a different vise for it, or have someone modify the vise that comes with it. The ground bed on the vise doesn't go all the way to the fixed jaw (it's rough cast under the fixed jaw), so that makes it impossible to use a set of parallels accurately. I just used a 5/8" end mill to clean up the rough casting (it's about .125 below the surface of the ground bed) and made some "somewhat parallels" to use (every pair contains one parallel .125 taller than the other) Or, if you're not as tight as I am, you can buy a decent 6" swivel vise from enco for around $80.00.

If you have any more questions, feel free to ask.

-Rich

[JasonInAugusta]

BlueMonster,

My best advice (this is coming from what I've learned and what some local guys all agree upon) is to buy the best equipment you can afford.

If you buy the cheaper equipment you get just that...cheaper equipment. Although it may not hinder your ability to make parts, you'll have a harder time keeping tight tolerances.

I've seen two of the little Grizzlies in person. I was amazed at how much play was in them. You could literally crank the Z axis handwheel 1/3rd of a turn before you'd get movement. :scary:

Out of the mills you've listed, the Taig seems like the better choice.

[Ace]

Well said Jason.

I never regret buying good stuff.

I almost always regret buying cheap stuff.

[BultacoJim]

Originally Posted by BlueMonster

Here is a question for you guys. Is there an attachment that would allow a mill to do lathe work? Is that something that could be fabricated with a mill?

Not really, but using a rotary table in conjunction with a mill like JasonInAugusta does, you can sure come close. I guess you could rig up something that could turn your work between centers and hog off the waste with an end mill. But it would be crude.

Go back to the time before the Industrial Revolution. The wood lathe existed thousand of years before any modern metal cutting equipment was invented. The first metal-cutting lathe was built in 1701 by a Frenchman. Good old Eli Whitney invented the first milling machine in 1818. By the way, he used a lathe to make it. The metal-cutting lathe is the only machine that can replicate itself I have been told. I can make a perfect four-inch cube on my lathe, and Ace has an attachment he built to make spherical turnings on his lathe.

Clod Axle Widening

Buy a nice lathe and get yourself a small drill press until you acquire a mill.
Like JasonInAugusta said, buy the best quality you can. You don’t save money by buying twice.

So…… to do milling on a lathe:

If you get the Taig lathe, here’s an attachment to make milling on it possible.
http://www.taigtools.com/c1220.html

Here’s how to build your own.
http://www.gizmology.net/millattach.htm

Here’s one that fits a variety of mini-lathes.
http://www.littlemachineshop.com/pro...ProductID=1681

Remember though, 3-jaw lathe chucks are not the best things to hold an end mill. An end mill is as hard as a woodpecker’s lips and the lathe jaw will be unable to get a firm purchase on it. An end mill needs to be held in a collet if you want to avoid any slippage.

And here is a Message Board with another guy trying to decide what to buy.

http://nawcc-mb.infopop.cc/eve/ubb.x...1/m/3326075112


Decisions, decisions, decisions…. But isn't it fun!

[JasonInAugusta]

I'm using that Sherline like clockwork.


Lathe + Vertical milling column = WIN!