RCCrawler Forums

SlickRockSpider · 06-20-2008, 12:48 PM

Great thread.

I have been a tool maker in portland for years. I have a Lagun knee mill and a jet gear head lathe at home. I would like to see some of the parts you guys are making. That would be really cool!

I build production fixtures for inspection, robotic welding, and cnc machining.

When I got my knee mill I purchased about 1500.00 worth in tooling alone just for the mill.

Have a great time throwing chips and making a mess.

If I ever get the time to make parts for my ax10 I will post pics of them.

Take your time. Go slow. Be safe!

FL Knifemaker · 06-20-2008, 04:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SlickRockSpider

Great thread.

I have been a tool maker in portland for years. I have a Lagun knee mill and a jet gear head lathe at home. I would like to see some of the parts you guys are making. That would be really cool!

I build production fixtures for inspection, robotic welding, and cnc machining.

When I got my knee mill I purchased about 1500.00 worth in tooling alone just for the mill.

Have a great time throwing chips and making a mess.

If I ever get the time to make parts for my ax10 I will post pics of them.

Take your time. Go slow. Be safe!

My background is similar. I started working as a machinst apprentice at 17. I spent all my life working in manufacturing doing tool and die work, fixturing and prototyping. The last few years of my machine shop employment was spent setting up and running CNC lathes. I worked my way into management, then all the fun ended

I quit my last real job about 8 years ago and have been full time with knifemaking since. In addition to my CNC mill, I have Feeler turret lathe. The Feeler is a Korean clone of a Hardinge HC chucker. I also have two surface grinders and quite a collection of belt grinders

ccm399 · 10-10-2008, 06:14 PM

I am SOOOO close to pullin' the trigger on one of these. Actually if I had the $$$ right now it would already be in my garage! LOL

Can't wait!

I used to be a machinist but now I am in I.T so I don't get much of a chance to make things these days.

MOVIN-SLOOOOOOW · 03-05-2009, 08:37 AM

I SEE THEY OFFER ONE ON EBAY FOR 1980 BUCKS..HMMMMMMM

I WOULDN'T KNOW WHERE TO START ON PROGRAMING.

megacabcummins · 03-05-2009, 08:57 AM

So Bender what happened with the bike frame? Just curious, I used to test ride for Magura, but have not been on my bike for some time... I need to get back out on it.

Monster did you get a mill?

BENDER · 03-05-2009, 09:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by msps003

So Bender what happened with the bike frame? Just curious, I used to test ride for Magura, but have not been on my bike for some time... I need to get back out on it.

Not a thing, it's still just a file on my computer.

mac6986 · 03-17-2009, 06:08 PM

so ive been reading over this thread, and any other thread pertaining to this subject and im still lost on what machine i should purchase. i plan on mainly making chassis components out of aluminum. eventually ill be making wheels too. i know that im going cnc right off the bat, but im stuck between the mill or the router. would i be able to use the router to make wheels?

Mayhem Eng. · 03-17-2009, 08:37 PM

For about $20,000. You can buy a used Haas mini mill, 6000 rpm spindle 10 tool turret all in all nice machine easy to use and much more versatile then a router, actually two totally different animals. If you have the coin I would go for the Haas. One thing about the Haas is it's 220 single phase meaning you can run it in the garage and it's foot print is like 6.5 x 6.5 the travel is 16. in x axis 12 in the y axis and 12. in z axis. Big enough for 99% of what you will need for rc stuff. You may be able to find them cheaper with the way things are right now?

Mayhem Eng.

C*H*U*D · 03-19-2009, 08:01 AM

A tool changing Haas would be nice, but $20K is a big price tag for many of us. I've been watching Craigslist lately, and there are a BUNCH of great machines out there now. For example, there is a 2-axis Prototrak for sale in my area right now for $6k. This machine could easily make wheels, and would not require seperate CAM software to run it. Just another thing to think about.

mac6986 · 03-20-2009, 08:33 AM

well, after many hours of research ive decided to go with the sherline cnc desktop mill. it seems to be the most complete setup out-of-the-box, and has great support both from the manufacturer and forums on the web. thanks for all the helpfull information.

KILLER KRAWLER · 04-18-2009, 09:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BENDER

Here's a peak at a freeride mountain bike frame I'm designing. I used Mastercam to generate the 1:1 geometry for this frame. Once I get all the rest of the details ironed out, I'll turn the file into a 3-D solid. Then I'll have a blueprint for every part on this bike, that I can also put a tool path to for CNC machining of parts as needed. I still need to draw up the details on the swingarm for disc brake mount, derailleur hanger, and rear thru axle clamp.

that looks alot like my dhr. sick design!

solowluv · 02-05-2010, 01:00 AM

was just wondering what kind of stuff you guys are using this all for ive allways been interested in machine work but what are you guys makeing stuff for your own crawlers or for aftermarket kits er work related?

pero824 · 02-06-2010, 01:41 AM

I bought a Smithy lathe I worked in a machine shop I bought drill indexes center finder center finder live center mics . I spent 2700.00$ on lath and mill was a granite model we got rid of our machine shop at the refinery . You had better have a pocket book full of some benjamines .I had to take a medical retirement sold it lost 60% of the cost of machine and all the tools

nakovalnja1976 · 02-06-2010, 03:34 PM

The Regard, liked the forum!

Bmr4life · 02-22-2010, 12:30 PM

$20K, that's nuts for just hobby stuff. Even $2500 is a lot. There's got to be a 100% manual mill for under $500.

pbarsamian · 04-19-2010, 06:19 AM

Dunno if this helps but I'll give my "journey" with CNC and actually having owned a Taig for the last 4 years.

I have an engineering background and some woodworking experience but none with machining.

I ended up bidding on ebay for a 4 axis Taig CNC setup and lost, contacted the guy, worked out a deal, and ended up with a pretty decent (for a taig) machine with 250oz steppers and a Xylotex control board.

I've since modified the taig by ripping the stock motor off, making a custom toothed belt drive using alu pulleys from SDP/SI, putting a 1/2hp motor on a VFD controller that controls spindle speed from the computer. I learned more about robotics and motion control in the month I spent doing that than a years worth of senior design classes at a world class engineering university.

I ended up buying Mach 3 which for 90% of home shop machinists seems to be THE choice for motion control software, it is probably one of the best written and supported pieces of software for 150 dollars I've ever seen and I work with global software companies in my day job.

Important point: As a noob to machining, I had to learn a LOT about machining that had nothing to do with CNC. In fact, I think CNC added to the mix made things HARDER to learn not easier. I had the common misgivings that CNC machines magically spit parts out after you draw them in cad.

Here are some lessons I learned that I try to pass onto friends looking to get into this:

1) Learn material characteristics, feeds, speeds, and what type of cutter to use for certain types of cuts.
2) Fixturing is the THE biggest challenge for any machining operation let alone for CNC work
3) Learning to think like a machinist rather than an engineer, sometimes the coolest looking parts are a B*tch to machine and don't have to be to function well in the application.
4) Precision is a sliding scale, usually repeatability is more important than drilling that hole to 1/10th of a thou precision
5) ***BIGGER AND HEAVIER MACHINES ALWAYS CUT BETTER*** even and especially on small parts.
6) You will spend more time trying to get your machine tuned to cut accurately and maintaining it than you will using it to cut metal. Especially if it is a small one
7) Setup, edge finding, etc take more time than cutting parts.

Coolant is a must, flood is desirable, (the Taig is no exception, build a tub or enclosure, use and bucket and a fishtank pump if you have to)

CNC lessons learned
1) Computers are accurate, metal machines aren't, just because the computer says it's going to X1.0441 Y2.3251, doesn't mean the machine is actually there in reference to your 0,0 point (unless you have a closed loop system
2) CAM software is worth what you pay for it, and until you can think like a machinist instead of a CAD designer is still mostly useless (comic sarcasm here)

Final thoughts:
I would have started with the Grizzley sq column manual mill if I had known then what I know now (and incidentally a machinst friend of mine told me this way back when and I didn't listen).

The taig is a nice VERY small mill, and if you really work hard, you can hold about 1 thou tolerance (which is really good for this machine) but you'll have to machine and rapid slowly since the gibs will be really tight. It's also not designed in any way shape or form for coolant and chip management so you'll need to keep it clean. It also does NOT fit standard vises and T slot hardware so you'll need to make or buy custom stuff for the TAIG. Fitting a good vis on it is hard, I had to have my friend with a big mill cut down the smallest "Kurt style" vise I could find to get a good one on there.

Also the biggest tooling you'll be able to get on that Taig and use reasonably is anything with a 3/8" shank. When I actually try to mill w/ a 3/8" carbide cutter, the whole machine vibrates, the realistic capacity for cutting most stuff is really going to be a couple hundreths per pass using something like a 1/4" em.

Also get good at making and grinding your own tooling, finding good hoggers, fly cutters, etc, that fit this mill can be a challenge.

Overall for cutting small alu parts, it's OK. For the 2K price tag you'll pay, I'd have been better off buying a bigger square column 9x32" mill, learning to use it, and then retro fitting a CNC setup to it.

Frankly I'm shopping now for a manual Sq column mill that I'll end up fitting a DRO to. If I could fit a full size knee mill at bridgeport capacity in my shop, I would go find a used one and restore it. Somethings are actually easier to do manually than on CNC.

pbarsamian · 04-19-2010, 06:30 AM

Also forgot some usefull links:

www.cnczone.com
www.littlemachineshop.com
www.cdcotools.com
www.use-enco.com
www.mscindustrial.com
www.grizzly.com

Also if you do get the Taig, here a few things that are musts:

1) homing switches
2) Tool stop kit or tool collars to allow Z height indexing
3) Mach 3
4) ER Collet set and spindle kit
5) extra belts if you don't change pulleys out
6) Some way oil
7) something to bolt the machine down to.

Picture of my current machine:
http://api.photoshop.com/home_5ec78b...e167e0c6a577ef

freemachinist · 05-29-2010, 09:49 AM

Well, I own a precision machine shop, and I can tell you honestly that a small mill is just that a small mill. You'll need a but load of patience. The mill can not take big cuts, the motors aren't even 1/4 horse power. Someone said it. Its not a $25,000 mill. I have 2 CNC at the shop. A sharp 1224 mini mill and a huge Chevalier 2040VMC. i refuse to buy a mill for my garage because they'll never meet my expectations in the garage. I'd rather go back to work and do what I need to do.

But, if you're just a hobbyist, go for it. I have the Harbor Freight little lathe, its killer. I'm genuinely impressed with it. it sounds like you would best benefit from a Smithy. Lathe / mill combo. You can find them cheap.

The Taig you're looking at, what is the interface? There is not computer attached to the machine. What is the software? Do you have a cam program or are you that good at math?

Tryker46 · 05-30-2010, 03:22 AM

you made good points about the taig FM. jumping into a full on cnc machine can be problematic when you are trying to piece it together. i just got done going to my local jr college to learn cnc and it was frustrating to try and code my parts to fit in their work cube. my sugestion to anyone wanting to machine their own stuff(not opening a shop yet) is to get a manual mill and lathe. you can pick up the fundamentals and not drop alot of coin.
i've got a micromark.com 7x14 that i use at home after reading about this class of machine tools on mini-lathe.com.

freemachinist · 05-30-2010, 05:29 AM

I'm going to get in trouble for this. You really can't learn at a vocational school. I mean the CNC codes. There is "conversational" and "g code" I'm fluent in both. Took 10 years to get fluent though. Years ago I went to our local vocational school to try a learn a few more things about the business I bought. I learned nothing, in fact, the instructor refunded my money because he couldn't teach me anything.
The other thing about learning at a vocational school, is their machines may be different. Either the language or the "canned" cycles. No 2 machines use the same "canned cycles". Its frustrating sometimes. Especially when you have to put a job into a different machine other than the one it was programmed for.

I'll do machining for anyone at fair rates. PM me.

04-19-2010, 06:19 AM	#76
pbarsamian Pebble Pounder Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Glenview Posts: 129	Dunno if this helps but I'll give my "journey" with CNC and actually having owned a Taig for the last 4 years. I have an engineering background and some woodworking experience but none with machining. I ended up bidding on ebay for a 4 axis Taig CNC setup and lost, contacted the guy, worked out a deal, and ended up with a pretty decent (for a taig) machine with 250oz steppers and a Xylotex control board. I've since modified the taig by ripping the stock motor off, making a custom toothed belt drive using alu pulleys from SDP/SI, putting a 1/2hp motor on a VFD controller that controls spindle speed from the computer. I learned more about robotics and motion control in the month I spent doing that than a years worth of senior design classes at a world class engineering university. I ended up buying Mach 3 which for 90% of home shop machinists seems to be THE choice for motion control software, it is probably one of the best written and supported pieces of software for 150 dollars I've ever seen and I work with global software companies in my day job. Important point: As a noob to machining, I had to learn a LOT about machining that had nothing to do with CNC. In fact, I think CNC added to the mix made things HARDER to learn not easier. I had the common misgivings that CNC machines magically spit parts out after you draw them in cad. Here are some lessons I learned that I try to pass onto friends looking to get into this: 1) Learn material characteristics, feeds, speeds, and what type of cutter to use for certain types of cuts. 2) Fixturing is the THE biggest challenge for any machining operation let alone for CNC work 3) Learning to think like a machinist rather than an engineer, sometimes the coolest looking parts are a Btch to machine and don't have to be to function well in the application. 4) Precision is a sliding scale, usually repeatability is more important than drilling that hole to 1/10th of a thou precision 5) BIGGER AND HEAVIER MACHINES ALWAYS CUT BETTER* even and especially on small parts. 6) You will spend more time trying to get your machine tuned to cut accurately and maintaining it than you will using it to cut metal. Especially if it is a small one 7) Setup, edge finding, etc take more time than cutting parts. Coolant is a must, flood is desirable, (the Taig is no exception, build a tub or enclosure, use and bucket and a fishtank pump if you have to) CNC lessons learned 1) Computers are accurate, metal machines aren't, just because the computer says it's going to X1.0441 Y2.3251, doesn't mean the machine is actually there in reference to your 0,0 point (unless you have a closed loop system 2) CAM software is worth what you pay for it, and until you can think like a machinist instead of a CAD designer is still mostly useless (comic sarcasm here) Final thoughts: I would have started with the Grizzley sq column manual mill if I had known then what I know now (and incidentally a machinst friend of mine told me this way back when and I didn't listen). The taig is a nice VERY small mill, and if you really work hard, you can hold about 1 thou tolerance (which is really good for this machine) but you'll have to machine and rapid slowly since the gibs will be really tight. It's also not designed in any way shape or form for coolant and chip management so you'll need to keep it clean. It also does NOT fit standard vises and T slot hardware so you'll need to make or buy custom stuff for the TAIG. Fitting a good vis on it is hard, I had to have my friend with a big mill cut down the smallest "Kurt style" vise I could find to get a good one on there. Also the biggest tooling you'll be able to get on that Taig and use reasonably is anything with a 3/8" shank. When I actually try to mill w/ a 3/8" carbide cutter, the whole machine vibrates, the realistic capacity for cutting most stuff is really going to be a couple hundreths per pass using something like a 1/4" em. Also get good at making and grinding your own tooling, finding good hoggers, fly cutters, etc, that fit this mill can be a challenge. Overall for cutting small alu parts, it's OK. For the 2K price tag you'll pay, I'd have been better off buying a bigger square column 9x32" mill, learning to use it, and then retro fitting a CNC setup to it. Frankly I'm shopping now for a manual Sq column mill that I'll end up fitting a DRO to. If I could fit a full size knee mill at bridgeport capacity in my shop, I would go find a used one and restore it. Somethings are actually easier to do manually than on CNC. Last edited by pbarsamian; 04-19-2010 at 06:37 AM.

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06-20-2008, 12:48 PM	#61
SlickRockSpider Rock Crawler Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Albany Posts: 640	Great thread. I have been a tool maker in portland for years. I have a Lagun knee mill and a jet gear head lathe at home. I would like to see some of the parts you guys are making. That would be really cool! I build production fixtures for inspection, robotic welding, and cnc machining. When I got my knee mill I purchased about 1500.00 worth in tooling alone just for the mill. Have a great time throwing chips and making a mess. If I ever get the time to make parts for my ax10 I will post pics of them. Take your time. Go slow. Be safe!

10-10-2008, 06:14 PM	#63
ccm399 Newbie Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Medina Posts: 31	I am SOOOO close to pullin' the trigger on one of these. Actually if I had the $$$ right now it would already be in my garage! LOL Can't wait! I used to be a machinist but now I am in I.T so I don't get much of a chance to make things these days.

03-05-2009, 08:37 AM	#64
MOVIN-SLOOOOOOW Quarry Creeper Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: IN MY HOUSE Posts: 251	I SEE THEY OFFER ONE ON EBAY FOR 1980 BUCKS..HMMMMMMM I WOULDN'T KNOW WHERE TO START ON PROGRAMING.

03-05-2009, 08:57 AM	#65
megacabcummins Quarry Creeper Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Marysville Posts: 452	So Bender what happened with the bike frame? Just curious, I used to test ride for Magura, but have not been on my bike for some time... I need to get back out on it. Monster did you get a mill?

03-17-2009, 06:08 PM	#67
mac6986 Newbie Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: NJ Posts: 11	so ive been reading over this thread, and any other thread pertaining to this subject and im still lost on what machine i should purchase. i plan on mainly making chassis components out of aluminum. eventually ill be making wheels too. i know that im going cnc right off the bat, but im stuck between the mill or the router. would i be able to use the router to make wheels?

03-17-2009, 08:37 PM	#68
Mayhem Eng. I wanna be Dave Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Not here Posts: 2,814	For about $20,000. You can buy a used Haas mini mill, 6000 rpm spindle 10 tool turret all in all nice machine easy to use and much more versatile then a router, actually two totally different animals. If you have the coin I would go for the Haas. One thing about the Haas is it's 220 single phase meaning you can run it in the garage and it's foot print is like 6.5 x 6.5 the travel is 16. in x axis 12 in the y axis and 12. in z axis. Big enough for 99% of what you will need for rc stuff. You may be able to find them cheaper with the way things are right now? Mayhem Eng.

03-19-2009, 08:01 AM	#69
CHU*D No idea what I'm doing Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Underground, CO Posts: 4,529	A tool changing Haas would be nice, but $20K is a big price tag for many of us. I've been watching Craigslist lately, and there are a BUNCH of great machines out there now. For example, there is a 2-axis Prototrak for sale in my area right now for $6k. This machine could easily make wheels, and would not require seperate CAM software to run it. Just another thing to think about.

03-20-2009, 08:33 AM	#70
mac6986 Newbie Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: NJ Posts: 11	well, after many hours of research ive decided to go with the sherline cnc desktop mill. it seems to be the most complete setup out-of-the-box, and has great support both from the manufacturer and forums on the web. thanks for all the helpfull information.

02-05-2010, 01:00 AM	#72
solowluv Rock Stacker Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: bay area Posts: 80	was just wondering what kind of stuff you guys are using this all for ive allways been interested in machine work but what are you guys makeing stuff for your own crawlers or for aftermarket kits er work related?

02-06-2010, 01:41 AM	#73
pero824 Newbie Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Santa Fe, Texas 30min. SW of Galveston Island Posts: 18	I bought a Smithy lathe I worked in a machine shop I bought drill indexes center finder center finder live center mics . I spent 2700.00$ on lath and mill was a granite model we got rid of our machine shop at the refinery . You had better have a pocket book full of some benjamines .I had to take a medical retirement sold it lost 60% of the cost of machine and all the tools

Sponsored Links

02-06-2010, 03:34 PM	#74
nakovalnja1976 Newbie Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Moskou Posts: 1	The Regard, liked the forum!

02-22-2010, 12:30 PM	#75
Bmr4life Quarry Creeper Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Atlanta Posts: 326	$20K, that's nuts for just hobby stuff. Even $2500 is a lot. There's got to be a 100% manual mill for under $500.

04-19-2010, 06:30 AM	#77
pbarsamian Pebble Pounder Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Glenview Posts: 129	Also forgot some usefull links: www.cnczone.com www.littlemachineshop.com www.cdcotools.com www.use-enco.com www.mscindustrial.com www.grizzly.com Also if you do get the Taig, here a few things that are musts: 1) homing switches 2) Tool stop kit or tool collars to allow Z height indexing 3) Mach 3 4) ER Collet set and spindle kit 5) extra belts if you don't change pulleys out 6) Some way oil 7) something to bolt the machine down to. Picture of my current machine: http://api.photoshop.com/home_5ec78b...e167e0c6a577ef

05-29-2010, 09:49 AM	#78
freemachinist Pebble Pounder Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Flat Orlando Posts: 149	Well, I own a precision machine shop, and I can tell you honestly that a small mill is just that a small mill. You'll need a but load of patience. The mill can not take big cuts, the motors aren't even 1/4 horse power. Someone said it. Its not a $25,000 mill. I have 2 CNC at the shop. A sharp 1224 mini mill and a huge Chevalier 2040VMC. i refuse to buy a mill for my garage because they'll never meet my expectations in the garage. I'd rather go back to work and do what I need to do. But, if you're just a hobbyist, go for it. I have the Harbor Freight little lathe, its killer. I'm genuinely impressed with it. it sounds like you would best benefit from a Smithy. Lathe / mill combo. You can find them cheap. The Taig you're looking at, what is the interface? There is not computer attached to the machine. What is the software? Do you have a cam program or are you that good at math?

05-30-2010, 03:22 AM	#79
Tryker46 Rock Stacker Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Riverside Posts: 55	you made good points about the taig FM. jumping into a full on cnc machine can be problematic when you are trying to piece it together. i just got done going to my local jr college to learn cnc and it was frustrating to try and code my parts to fit in their work cube. my sugestion to anyone wanting to machine their own stuff(not opening a shop yet) is to get a manual mill and lathe. you can pick up the fundamentals and not drop alot of coin. i've got a micromark.com 7x14 that i use at home after reading about this class of machine tools on mini-lathe.com.

05-30-2010, 05:29 AM	#80
freemachinist Pebble Pounder Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Flat Orlando Posts: 149	I'm going to get in trouble for this. You really can't learn at a vocational school. I mean the CNC codes. There is "conversational" and "g code" I'm fluent in both. Took 10 years to get fluent though. Years ago I went to our local vocational school to try a learn a few more things about the business I bought. I learned nothing, in fact, the instructor refunded my money because he couldn't teach me anything. The other thing about learning at a vocational school, is their machines may be different. Either the language or the "canned" cycles. No 2 machines use the same "canned cycles". Its frustrating sometimes. Especially when you have to put a job into a different machine other than the one it was programmed for. I'll do machining for anyone at fair rates. PM me.

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