Is the TRX-4 really 'better' than the Axial gear?

[davemud]

Those 4 SCX10s I mentioned are all RTR kits. None of them has had a major component failure. My wraith is heavily modified. The TRX4 will not keep up with it and I dont expect it to. I do expect it to be as durable ad the SCX10 but it isnt.

All these TRX4s are still new too. Wear and tear is going to be an issue we just dont know how yet.

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[JatoTheRipper]

Originally Posted by davemud

Those 4 SCX10s I mentioned are all RTR kits. None of them has had a major component failure. My wraith is heavily modified. The TRX4 will not keep up with it and I dont expect it to. I do expect it to be as durable ad the SCX10 but it isnt.

All these TRX4s are still new too. Wear and tear is going to be an issue we just dont know how yet.

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There's RTRs and there's kits. People don't usually say "RTR kits" because that confuses things. Axial RTRs are notoriously weak out of the box. I have no idea how you would last one season on the stock electronics nor would the stock, plastic links last that long. If you're still using an of those stock parts then you don't wheel often and/or you go really easy on your trucks.

More moving parts = more problems. That's almost always true. You can't expect more features like on the TRX-4 and then demand less or the same amount of maintenance as on an SCX10.

[CoolRunning]

This is my personal Axial experience.

I have a Bomber RTR and SCX10.1 RTR. The Bomber apart from a Titan 21T and HW 1080 on 3S is stock (well decent Savox servos and 2 speed also - basically stock in regards to the chassis) and the SCX10.1 has steel gears, MIPs, a couple of lower homemade links and the same electronics/servo as the Bomber. They have been abused big time. I couldn't count how many times the SCX10.1 rolled, tumbled, endod, crashed, smashed and fell down rock faces and hills. It's done 100+ kilometres and spends half its life doing burnouts and being totally trashed. It had some good miles totally stock too without a problem.

The biggest annoyance were the driveshafts but they lasted absolutely ages with a single pin failure after all that abuse, the MIPs are clearly better but have only recently been installed. The gearbox chewed out plastic gears every 6 weeks on 3S bashing but my son is an animal with the truck. I ended up replacing the servo horn for peace of mind but it never failed.

I really thought I'd bought lemons when I came to RCC and read about how much money you 'needed' to dump into Axial trucks to make them reliable. Then I kept driving and driving and nothing ever failed or broke on the Bomber and I think differently now. I love my Bomber.

I also don't think you can blame the servos for burning out on the TRX4 as you cannot set the end points in the TX which is nuts even though it's 5 channel. Stupid oversight by Traxxas IMO. You have to make sure nothing is buzzing or binding. You also need to shift whilst moving so everything lines up too just like an Axial 2 speed.

By all reports, nothing is breaking with the TRX4. Gearbox, portals etc all are good. The motor is tried and tested. The ESC...hmm...that is clearly underspec'd and a HW 1080 will fill its spot by Christmas me thinks; the Traxxas ESC just gets too hot on 3S.

I just did a Bomber vs TRX4 vid and the TRX4 whilst lagging badly on every obstacle (or even totally failing) overall did really well once you slow down and almost clinically think about your lines. I'll be honest here that the Bomber is a far better crawler and makes light work of the stuff that causes fits for the TRX4. As a result, the TRX4 will get FAR hotter crawling the same path as a Bomber for example and if you're not watching temps in hot weather, things will cook. The TRX4 is very rewarding and enjoyable when you nail something but frustrating if it keeps just falling over and over and over on something that you think it should make easily.

[fr8cture]

Originally Posted by CoolRunning

I just did a Bomber vs TRX4 vid and the TRX4 whilst lagging badly on every obstacle (or even totally failing) overall did really well once you slow down and almost clinically think about your lines. I'll be honest here that the Bomber is a far better crawler and makes light work of the stuff that causes fits for the TRX4. As a result, the TRX4 will get FAR hotter crawling the same path as a Bomber for example and if you're not watching temps in hot weather, things will cook. The TRX4 is very rewarding and enjoyable when you nail something but frustrating if it keeps just falling over and over and over on something that you think it should make easily.

Comparing a wider rig on 2.2s is a unfair comparison.

[Meatwad]

It's another rtr and the driver will determine how capable it is.

When I got my trx-4 the rtr stuff got swapped out just like an axial rtr and it's been reliable for me.

Tune either one, put the controller in capable hands and both will do well.

[CoolRunning]

I totally disagree.

The Bomber has a larger pumpkin that is in fact closer to the ground; it even has less axle height than the TRX4, noticeably lower quality rubber and collapsed foams. All it's got going for it is a measured 1/2" total of extra wheel height.

With all that against it, it walked all over the TRX4. So even with that extra 12mm of wheel, the pumpkin and axle wasn't as high as the TRX4.

The TRX4 advertises performance similar to if it was running 2.2 tyres. It's not like I put a dedicated Bomber crawler with TSL SS 2.2 XL G8's against it with CI foams and low gearing. It's a RTR Bomber with plastic links.

I think it's informative personally.

Originally Posted by fr8cture

Comparing a wider rig on 2.2s is a unfair comparison.

[Meatwad]

There's a reason classes are broken up mostly by tire size.

[CoolRunning]

But that was before RC portal axles became mainstream. It gives the rig the advantages of if they were running larger tyres and Traxxas markets them exactly as such. The Bomber has less grip with lower quality, half worn out tyres, terrible foams, plastic links and in fact less ground clearance overall even with larger tyres.

I agree the Bomber is 4cm wider and a touch longer and it's clearly got far better approach and departure angles. I'm not sure why it's not a fair comparison as most guys that aren't hardcore crawlers simply want to know if their new shiny truck can get over a rock their mate just drove over with ease...or why they have to work so hard at it.

It would not be fair to compared this truck against a SCX10.1 on 1.9s as the ground clearance difference would be markedly different. It's got more than a Bomber on 2.2's!

The classes will have to be adjusted to account for this as it's a game changer in regards to axle height and ground clearance.

[Meatwad]

Having portal axles doesn't bump up a c2 rig to c3. People have been running portals for awhile now, myself included.

The trx-4 isn't great box stock, it needs some tuning to be able to keep up with c2.

[fr8cture]

A Portal axle may have all that clearance but at the sacrifice of cog. I personally think its quite good out of the box but obviously needs some changes to get the cog lower.

[CoolRunning]

Just to be clear, I really like my TRX4. It's shiny load of fun with lots of cool features which I'm particularly enjoying. It definitely is top heavy and loves fall over if you get even the teeniest bit rushed with it. The Bomber can be finessed to the same degree but like a mallet you can quickly bash the object into submission so there are numerous ways to tackle an obstacle.

I will do a comparison to my SCX10.1 on 1.9 and 2.2s when my 2 speed eventually gets here...sometime in the distant future no doubt.

I just find it interesting that the Bomber isn't really talked about as a crawler but it's clearly better than my two crawlers.

[fr8cture]

Originally Posted by CoolRunning

Just to be clear, I really like my TRX4. It's shiny load of fun with lots of cool features which I'm particularly enjoying. It definitely is top heavy and loves fall over if you get even the teeniest bit rushed with it. The Bomber can be finessed to the same degree but like a mallet you can quickly bash the object into submission so there are numerous ways to tackle an obstacle.

I will do a comparison to my SCX10.1 on 1.9 and 2.2s when my 2 speed eventually gets here...sometime in the distant future no doubt.

I just find it interesting that the Bomber isn't really talked about as a crawler but it's clearly better than my two crawlers.

Alot of people crawl with their bombers. It's a great setup the trailing arms really help keep it stable.

[JSterrett]

Originally Posted by davemud

Those 4 SCX10s I mentioned are all RTR kits. None of them has had a major component failure. My wraith is heavily modified. The TRX4 will not keep up with it and I dont expect it to. I do expect it to be as durable ad the SCX10 but it isnt.

All these TRX4s are still new too. Wear and tear is going to be an issue we just dont know how yet.

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My $.02....

I'm not exactly an expert, but until recently I had a modified OG SCX10 Honcho, completely stock RTR SCX10 G6 Falken, SCX10 II kit, RR10 Bomber kit, modified RTR Wraith, and most recently my TRX-4.

My TRX-4 got a new servo (lovin all the butthurt over an RTR servo BTW ) and some Gmade wheels (Still rollin stock tires and foams).

IMO, the TRX-4 was vastly superior overall to both my SCX10's.... I say "was" because both trucks got sold shortly after buying the TRX-4

My 10.2 kit and TRX-4 are about the same level of capability, IMO, although in different ways.

My Bomber (kit) outdoes them both in everything but turning radius, lol. But it's really a totally different animal....

Wraith is still a work in progress.... so I can't really weigh in with a comparison on that one...

As for durability, I've had zero issues after quite a few crawling sessions, and one Recon G6 event. I've been pretty rough on the TRX-4 too, trying to really get a good idea of how durable it really is. AKAIK, there were 4 TRX-4s at the G6, I know for sure my truck and 2 of the others made it through the event just fine...

[davemud]

Originally Posted by JatoTheRipper

Axial RTR and reliability in the same sentence. That's funny right there. How many Axial RTRs have you owned?

My Wraith isnt stock. As I said above I run with 4 box stock SCX10s ranging from 6 months to 3 years old. No major component failures on any of them. They all finish every run. So far the TRX4 gets carried back to the car every time. So many guys say everything has to be upgraded on the SCX10. Thats not true in our experience. You have the option to upgrade the servo on the SCX10 but you dont have to. The TRX4 must have a stronger more robust servo onstalled just to use it. Thats a repair not an upgrade. Neither Traxxas or the RC industry understand the actual definition of quality or product design review verification and validation. They also trained hobbiest to buy defective product and gladly upgrade it just to use it. Horizon has far better customer service at least. My TRX4 is for sale after 5 hours of dissapointing use.

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[malickie]

Originally Posted by davemud

My Wraith isnt stock. As I said above I run with 4 box stock SCX10s ranging from 6 months to 3 years old. No major component failures on any of them. They all finish every run. So far the TRX4 gets carried back to the car every time. So many guys say everything has to be upgraded on the SCX10. Thats not true in our experience. You have the option to upgrade the servo on the SCX10 but you dont have to. The TRX4 must have a stronger more robust servo onstalled just to use it. Thats a repair not an upgrade. Neither Traxxas or the RC industry understand the actual definition of quality or product design review verification and validation. They also trained hobbiest to buy defective product and gladly upgrade it just to use it. Horizon has far better customer service at least. My TRX4 is for sale after 5 hours of dissapointing use.

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I honestly have no clue in hell how your still running a completely stock SCX10, their Servo is utter garbage, at least they have been the past year. The one gear in the TSX45 is a Plastic gear in their stock setups and unless your extremely gentle on the rig, it strips darn near overnight, no different than the TRX4, minus the fact that the TRX4 Servo is Full Metal, though highly under powered. So Yes, IMO the SCX10 has the same Servo Failure that is a MUST Upgrade or just sit back and enjoy stripping a Plastic gear over and over again and waiting for Axial to ship out a new servo, same as the TRX4. Also I can say that I have completely smoked a Stock Axial AE-5 more than once, for no apparent reason, same goes for the motor, all of that happened within a Month of owning the Axial vehicle. The Stock TRX4 ESC and Motor on the other hand seem to be holding up quite well in a lot of people's rigs.

So to say Stock electronics in an Axial do Not NEED to be replaced is a bit of an understatement if you are running hard.

All of this is to say I have heard and read about more Axial Stock Electronics issues than I have the TRX4 YET. I say yet, because it is honestly still too new to have seen all the Electronics issues that may pop up.

[CoolRunning]

My stock Tactic servo from my bomber is running is my Yeti still after 8 months. It's been driven absolutely miles, had loads of crashes and rolls; the thing has hit trees and rocks and roots, been totally submerged and fires up great. It's not a very exciting servo but even a fancy 400+oz servo isn't an exciting thing TBBH. They are something we must unfortunately buy and if something does the job ok and doesn't die, all the power to it IMO. Not saying they are in any way good though! lol

Dave that is unfortunate! I agree the stock servo is way underpowered but apart from some teething issues, the TRX4 seems like a well built and capable truck. I believe I will requires a new ESC sooner than later and I'll grab a Savox waterproof servo as they are available here but I think the rest should be ok. I'd love the aftermarket to come out with mounts for mini or standard size shift servos and I feel I need a new radio with end points for the shift channels but overall it's a pretty impressive truck considering the very shiny looking weight up high.

My Axials did need new electronics simply because 2S was too slow and things got warm even at 2S speeds. Brushed electronics aren't that expensive thankfully.

[Scrap]

In one word: Hell YES!

I haven't bought an Axial RTR but I've got a few that are build from kits. 2 SCX10 and a Wraith.

No Axial RTRs so can't really say about the electronics but I had about 8 hours of fun with the original Traxxas servo. Not great but not terrible.

Now as for the axials...

SCX10:
The plastic links are garbage. The link ends are garbage. The steering geometry is garbage. The battery tray is located in absolutely the wrong place. The shocks leak like crazy. The motor is in the wrong place and adds to the horrible torque twist.

Wraith:
The plastic links are garbage. The link ends are garbage. The battery is in the wrong place. The shocks can't hold oil. The axle trusses locate the axles incorrectly. The axles are not centered on the truck FFS. The rear axle shaft has to be ground down to make the lockout fit properly.

Both Axial trucks suffer from horrendous torque twist which the TRX4 has only in a minute quantity.

So far I'm very happy with the Traxxas.

[Col_Sanders]

Out of the box, the TRX is a fun trail machine. Serious crawling performance is hurt by the fact that the body weighs nearly 2 pounds and it is enormous. Swap out the body and rear bumper and it does much better. Add some weight up front and down low and it starts to shine. I personally don't consider the servo to be that big of a deal. I cant stand running any RTR servos...They are always slower and weaker than I like.

Originally Posted by davemud

My Wraith isnt stock. As I said above I run with 4 box stock SCX10s ranging from 6 months to 3 years old. No major component failures on any of them. They all finish every run. So far the TRX4 gets carried back to the car every time. So many guys say everything has to be upgraded on the SCX10. Thats not true in our experience. You have the option to upgrade the servo on the SCX10 but you dont have to. The TRX4 must have a stronger more robust servo onstalled just to use it. Thats a repair not an upgrade. Neither Traxxas or the RC industry understand the actual definition of quality or product design review verification and validation. They also trained hobbiest to buy defective product and gladly upgrade it just to use it. Horizon has far better customer service at least. My TRX4 is for sale after 5 hours of dissapointing use.

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I have never seen so much whining over a servo. And how your buddies could be driving "stock" SCX10s around "for years" with plastic transmission gears, floppy noodle plastic links, sloppy rod ends, and crappy steering servos is beyond me. The only Tactic servo that I ever had last more than a couple packs was in a stock TF2. I like Axial...I currently own three 10.2s and what once was a Deadbolt, but straight out of the box, they are not perfect.

The TRX has a better chassis, better shocks, better links, more clearance, and the locking diffs and 2 speed are fun. This comes at the expense of higher center of gravity, more weight, and more moving parts (which are potential failure points) but the drivetrain seems pretty beefy.

The SCX10.2 has lower center of gravity, still has pretty good clearance, tons of aftermarket support, and is much easier to work on.

RIGHT NOW my 10.2s out perform my TRX, but they have much more money tied up in them along with more time tuning and driving.