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Thread: Does adding brass affect the Hill Hold Brake?

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Old 03-18-2019, 06:03 PM   #1
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Default Does adding brass affect the Hill Hold Brake?

So after a long deep freeze this winter I had my TRX4 Bronco out yesterday for the first time since last fall. Over the winter I added some nice Samix Brass to front end, a little to the back, plus some SSD steel wheels. Anyway the rig now comes in at 8 lbs even.

I had the truck in mode 5 (Crawler Mode) and noticed the “hill hold” did not hold the truck after stopping on an incline. I was testing out the new inclinometer on the Traxxas app. Anyway the truck rolled back down when I released the throttle. I know “hill hold” worked fine last fall, so is it the added weight that is causing this? Is there something else I should do or check? I’m new to crawling, but Hill Hold is kind of an important deal is it not?
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Old 03-18-2019, 06:07 PM   #2
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Default Re: Does adding brass affect the Hill Hold Brake?

Mine is almost 12 pounds and holds just fine...it will flip before the wheels turn. I'm not running stock electronics though, but I would redo your esc settings.

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Old 03-18-2019, 08:30 PM   #3
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Default Re: Does adding brass affect the Hill Hold Brake?

Wow, that's good to know the additional weight is not an issue. I will have to mess with it more when I get a chance. Thanks.
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Old 03-18-2019, 08:34 PM   #4
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Default Re: Does adding brass affect the Hill Hold Brake?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncoiler View Post
So after a long deep freeze this winter I had my TRX4 Bronco out yesterday for the first time since last fall. Over the winter I added some nice Samix Brass to front end, a little to the back, plus some SSD steel wheels. Anyway the rig now comes in at 8 lbs even.

I had the truck in mode 5 (Crawler Mode) and noticed the “hill hold” did not hold the truck after stopping on an incline. I was testing out the new inclinometer on the Traxxas app. Anyway the truck rolled back down when I released the throttle. I know “hill hold” worked fine last fall, so is it the added weight that is causing this? Is there something else I should do or check? I’m new to crawling, but Hill Hold is kind of an important deal is it not?

Does it seem like its activating but not holding the truck? Or just not activating at all?

Check that the light on the ESC returns to solid green when you idle the throttle. You might need to adjust that if not - I haven't had to adjust it before but I've noticed mine is starting to need an adjustment as sometimes the ESC isn't showing a proper return to full idle by letting the trigger back to neutral.

If it does activate but it's weak, the only thing you really can do is make sure you're in first gear as the torquier ratio will allow the motor to hold better. There's no adjustment for crawl brake strength on the stock ESC, but if the feature is important to you and you want to improve it, that hobbywing 1080 ESC is affordable and has a much better brake with full customizability. Or any brushless setup.

Page 18 of the manual has info about calibrating the ESC: https://traxxas.com/sites/default/fi...-OM-EN-R01.pdf

Last edited by jessedacri; 03-18-2019 at 08:41 PM.
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Old 03-18-2019, 10:12 PM   #5
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Default Re: Does adding brass affect the Hill Hold Brake?

Excellent info Jesse, I will check it out. Iím not sure if itís activating or not, itís still winter and quite cold so I wasnít out for very long.

Also I did look through my manual before making this post and apparently missed all the info on recalibration. Thanks for pointing that out.
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Old 03-19-2019, 05:40 PM   #6
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Default Re: Does adding brass affect the Hill Hold Brake?

OK so I had a chance to do more testing today. I’d say the hill hold brake is working, but not sure up to what incline it should work. For example testing today it will hill hold the Bronco on a board up to about 27 degrees incline, once I lift the top of the board up a little increasing the incline past that the Bronco slow and steady rolls backwards. Also the green LED stays on the entire time once I release the throttle so I think that’s doing what it’s supposed to do, and the signal is good etc and not cutting out.

I also tested it on smallish rocks in the yard that are about the size of my rig, and it holds fine but I think that’s because the size of the rocks are keeping the angles down and most of the time two wheels are still on the ground while two are on the rock.

So I guess my concern is if the hill hold should hold my Bronco steady at 30 degrees or more on a board (which would simulate a large rock)? When I think about it, I drove it last year before I had the App and inclinometer etc so I may never have tried driving it up a propped up board at that incline. I really have not driven it much.

One thing I didn’t do was a XL-5 HV calibration as outlined in page 18 of the manual. I hate messing with something out of fear of screwing it up. However if this hill hold should work better than it is I think I have to try that calibration. Any thoughts?
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Old 03-19-2019, 05:44 PM   #7
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Default Re: Does adding brass affect the Hill Hold Brake?

Educate me please.

Isnt the idea to have less weight to rockcrawl? I know more up front helps pick you up and over things. But at what point is all this BRASS candy too much? Im not being a smart ass. I just keep seeing people drop how heavy there rigs are like its a status update. All you all on the brass monkey or what's the dealeo?
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Old 03-19-2019, 05:51 PM   #8
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Default Re: Does adding brass affect the Hill Hold Brake?

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Originally Posted by BIGW0RM View Post
Educate me please.

Isnt the idea to have less weight to rockcrawl? I know more up front helps pick you up and over things. But at what point is all this BRASS candy too much? Im not being a smart ass. I just keep seeing people drop how heavy there rigs are like its a status update. All you all on the brass monkey or what's the dealeo?
Weight low as possible makes the center of gravity as low as possible which helps prevent rollovers and such, something the defender body really suffers from (top heavy). The standard battery location is also quite high.

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Old 03-19-2019, 06:04 PM   #9
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Default Re: Does adding brass affect the Hill Hold Brake?

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Originally Posted by MODC View Post
Weight low as possible makes the center of gravity as low as possible which helps prevent rollovers and such, something the defender body really suffers from (top heavy). The standard battery location is also quite high.

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I totally understand getting the weight lower part. I guess I feel like I keep seeing rigs with enough brass to accomplish that and THEN SOME. And I mean THEN SOME.

I have the TRX4 bronco and can see adding some weight for sure. But all 4 corners, brass beef tubes, drag links, etc. seems excessive.

It just seems like its a thing to slap as much brass as you can on a rig and boost about how fat your ride is...

Im not hating guys. It looks cool. I just wondered and wanted to hear from from those who do it. Not hating on anyone about it. Im simply asking to understand.

No offense to anyone meant.
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Old 03-19-2019, 06:31 PM   #10
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Default Re: Does adding brass affect the Hill Hold Brake?

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Originally Posted by BIGW0RM View Post
I totally understand getting the weight lower part. I guess I feel like I keep seeing rigs with enough brass to accomplish that and THEN SOME. And I mean THEN SOME.



I have the TRX4 bronco and can see adding some weight for sure. But all 4 corners, brass beef tubes, drag links, etc. seems excessive.



It just seems like its a thing to slap as much brass as you can on a rig and boost about how fat your ride is...



Im not hating guys. It looks cool. I just wondered and wanted to hear from from those who do it. Not hating on anyone about it. Im simply asking to understand.



No offense to anyone meant.
No offense taken at all, mine also has the traxxas lift and 2.2's which are on the larger side. I am also the first to admit that adding the lift and big tires makes the trx-4 perform god awful, and I do mean...horrible .. lol. Wieght makes a huge difference

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Old 03-19-2019, 07:25 PM   #11
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Default Re: Does adding brass affect the Hill Hold Brake?

Quote:
Originally Posted by BIGW0RM View Post
I totally understand getting the weight lower part. I guess I feel like I keep seeing rigs with enough brass to accomplish that and THEN SOME. And I mean THEN SOME.

I have the TRX4 bronco and can see adding some weight for sure. But all 4 corners, brass beef tubes, drag links, etc. seems excessive.

It just seems like its a thing to slap as much brass as you can on a rig and boost about how fat your ride is...

Im not hating guys. It looks cool. I just wondered and wanted to hear from from those who do it. Not hating on anyone about it. Im simply asking to understand.

No offense to anyone meant.
Should start your own thread about it instead of dumping all over OPs thread. Just sayin....
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Old 03-19-2019, 09:45 PM   #12
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Default Re: Does adding brass affect the Hill Hold Brake?

Somebody is offended I feel...^^^
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Old 03-19-2019, 09:58 PM   #13
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Default Re: Does adding brass affect the Hill Hold Brake?

Quote:
Originally Posted by BIGW0RM View Post
I totally understand getting the weight lower part. I guess I feel like I keep seeing rigs with enough brass to accomplish that and THEN SOME. And I mean THEN SOME.

I have the TRX4 bronco and can see adding some weight for sure. But all 4 corners, brass beef tubes, drag links, etc. seems excessive.

It just seems like its a thing to slap as much brass as you can on a rig and boost about how fat your ride is...

Im not hating guys. It looks cool. I just wondered and wanted to hear from from those who do it. Not hating on anyone about it. Im simply asking to understand.

No offense to anyone meant.

I think you can definitely go overkill but it also depends on what you want out of your truck. My bronco has SSD brass portal covers up front and Samix brass shock spring retainers (mainly so they don't pop off like stock) and that's it. Gmade steel beadlocks help too, but other than that and the low CG battery tray the truck is stock and I feel like I can climb up a vertical rock wall without lifting the front tires. It performs really nicely.

Weight helps the tires hook up too though, some people may just be tuning for different outcomes than you or I. Or tons of weight down low to account for a roof rack full of scale accessories and a spare tire. If I was running any of that I'd be adding brass a lot more readily.
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Old 03-19-2019, 10:09 PM   #14
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Default Re: Does adding brass affect the Hill Hold Brake?

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Originally Posted by rattmobbins View Post
Should start your own thread about it instead of dumping all over OPs thread. Just sayin....
Whoa buddy. I simply asked a question and mostly based off the 2nd post. 12lbs is one big rig.



Last edited by BIGW0RM; 03-19-2019 at 10:37 PM.
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Old 03-19-2019, 10:16 PM   #15
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Default Re: Does adding brass affect the Hill Hold Brake?

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Originally Posted by MODC View Post
No offense taken at all, mine also has the traxxas lift and 2.2's which are on the larger side. I am also the first to admit that adding the lift and big tires makes the trx-4 perform god awful, and I do mean...horrible .. lol. Wieght makes a huge difference

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That totally makes more sense. Jacking it up isnt necessarily making it a crawler in my thinking. So needing that extra weight for 2nd gear and a lift kit makes a lot more sense to me. I totally get that then. Thank you.

So the stock truck is 6lbs. With a lift and big 2.2's you must have 4-5lbs of brass on it? Id think that sucker would handle on RAILS in 2nd gear WOT... That would be cool at that height and size!
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Old 03-19-2019, 10:24 PM   #16
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Default Re: Does adding brass affect the Hill Hold Brake?

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Originally Posted by BIGW0RM View Post
That totally makes more sense. Jacking it up isnt necessarily making it a crawler in my thinking. So needing that extra weight for 2nd gear and a lift kit makes a lot more sense to me. I totally get that then. Thank you.



So the stock truck is 6lbs. With a lift and big 2.2's you must have 4-5lbs of brass on it? Id think that sucker would handle on RAILS in 2nd gear WOT... That would be cool at that height and size!
I'm almost positive it came to 11.6 pounds, with battery and the heavily weighted wheels which I don't always run. I built it for crawling more then anything else, and works a whole lot better with the weight then without. I also like the tire flex and traction it gets...lol

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Old 03-19-2019, 10:27 PM   #17
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Default Re: Does adding brass affect the Hill Hold Brake?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncoiler View Post
OK so I had a chance to do more testing today. I’d say the hill hold brake is working, but not sure up to what incline it should work. For example testing today it will hill hold the Bronco on a board up to about 27 degrees incline, once I lift the top of the board up a little increasing the incline past that the Bronco slow and steady rolls backwards. Also the green LED stays on the entire time once I release the throttle so I think that’s doing what it’s supposed to do, and the signal is good etc and not cutting out.

I also tested it on smallish rocks in the yard that are about the size of my rig, and it holds fine but I think that’s because the size of the rocks are keeping the angles down and most of the time two wheels are still on the ground while two are on the rock.

So I guess my concern is if the hill hold should hold my Bronco steady at 30 degrees or more on a board (which would simulate a large rock)? When I think about it, I drove it last year before I had the App and inclinometer etc so I may never have tried driving it up a propped up board at that incline. I really have not driven it much.

One thing I didn’t do was a XL-5 HV calibration as outlined in page 18 of the manual. I hate messing with something out of fear of screwing it up. However if this hill hold should work better than it is I think I have to try that calibration. Any thoughts?
Something doesnt sound right to me. The stock ESC can handle a few more lbs for sure. I would wonder about MODC 12lb rig. But a couple pounds on a TRX4 sounds like nothing. Im willing to bet your ESC is going out. The traxxas ones all seem to do odd things before they go out in my experience. Id try to reprogram. If that doesn't help. The solution is below. Good luck!

Here is a how to video.
https://traxxas.com/support/Programm...-Speed-Control

If that doesnt work, I would highly recommend you obtain a hobbywing 1080WP.

You get a programmer that makes everything SO much easier and it has so many settings you can change. It makes a HUGE difference.

https://www.amazon.com/Hobbywing-Ele.../dp/B01MQGUS38

It is SO worth the money.

Last edited by BIGW0RM; 03-19-2019 at 10:44 PM.
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Old 03-19-2019, 10:33 PM   #18
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Default Re: Does adding brass affect the Hill Hold Brake?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MODC View Post
I'm almost positive it came to 11.6 pounds, with battery and the heavily weighted wheels which I don't always run. I built it for crawling more then anything else, and works a whole lot better with the weight then without. I also like the tire flex and traction it gets...lol

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That looks bad ass man. I like the simple clean lines, rock lights and wheels. That looks like it would mow small kids down! Nice Bronco.
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Old 03-20-2019, 06:53 AM   #19
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Default Re: Does adding brass affect the Hill Hold Brake?

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Originally Posted by Uncoiler View Post
I added some nice Samix Brass to front end, a little to the back, plus some SSD steel wheels. ... and noticed the ďhill holdĒ did not hold the truck after stopping on an incline.
To answer your basic question, yes - adding weight will affect drag brake and hill hold simply as the motor has to work harder. If it's not a strong drag brake to begin with, added weight will make it worse.

Is it rolling quickly or slowly? If it's not holding and rolling slowly, the ESC apparently cannot provide enough drag brake for the weight of the vehicle. If it's going quick and all the settings are correct, then something is going south in the ESC most likely.
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Old 03-20-2019, 05:46 PM   #20
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Default Re: Does adding brass affect the Hill Hold Brake?

Alrighty, thanks everybody for their input, itís much appreciated.

It warmed up some today so I did some more testing after work which included a calibration of the ESC. Itís funny because when I read the manual I thought Iím bound to screw this up. Then I see the video in the link above on how to do it, and itís really very simple. LOL Gotta love You-Tube.

Anyway the calibration didnít make any diference but at least it elliminated that possabilty. I now feel the truck is fine and that the hill hold works good until I get all 4 wheels on an incline pushing 30 degress and thats about itís limit in stock form. At that point it will slowly roll back on itís own. Itís just that i have seen vids of other TRX4ís with a hold on a steeper incline, but how do I know they arenít running a Hobbywing 1080 WP.

So quick question about the HW 1080, again this is all new to me. I have installed the Traxxas Bronco lights package (both rock and body lights), also the Amazon 225K? steering servo, and traxxas BEC. Is installing and programming the 1080 fairly straight forward and compatible with these other componants I have, or is it potentially opening a can of worms?
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