ESC Programing VS Link TQi Profiles

[CTYankee]

I may upgrade to the HW 1080 ESC. However I like having modes for different uses: Crawl, Trail, Bashing, and Training (slow for my son). The ESC can be programed to do each, but no easy way to switch between them like the stock ESC.

Enter the TQi Link...

It can adjust the end points to create profiles that have different forward and reverse speeds as well as braking.

The two potential issues I see is it can't adjust the reverse function effect. ie on the stock ESC you can have different modes with no reverse (racing), reverse after two 'presses', or instant reverse.

The other and more problematic is drag brake.

Maybe the TQi/Link system can adjust those? Maybe they are settings only available in the ESC?

[dr frankenstyle]

I'm running the 1080 and TQi in my TRX. I have mine set-up with the multi-function knob controlling the brake/reverse. With it that way I can turn the drag-brake (and reverse speed) up and down on the fly. It doesn't separate them, and to change the run "mode" you have to hook up the program card to the 1080. But it will keep it from doin' nose-stands when you let off the throttle at faster speeds, and I can turn the drag-brake off if I want it to creep a little. Just an option.


jim

[CTYankee]

Thats a very good option. I could still use a profile to put it in slow mode for my son. It would just turn the speeds down.

How do you have reverse programed? Brake then reverse? No brake just reverse?

Typically I use traditional brake then reverse. I could leave it like that since it is best for faster speeds and doesn't seem to be an issue for general crawling or trail driving. Maybe a bit annoying having to do two motions when crawling usually uses just one, but this would allow me to have the modes(ish) of the stock ESC and the benefits of the 1080.

[svt923]

It may not make a difference depending on the driving skill of your son but there will be a difference in driving feel between slowing down the truck from the ESC profile vs using throttle endpoint. Reducing forward/reverse power at the ESC cuts the power to the motor in half across the whole throttle range while reducing endpoint is essentially the same as jamming a stick under the trigger so you can't pull it back all the way. The low speed control will be better with the ESC power setting reduced.

If you really like the ability to switch driving modes by pressing a button on the ESC, Tekin controllers have customizable profiles that can be changed in a similar way to the stock ESC.

[amigaman]

Originally Posted by svt923

...Reducing forward/reverse power at the ESC cuts the power to the motor in half across the whole throttle range while reducing endpoint is essentially the same as jamming a stick under the trigger so you can't pull it back all the way.....

That's not correct.
EPA setting always stretches the full lever action to reduced "servo" action.
So by setting EPA to simulate Training Mode you do exact the same, get the exact same result and have the same trade offs.
Check it with a servo if you don't believe me...


The only thing is: The training mode on stock XL5s is set in a few seconds and can't be set on the Tx, so it is safe to use for Kids that tend to fiddle on the controls. And setting EPA on a non-BT-Tx is a pita.
For using a 1080 there is no way else as to set EPA on the Tx, but the results are the same.


@CTYankee
There's no way to set up special ESC functions on non-TRX-ESCs, not even the Castle based.
But i've seen people having a pigtail of the program plug hanging out the truck so they can connect the prog card while on trail.
That's not really on the fly like with the App but the best you can get.



You just need to look for

- fiddling on the controls or with the mobile phone may change the desired settings.
- you need to set up 100% both directions to calibrate the ESC.

[svt923]

Originally Posted by amigaman

That's not correct.
EPA setting always stretches the full lever action to reduced "servo" action.
So by setting EPA to simulate Training Mode you do exact the same, get the exact same result and have the same trade offs.
Check it with a servo if you don't believe me...

Either way, the radio is still outputing it's signal for 0-50% throttle which means each of the signal steps equates to a larger jump in motor speed compared to lowering the power at the ESC and using the full range of 0-100% throttle signal to get to that reduced motor speed.

[CTYankee]

Thanks everyone. He is 3 so I’m not too concerned with performance. He is happy to drive my buggy in random patterns and into the bushes. He mostly enjoys watching me drive.

Seems like I could get the job done with the stock radio, Bluetooth module/link app, and any esc. I just need to decide if the 1080 is worth the slight trade off in features.

[amigaman]

Originally Posted by svt923

Either way, the radio is still outputing it's signal for 0-50% throttle which means each of the signal steps equates to a larger jump in motor speed compared to lowering the power at the ESC and using the full range of 0-100% throttle signal to get to that reduced motor speed.

Each "step" of the signal is about 1/1023th of the available way, because that's what the ADC on the pot in the tx can do.
I don't really think you can distinguish 1/10th percent of motor power on a rc car.
The resolution on the rf link and the PWM generation in the rx is unknown to me. I guess Traxxas did what the hardware gave them and used 10 to 16 bit channel data and at least 10 bit PWM.

So, yes, technically you're lowering resolution, but still: even on setting the Tx to 1% EPA will still give you at least 10 steps, so you have 10 steps resolution between "does not revolve" to "does almost but still not revolve".
On usual Training mode 50% resolution is approximately halved, but still at least 500 steps. Can you position and hold the throttle on a single 1/500th step? I bet not.

Also, what do you think how the ESC limits power in training mode?
It takes 0-100% servo input and translates that to 0-50% Motor PWM.
Where's the difference in taking 0-50% servo input, putting out 0-50% PWM?
You're losing resolution, either on throttle pot ADC input or on rx timer pulse measuring, nothing else.

@CTYankee
the 1080 definitely is worth the change, especially the better BEC, the unhearable PWM frequency and smoother control.

[JatoTheRipper]

Originally Posted by dr frankenstyle

I'm running the 1080 and TQi in my TRX. I have mine set-up with the multi-function knob controlling the brake/reverse. With it that way I can turn the drag-brake (and reverse speed) up and down on the fly. It doesn't separate them, and to change the run "mode" you have to hook up the program card to the 1080. But it will keep it from doin' nose-stands when you let off the throttle at faster speeds, and I can turn the drag-brake off if I want it to creep a little. Just an option.


jim

How did you get the 1080 to work with the multi-function knob? Please explain!

[BadBeard]

Originally Posted by JatoTheRipper

How did you get the 1080 to work with the multi-function knob? Please explain!

I believe all the fancy settings and multi function knob control are between the tqi transmitter and the Traxxas receiver. I use these features but with multiple different motor and ESC combinations. Doesn't matter if it's brushed or brushless, the signals going out of the Rx to the ESC don't care what they're talking to. At least this has been my experience with the tqi system so far.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[dr frankenstyle]

Hey Jato' , BadBeard is correct. It's all done with the Link set-up in the TQi. You go thru the "drive effects" to the braking adjustment and select the multi-function knob to control it. It also controls the reverse speed at the same percentage. You lose the on-the-fly control of the TSM, but c'mon .... do you really need TSM for crawlin'? I like having mine set up this way, it lets me adjust the drag-brake on-the-fly and also lets me reduce the reverse top speed too. Try it, if you don't like it you can switch it back just as easily ... that is .... IF you have the Link enabled TQi radio set. Sorry for the Sport guys.

jim

[CTYankee]

Originally Posted by dr frankenstyle

You go thru the "drive effects" to the braking adjustment and select the multi-function knob to control it. It also controls the reverse speed at the same percentage.

At full drag brake reverse is also full speed?

I would expect all running modes are still available?

[amigaman]

It justs limits "reverse gas" travel, so you can make it have no reverse, slow reverse or full reverse (which is 50% speed on most ESCs).
As you're technically controlling the lever travel, the ESC will have less braking power, for the modes where pushing reverse after driving engages the brakes, and the second push (or after a wait) will drive backwards.

That is not what i know as drag brake, which is the braking power when you just let the throttle lever sit in the middle and the car just rolls.
That you can't control via Tx, because the throttle signal is at center, regardless of whatever setting you have active.
You could only go and program the ESC to have a specific amount of drag, which you can't do on the XL5, but on the 1080 you can.

[CTYankee]

Hmmmmm.....

Originally Posted by dr frankenstyle

I'm running the 1080 and TQi in my TRX. I have mine set-up with the multi-function knob controlling the brake/reverse. With it that way I can turn the drag-brake (and reverse speed) up and down on the fly. ...it will keep it from doin' nose-stands when you let off the throttle at faster speeds, and I can turn the drag-brake off if I want it to creep a little.

That suggests when the throttle is at neutral there is drag brake and how much is applied can be adjusted with the multi-function knob.


But this (and the TQi documentation) suggests that this setting does not control drag brake, only active braking (throttle lever pushed forward):

Originally Posted by amigaman

...the ESC will have less braking power, for the modes where pushing reverse after driving engages the brakes...

That is not what i know as drag brake, which is the braking power when you just let the throttle lever sit in the middle and the car just rolls.
That you can't control via Tx, because the throttle signal is at center, regardless of whatever setting you have active.

Jim,
when you are off the throttle it does engage drag brake? And you can adjust how much? ie if you were on a steep hill with multi-function at 100% and throttle at neutral, you could turn down the knob to reduce drag brake and the truck will start to roll faster/slower as you turn the knob back and forth?

What is your ESC brake setting? Drag brake setting?

Perhaps with drag brake set on the ESC it interacts with the brake power value the Tx is sending? When at neutral on the physical throttle the Tx may be sending a slight negative value for braking. So the ESC doesn't look to apply drag brake as it doesn't think the Tx is in neutral? Rather it applies the braking value it gets from the Tx?

The exact details of what is happening at the radio/Rx/ESC level are interesting, but ultimately I'm more interested in if it actually does apply adjustable drag brake when the throttle is in neutral. It could be one of those where I may not know why, but it works!

[amigaman]

Thats a bit misleading, as that second quote is from me...

I have that setup in my TRX4 trucks, and no, the MuFu knob can only control active braking (by limiting reverse EPA).
So it can not be used to losen the drag on a hill...

The TQi can only interact with the ESCs listed in the App, not even the Castle Versions of the Castle OEMs work, afaik. The 1080 definitely can't be influenced by the Tx.
Setting the MuFu knob to Brake level makes it control reverse EPA, nothing else.
Letting the throttle go still makes it give "center", regardless of MuFu setting: this only controls the sent level for full reverse on the lever.
Having the signal "center" makes the 1080 just apply the set up drag brake, getting the lever so that the Tx generates a bit of reverse level (enough to be out of the dead band setting of the 1080) changes this to a proportional brake level set by the brake mode and setting of the 1080.

[CTYankee]

Originally Posted by amigaman

Thats a bit misleading, as that second quote is from me.

Sorry, fixed that.

Thanks for clarifying the drag brake. I’ve got the info I need to figure out what’s best for my needs.

[CTYankee]

The HW Quicrun 880 may be what I need. Has a crawler mode via a switch. Also has a 4A BEC.

Not much About it that I can find. Anyone have experience?

[CTYankee]

Originally Posted by CTYankee

The HW Quicrun 880 may be what I need. Has a crawler mode via a switch. Also has a 4A BEC.

Not much About it that I can find. Anyone have experience?

Correction, the 860 had dip switches to change the vehicle mode. However the 880 does not seem to have those. The HW website still says, "The "Battery Type" and "Running Mode" can be programmed by jumpers. Battery Type: Lipo or NiMH.
Running Mode: Fwd/Br, Fwd/Rev/Br or Fwd/Rev (Fwd =Forward, Br=Brake, Rev=Reverse)." on the chart with them all, but I don't see the DIP switches on the 880 (or 1080 that the chart would imply also has switches).

[dr frankenstyle]

Originally Posted by CTYankee

Hmmmmm.....



That suggests when the throttle is at neutral there is drag brake and how much is applied can be adjusted with the multi-function knob.


But this (and the TQi documentation) suggests that this setting does not control drag brake, only active braking (throttle lever pushed forward):




Jim,
when you are off the throttle it does engage drag brake? And you can adjust how much? ie if you were on a steep hill with multi-function at 100% and throttle at neutral, you could turn down the knob to reduce drag brake and the truck will start to roll faster/slower as you turn the knob back and forth?

What is your ESC brake setting? Drag brake setting?

Perhaps with drag brake set on the ESC it interacts with the brake power value the Tx is sending? When at neutral on the physical throttle the Tx may be sending a slight negative value for braking. So the ESC doesn't look to apply drag brake as it doesn't think the Tx is in neutral? Rather it applies the braking value it gets from the Tx?

The exact details of what is happening at the radio/Rx/ESC level are interesting, but ultimately I'm more interested in if it actually does apply adjustable drag brake when the throttle is in neutral. It could be one of those where I may not know why, but it works!

OK, I'm not sure about all of the technical specifics of just exactly what is controlling what BUT my experience is that YES, sitting on a slope with the drag-brake holding the truck, if I turn down the knob, the truck WILL roll. I set the 1080 to 100 percent, which sets the maximum brake force that can be applied .... then the knob decides how much of the 100 percent IS applied. And the same percentage at the knob controls the amount of reverse that gets used (of the available max set) thru the 1080.
I've said it before ... I'm no expert, I'm old and my mind takes flight sometimes, but try it and see how it works for you ... it'll change back just as easily.


jim

[amigaman]

Originally Posted by dr frankenstyle

... BUT my experience is that YES, sitting on a slope with the drag-brake holding the truck, if I turn down the knob, the truck WILL roll....

It either started rolling from itself, or you held the brake (by pushing the lever) and released it (by reducing the setting, which could have been done by letting the lever go slowly towards the center position).

It all depends on gearing and setup of the ESC, weight, terrain and whatnot, though.

@CTYankee
The 1080 can be programmed by the supplied card (or the throttle setup procedure, which is tedious and error prone).
That's because it has a ton more settings that make it the go to part for crawlers.
The 1060 or 860dual with the switches just can be set up for the two or three options the switches give, no more no less.
Yes, it's easier to set up two jumpers or switches.
But: you can't control Lipo cutoff, Brake force, Drag brake force, PWM frequency and all the other gimmicks the 1080 has.
OK, the XL5 does not have those settings, too, so you're not losing anything, but you replaced the XL5 for what? To get something better.
Replacing it with what can do the same but is harder to control (App settings versus switches on the car) is not useful.