U4RC Current Class Specs/Rules

[Wheels7]

I don't know if this helps at all, but after being either powdercoated or painted black I don't think they look out of place. Here is some pics I just took of mine all painted up.

[jerry2575]

It does look better painted

[Mr Hyde]

Urs seem to mimmic 1:1 for sure, an exact copy actually.If scale is whatt there for how does a commonly used VP wraith style look more scale than this ???

[C*H*U*D]

In the spirit of scale, I'd hate to see comp style knuckle weights being used, but I have to agree that these look pretty good. They look no less scale to me than the stock knuckles.

[darkstar]

Originally Posted by Mr Hyde

Urs seem to mimmic 1:1 for sure, an exact copy actually.If scale is whatt there for how does a commonly used VP wraith style look more scale than this ???

The new style VP knuckles look like the Reid Racing knuckles, so it's getting better.

I do like the idea of the closed knuckle style design here.

[The Doc]

Originally Posted by Wheels7

I don't know if this helps at all, but after being either powdercoated or painted black I don't think they look out of place. Here is some pics I just took of mine all painted up.

This looks 1.1 scale to me......scratches, bent tie rod, holes in the tires, toe setting off, shocks sacked out, diff cover beat!, low air pressure, dirt all over it....All the signs of someone having too much fun. 1 thing missing though.......oil spots on the floor.

[Rockpiledriver]

I would have to agree that the D-lux knuckles are not really funny looking at all. But where to we draw the line? With allowing only one manufacturers product? Most knuckle weights do not look like these,which is what we don't want to see.

[TheAxialNut]

Originally Posted by Rockpiledriver

I would have to agree that the D-lux knuckles are not really funny looking at all. But where to we draw the line? With allowing only one manufacturers product? Most knuckle weights do not look like these,which is what we don't want to see.

I agree also, that these knuckles are 90% scale looking and I would vote them to be able to run. If they are able to house weights and still look scale then, that should satisfy the scale look while also adding an advantage to running these (weight-able) knuckles. I use alum. HR knuckles...they are ugly and not really scale looking at all, but thats what comes with the kit stock, and until I can afford to buy some other more scale ones they will have to do...

So IMO, the D-Lux part looks like it fits.

[Erik D_lux]

Originally Posted by C*H*U*D

In the spirit of scale, I'd hate to see comp style knuckle weights being used, but I have to agree that these look pretty good. They look no less scale to me than the stock knuckles.

Technically though these are not "comp style" knuckles, meaning that they were not designed for comp crawlers. The intention and design was based fully around Ultra4, hence the monster bearings. They just happened to work really well on comp crawlers too.

Originally Posted by Rockpiledriver

I would have to agree that the D-lux knuckles are not really funny looking at all. But where to we draw the line? With allowing only one manufacturers product? Most knuckle weights do not look like these,which is what we don't want to see.

This touches on what seems to be "unfair" to me. I think if you were going to judge my knuckles, make me prove that they are good enough for scale or whatever, then this must be done across the board for all manufacturers (only fair right?).

I feel that if I must prove that mine meet the standard when others, such as the HR XR knuckles (way out to lunch on the "scale factor") should also but they are automatically let in because they are a more common and already used.

Its really hard to follow rules when there are not specific ones to follow.

[axelsnapr]

Originally Posted by Erik D_lux

.........This touches on what seems to be "unfair" to me. I think if you were going to judge my knuckles, make me prove that they are good enough for scale or whatever, then this must be done across the board for all manufacturers (only fair right?).

I feel that if I must prove that mine meet the standard when others, such as the HR XR knuckles (way out to lunch on the "scale factor") should also but they are automatically let in because they are a more common and already used.

Eric, the intent of the rule is not to scrutinize every knuckle manufactured. Nor is it directed at the knuckles you are presenting to us. The intent was to keep (crescent moon) and or full COMP style modular weights out of U4RC racing. The only reason to see the knuckles you are referenicing is because we may not be "up to date" on the newer acceseries available and don't want to make a final judgement until we have heard all info fully.

We are not asking that you prove a "knuckle" for U4RC racing we are asking that you prove a "weighted knuckle". Since we don't have the resources to "tech" every knuckle made out there. We only addressed the area that had the most concern to us in reference to knuckles. Which would be weights.

U4RC will continually strive to work with racers and manufactures alike to bring the best experience for ALL to U4RC sanctioned races.


Its really hard to follow rules when there are not specific ones to follow.

We have tried to keep the rules as simple as possible. Every series we have to write more and more into the rules to keep the competition fair.

..........

[Erik D_lux]

Originally Posted by axelsnapr

We are not asking that you prove a "knuckle" for U4RC racing we are asking that you prove a "weighted knuckle". Since we don't have the resources to "tech" every knuckle made out there. We only addressed the area that had the most concern to us in reference to knuckles. Which would be weights.

I dont understand this part. Can you please explain?

Originally Posted by axelsnapr

We have tried to keep the rules as simple as possible. Every series we have to write more and more into the rules to keep the competition fair.

I understand the desire to keep the rules simple and I dont envy your position. If you want to keep things specific, I think you need specific rules. If you dont, then it just frustrates people and turns them away. I know this is why I dont participate in any sort of series like this.

Here is my analogy....

ME:
Officer, what is the speed limit of this road?

Officer:
There isnt one really, just be safe and keep it to a decent speed and you will be fine.

ME:
OK, so I am not sure what a decent speed is. I drive a 2014 Lambo and its pretty safe at 180mph, does that mean I can drive 180mph or does that mean I need to be safe at 30mph as if I were driving a 1970 Caddy?

Officer:
Just be safe, there is no speed limit.

So now I go 35mph just to be safe and I get pulled over. Officer writes me a ticket for not being safe and driving too fast. Now I am pissed. If he would have just been very specific and told me the speed limit was under 35mph, I could have easily just gone that specific speed or under.

Not having no speed limit for specific roads and getting speeding tickets is as crazy as having rules with no definitions. If you look back, thats what I specifically asked in my first post in here. I dont know and I am not sure if you guys know the actual problem with these knuckles. Is it the weight? Is it the scale aspect?

People have bought my parts and spent $100's of dollars on this mod just to be told that they may or may not be legal. I think it is only fair not to only manufactures but the people who race in this series to be specific. Youre considering giving people a ticket for $100's of dollars (literally) and their time for a fictitious speed limit that was made up on the spot that they could have easily avoided.

[BC Racing]

Post #1

Originally Posted by axelsnapr

***UPDATE***

UPDATED RULES AS OF MARCH 30, 2014

All classes: MOA are not allowed. Non-scale race-track style vehicles are not allowed. Battery must be chassis mounted, and hidden in a scale fashion. Electric powered vehicles only. No comp, short course, cut n shut, or pin tires allowed. A tire for the U4RC must be a scale looking tire (example: Axial Ripsaws), either a licensed replica, or a non-licensed replica. Rigs not meeting specific class specs will be placed in the fairest class possible at the judge’s discretion. Tech of the cars can happen anytime throughout the day. Heats will be 8 minutes and mains will be 10 minutes.

1.9 Trail: This class is for 1.9” tire clad vehicles that are box stock thru highly modified. Vehicle must be scale in appearance. Rim diameter must not exceed 1.9”at any point. No short course style rims allowed. Vehicles must have (2) solid axles. Weights on axle are not allowed. (Example c-hubs weights or stick on weights) Vehicles must have rail style, tube, or twin vertical plate chassis. This class requires the rig to have a scale body like your typical 1.9 “scale rig or TUFF Truck”. Wheelbase must not exceed 13” and track width must not exceed 10”.

1.9 Comp: This class is for 1.9” tire clad rigs that are highly modified and resemble full size race vehicles. Vehicle must be scale in appearance for rock-race style racing. This class includes rigs running plastic chassis and/or roll cages. Open to any shaft driven, non-moa axle configuration. Independent suspension is allowed. Weights on axle are not allowed. (Example c-hubs weights or stick on weights) Rim diameter must not exceed 1.9” at any point. Short course style rims are not allowed. Rail style, tub style and tube chassis’ are allowed. Wheelbase must not exceed 13” and track width must not exceed 11”. Rear steering is allowed. This is only class that has 8 minutes qualifiers and 8 minute mains. Due to size of batteries.

1.9 Trophy: This is a builder’s class. This class is for 1.9” tire clad Ultra4 style rigs that are highly modified and highly resemble full size rock race vehicles. This class only includes rigs running full metal roll cages or, a metal upper cage attached to a factory skid plate. Meaning no plastic chassis component allowed except skid plate. You can use a factory skid plate, such as a Twinhammer, Wraith, Scx10, or Wreckluse skid. You could also use the metal portion of an Exo Skid, but not any plastic pieces attached to it. Vehicle must be very scale in appearance. Open to shaft driven, non-moa axle configurations. Weights on axle are not allowed. (Example chubs weights or stick on weights) Single or double solid axle and non-factory independent suspensions (aka hand fab) are allowed. Rim diameter must not exceed 1.9” at any point. Short course style rims are not allowed. A tire for the U4RC must be a scale tire, either a licensed replica, or a non-licensed replica. Rail style and tube style chassis’ are allowed. Minimum overall chassis height of 4.5”. Wheelbase must not exceed 13” and track width must not 11”. Batteries cannot be in plain sight. Transmissions cannot be plain sight and wires should be hidden. You must have a driver and /or driver insert and driver must have a helmet. (NO ANIMATED CHARACTERS).

2.2 Comp (LIMITED): This class is for 2.2” tire clad vehicles that are box stock thru slightly modified. Vehicle must be scale in appearance for rock race style racing. This class includes rigs running plastic chassis, roll cages, and twin vertical plate chassis. Open to any shaft driven, non-moa axle configuration. Double solid axle only. Weights on axle are not allowed. (Example c-hubs weights or stick on weights) Short course style rims are not allowed. No Comp, short course, or pin tires allowed. A tire for this class must be a scale tire, either a licensed replica, or a non-licensed replica. It has to look like something you would see on a 1:1 trail, race, or street rig. Wheelbase must not exceed 14.5” and track width must not exceed 13”. Rear steering is allowed. Must have interior either the wraith or driver inserts. We would like to see drivers in the car, but we understand if it is your first race. (No Animated Characters)

2.2 Comp (OPEN): This class is for 2.2” tire clad vehicles that are slightly modified thru heavily modified. Vehicle must be scale in appearance for rock race style racing. This class includes rigs running plastic or metal chassis and/or roll cages. Open to any shaft driven, non-moa axle configuration. Double solid axle and IFS. Short course style rims are allowed only on the IFS. Weights on axle are not allowed. (Example chubs weights) No Comp, short course, or pin tires allowed. A tire for this class must be a scale tire, either a licensed replica, or a non-licensed replica. It has to look like something you would see on a 1:1 trail, race, or street rig. Wheelbase must not exceed 14.5” and track width must not exceed 13”. Rear steering is allowed. Must have interior either the wraith or driver inserts. We would like to see drivers in the car, but we understand if it is your first race. (No animated Character)

2.2 TROPHY:This is a builder’s class. This class is for 2.2” tire clad Ultra4 style rigs that are highly modified and highly resemble full size rock race vehicles. This class only includes rigs running full metal roll cages or, a metal upper cage attached to a factory skid plate. Meaning no plastic chassis component allowed except skid plate. You can use a factory skid plate, such as a Wraith, Scx10, or Wreckluse skid. You could also use the metal portion of an Exo Skid, but not any plastic pieces attached to it. Vehicle must be very scale in appearance. Open to shaft driven, non-moa axle configurations. Weights on axle are not allowed. (Example chubs weights or stick on weights) Single or double solid axle and non-factory independent suspensions (aka hand fab) are allowed. Rim diameter must not exceed 2.2” at any point. Short course style rims are not allowed. No comp, short course, cut n shut, or pin tires allowed. A tire for the U4RC must be a scale tire, either a licensed replica, or a non-licensed replica. Rail style and tube style chassis’ are allowed. Minimum overall chassis height of 4.5”. Wheelbase must not exceed 14.5” and track width must not exceed 12.5”.Batteries cannot be in plain sight. Transmissions cannot be plain sight and wires should be hidden. You must have a driver and /or driver insert and driver must have a helmet. (NO ANIMATED CHARACTERS).

HEAT FORMAT: We will take the top two from round 1. Round 2 we will take the top two. We will do a LCQ the top 2 to get into the final. This will work for 4- 20 cars. This could change if we don’t have enough cars for a class or too many.

TECH: Checking of the car can either been done at sign up, heat race, or after the main. Cars that don’t meet the class requirements will result in a DQ and no points will be rewarded. Tech will be performed by a U4RC official.

TURN MARSHAL: Everyone is asked to turn marshal unless you physically cannot do it. Turn marshaling is physical work and is hard to walk on the track. If you cannot turn marshal let us know at sign up. We also need track Marshals to watch the track to catch people cutting the track. Please when you are turn marshaling don’t be on your phone, taking picture, smoking, and drinking. Put cars back on the track in the tended direction of travel meaning don’t put the car on the track backwards.

-------------------------------------------------------------

[darkstar]

The way I understand his knuckles, they are not weighted by default, but can be weighted by using slugs. I'm sure the difference in weight between a set of Delrin knuckles, and a set of VP knuckles, is probably a few grams.

I run a set of VP "C"s and Knuckles.

[BC Racing]

It really doesn't matter to me...just saying.

[Erik D_lux]

Originally Posted by BC Racing

Post #1

So technically doesnt that mean that your knuckles are "weights on axle" since they weigh something? The only way your knuckles are not weights on the axle is if youre not running any.

Originally Posted by BC Racing

...

Now alot more people are illegal by this theory....

[doublej]

From a "Black and White" rules stand point - The Dlux knuckles themselve are legal to run. Per the wording:

"Weights on axle are not allowed. (Example c-hubs weights or stick on weights)"

It only says "added weights are illegal". So you could say that adding weight into the knuckle itself is against the rules, but a odd hole in the knuckle is going to look a lot stranger then a smooth black knuckle.

This is where even in SORRCA we have to be specific in everything we put in the rules - without doing this you could leave out your actual intent.

[Rockpiledriver]

What if we said this. Weighted knuckles must be of an integral weighted design. If the knuckle can still function with the weighted portion removed, it is not legal with the external weights attached.

[Hittman]

Personally I think it's rules and restrictions like this that are killing the hobby. What difference does it make if the knuckle is weighted or not? That person might have an advantage? Well guess what, that's life. The rig might do better, it might not. Not everyone's truck is going to be exactly the same and fit this cookie cutter shape you guys are tying to form. I would rather have a rig that performed great 1000x over a rig that was completely scale and to the exact specs.

To add to that, from every U4 racer I have talked to, and it has been said in this thread, an unweighted front end will do better than one with weights. So what does it matter if someone has weights? If everyone is saying you don't need the weights, then what does it hurt if someone runs them? After they run for a while they might see that they don't need them and change to a lighter setup.

Eliminating a vendors product from an entire section of this hobby is just silly. How do you expect the sport to progress without new products coming out and advancing? It's all fun and games to be as scale as possible, but sometimes you have to step back and remember we are playing with toy trucks. Loosen up a bit boys..

I don't speak my mind on these types of subjects too often, but I feel this new U4 section/rules section has gotten a bit out of hand. Scrutinize everything I have to say.. Makes no difference to me. As long as I got you to think for a second about how far you are taking this, I am happy.

Have a nice day

[Rockpiledriver]

Originally Posted by Hittman

Have a nice day

So I guess that's a no on my suggestion above in your opinion? From our perspective; we wrote weighted knuckles in, without having big non-scale looking weights hanging off the front.

These knuckles don't look like that, so as far as we are concerned, they are fine.

I must be confused as to what the issue at this point. But as always we do listen to people. That's why we are willing ok these. We LISTENED to what was brought up.

[Hittman]

Originally Posted by Rockpiledriver

So I guess that's a no on my suggestion above in your opinion? From our perspective; we wrote weighted knuckles in, without having big non-scale looking weights hanging off the front.

These knuckles don't look like that, so as far as we are concerned, they are fine.

I must be confused as to what the issue at this point. But as always we do listen to people. That's why we are willing ok these. We LISTENED to what was brought up.

My message was not intended for you. I was just simply expressing my thoughts and it happened to be after your post.

I do agree with your post though. I think that is a good point to draw the line. And it is fair to everyone