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06-10-2015, 11:09 AM | #1 |
Newbie Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: europe
Posts: 8
| MOW - Motor on wheel crawler
Hi guys, this project was for a long time on my mind. I always wanted to build a crawler with a wheel hub motor. Finally I found electric components which seem to suit. I have already tested servo driven wheels, which was quite problematic. Now I m going for brushless gimbal motors. So let's start with the setup. I decided to use brushless gimbal motors as they provide torque and direct drive at a small size. I was searching a long time for a ESC which can control these motors. You can't use normal brushless ESCs. I bought 2 of these special gimbal ESCs, 1 per axle. All of the parts for the axles are 3d printed. The axle is a simple aluminum tube. At the moment I'm testing the design, so it will take a few days until I m finished. However, I think it is time to share with you my design and maybe get some useful feedback. Here you can see the state of play: https://youtu.be/oREFFpP1Qxo |
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06-10-2015, 11:51 AM | #2 |
Pebble Pounder Join Date: Apr 2013 Location: Germany
Posts: 123
| Re: MOW - Motor on wheel crawler
Since years I'm thinking about MOW crawlers and never thought about gimbal motors. Great idea, looking forward to see how this will end up |
06-10-2015, 11:55 AM | #3 |
I wanna be Dave Join Date: May 2010 Location: The east coast
Posts: 2,599
| Re: MOW - Motor on wheel crawler
i know of several people who have been looking into this. from what i've hear the big challenge is sufficient torque without the benefit of gear reduction and control of the motors. how do you get motors to move together effectively if loading wheels separately? looking forward to someone showing a working model, even if it is just a proof of concept. |
06-10-2015, 12:06 PM | #4 |
Rock Stacker Join Date: Jun 2014 Location: Middle of No where
Posts: 71
| Re: MOW - Motor on wheel crawler
Subbed I want to see this
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06-10-2015, 12:47 PM | #5 |
owner, Holmes Hobbies LLC Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Volt up! Gear down!
Posts: 20,290
| Re: MOW - Motor on wheel crawler
I'll be interested to see how they work for you, its a really cool project and I've never committed myself to action. The high resistance of gimble motors will be your main enemy when trying to squeeze out power. The basic difficulty is because of low rpms. A regular drivetrain will have about 35:1 reduction. To have a motor with equal torque without this reductions requires equal terminal resistance and 35x lower KV. So a 3500kv system is now 100kv. You can extend the motor length 35 times, or increase motor diameter about 6 fold. Or a combination of the two that nets a 35 times increase in flux gap area. RPM reduction must always be compensated for with motor size, specifically the flux gap area. The issue is illustrated nicely in the ebike world. A high rpm motor (astroflight 3220) that will sustain 10,000 watts forever with airflow is 4 pounds plus two pounds of reduction system. A hub motor (cromotor v3) that will sustain the same for only 5 minutes with airflow is 24 pounds. Your application is smaller, but will face the same challenges. Keep at it and don't be discouraged by my math. At the end of the day, only real world testing will prove results. I've always analyzed myself into a corner and could never make the jump to reality. |
06-10-2015, 02:29 PM | #6 |
Rock Crawler Join Date: Feb 2014 Location: ?
Posts: 747
| Re: MOW - Motor on wheel crawler
I hope you work it out. That was one of the first things I asked about when I joined this forum and got a much less technical reply. I'm still not savvy enough to know WTF JRH is talking about half the time but I trust him |
06-10-2015, 04:17 PM | #7 |
owner, Holmes Hobbies LLC Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Volt up! Gear down!
Posts: 20,290
| Re: MOW - Motor on wheel crawler
My understanding of motors is always changing, so my response on the same subject will vary a lot |
06-10-2015, 09:29 PM | #8 |
Rock Crawler Join Date: Feb 2014 Location: ?
Posts: 747
| Re: MOW - Motor on wheel crawler |
06-10-2015, 09:38 PM | #9 |
owner, Holmes Hobbies LLC Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Volt up! Gear down!
Posts: 20,290
| Re: MOW - Motor on wheel crawler
In the path of stopping my endless analyzing of the mow concept I've ordered some parts that I know will break. But it will be a start at least.
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06-15-2015, 04:52 PM | #10 |
RCC Addict Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Tulsa
Posts: 1,667
| Re: MOW - Motor on wheel crawler
This is going to be a awesome project. I'm thinking run a little larger wheel and make a drop box like on a portal axle and see about running a small motor. That way you can have some gear reduction. Also have you guys thought about steering? Are you going for tank steering or standard with a servo or maybe a combo? |
06-15-2015, 05:36 PM | #11 | |
I wanna be Dave Join Date: May 2010 Location: The east coast
Posts: 2,599
| Re: MOW - Motor on wheel crawler Quote:
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06-15-2015, 07:46 PM | #12 |
RCC Addict Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Tulsa
Posts: 1,667
| Re: MOW - Motor on wheel crawler
Maybe we could finally have a rear cutting axle! Or whatever was supposed to be for the xr10.
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06-17-2015, 09:46 AM | #13 |
Quarry Creeper Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Under a Rock
Posts: 457
| Re: MOW - Motor on wheel crawler
Adding unnecessary weight to the rear of the truck hinders performance all around. Keep it simple and light weight.
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08-02-2015, 12:23 PM | #14 |
Pebble Pounder Join Date: Oct 2014 Location: Canada
Posts: 100
| Re: MOW - Motor on wheel crawler
Any updates to your project? I am very interested in hub drive crawlers but lack the math skills to calculate the size of motors, windings, stator and pole counts to actually make it happen.
Last edited by Savagethrash; 08-08-2015 at 09:55 AM. |
08-14-2015, 11:51 AM | #15 |
RCC Addict Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Near Boston
Posts: 1,233
| Re: MOW - Motor on wheel crawler
Cool Video. I like the servo placement. I have been looking/thinking about a MOW setup for nearly 2 years now. I looked into the gimble motors a while ago, the mechanical package and allure of no gearbox is to fantastic not to investigate. The calculations I ran based on what I could find for gimble specs gave me concern that it would not have sufficient torque. Have you tied this thing together and tried running that axle around yet?? |
08-14-2015, 12:12 PM | #16 |
I wanna be Dave Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Castle Rock, WA
Posts: 8,785
| Re: MOW - Motor on wheel crawler |
08-15-2015, 04:55 PM | #17 |
Rock Crawler Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Knoxville
Posts: 611
| Re: MOW - Motor on wheel crawler
What if you went a different direction with the MOA and left the motors in the chassis? Might give you some more room for gearing?
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02-24-2021, 10:42 AM | #18 |
Newbie Join Date: Feb 2021 Location: San Jose
Posts: 4
| Re: MOW - Motor on wheel crawler
how about a portal axle type gearbox? you'd get some room for gearing and get the motors a little higher up too
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03-23-2021, 05:47 PM | #19 |
I wanna be Dave Join Date: Jun 2017 Location: Humboldt county
Posts: 4,482
| Re: MOW - Motor on wheel crawler
gonper worked up a design that is portal like. Unfortunately Photobucket ate the pictures. He got pretty far along prototyping but I think he gave up or just stopped posting. Lots of work and refining are still needed I believe. Crazy axles idea design |
Tags |
3d print, direct drive, hub, motor, wheel |
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