RCCrawler Forums

twistedone · 08-18-2009, 06:04 PM

Need a vid review look at this vid
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DOwvU...e=channel_page
or this one
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bXBAW...e=channel_page

at the start gate to go to Gate 1 must all 4 tires pass thru the start to consider it cleared or may you break plane and rev around to gate 1

Tanis · 08-18-2009, 06:28 PM

USRCCA rules state just break the plane on start and finish gates. AWCC comps have always been progress on the start and finish gates.

ROCKEDUP RICKY · 08-18-2009, 06:30 PM

You start the clock when you break the plain, so why would you have to get all 4 tires through. IMO We don't get progress for the start gate.

dpdsurf · 08-18-2009, 10:06 PM

It's not like it would have been that much more difficult to get all 4 through. I guess the advantage would be to save time.

How do you interpret the text in red?

6.3 - Gate: A gate is used to mark an obstacle within a course and/or guide the vehicle through the
course. A gate consists of 2 gate markers measuring no less then; 20" for the Super class, and 16” for the
2.2 class, from inside edge of one marker to the inside edge of the opposite marker. Every gate has an intended direction of travel, or “flow”, through the gate.

Did you go "through the gate" in the intended direction? I don't think so, you only broke the plane. And from what I see breaking the plane is only referenced in regards to time, and breaking or passing through the finish are mentioned as options based on course design in the rules.

But this is getting pretty tick tacky, and since the rules do not literally identify this situation, it's up to the judge to decide.

I like an out of bounds line right behind the start to discourage such activities.

Fishmaxx · 08-19-2009, 11:24 AM

In SERCRC comps we gave progress on ALL gates. IMO if the markers are alive then you give progress.

At RCA events we use a start and finish LINE....all the line does is start and stop the clock

JeremyH · 08-19-2009, 11:32 AM

Since you are not awarded progress points for the start gate (I didnt hear anyone call it), I dont see anything illegal.

Our club uses different colored cones (like yours does) to indicate the start line. We dont award progress points for passing that gate and only require people to break the plane to start/stop the clock.

I wouldnt have a problem with what was done...

Grizzly4x4 · 08-19-2009, 12:17 PM

It's perfectly legal to break the plane of the start gate and then back away because the rules (3.14) say you only need to break the plane on a start gate.

The flow through the gate is in reference to gates where you get progress. The rules (1.10) say progress is not awarded for start and finish gates.

Just like if you drive through a gate to get progress then back out of it. You have met the requirements of that gate so what you do after that or what direction you drive through it after clearing it doesn't matter.

twistedone · 08-19-2009, 06:52 PM

Thanks for all the input looks like we might have a good Idea on this one
but keep the comments coming

soundcolor · 08-21-2009, 08:52 AM

I understand the way the courses are setup, but I dont always agree with them.
IMO, gates should be setup so that they progress in difficulty with the first gates being easy, and then getting harder and harder all the way to the end.

Now, having said that, in the case of these videos I do not see any out of bounds markers which would make this completely legal from what I can tell. However, I watched all the videos and I did see one person make it up starting from the start gate... He did roll over, but lined back up at the start line and proceeded through to the first obsticle which he cleared. That shows me that it can be done.

I personally think that there should always be out of bounds markers setup on the course to keep a general direction going. Big enough to allow drivers to pick there line, but not so big as to allow for drivers to be able to go around things they dont think they can do.

If you have ever watched any of the pro rally, or pikes peak hill climb events then you know that they set up the start gate with a long corridor that eventaully gives way to a much wider area of out of bounds. This is done for the main reaon of keeping idiots off the track at the start since its where most people seem to want to be. However in RCRC this could effectively almost force the flow in one direction and eliminate any of this on the first gate...

then again, it would also be a pain in the ass...

I say set out of bounds markers next time.

08-18-2009, 06:04 PM	#1
twistedone Rock Crawler Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Golden Corral getting Fat Posts: 607	Start and finish Gates Need a vid review look at this vid http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DOwvU...e=channel_page or this one http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bXBAW...e=channel_page at the start gate to go to Gate 1 must all 4 tires pass thru the start to consider it cleared or may you break plane and rev around to gate 1

08-18-2009, 06:28 PM	#2
Tanis Keep it real Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Yakima,WA Posts: 6,532	USRCCA rules state just break the plane on start and finish gates. AWCC comps have always been progress on the start and finish gates.

08-18-2009, 06:30 PM	#3
ROCKEDUP RICKY Old guy Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Northwest Arkie-saw and we got ROCKS! Posts: 7,548	You start the clock when you break the plain, so why would you have to get all 4 tires through. IMO We don't get progress for the start gate.

08-18-2009, 10:06 PM	#4
dpdsurf I wanna be Dave Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Pacific Ocean Posts: 2,342	It's not like it would have been that much more difficult to get all 4 through. I guess the advantage would be to save time. How do you interpret the text in red? 6.3 - Gate: A gate is used to mark an obstacle within a course and/or guide the vehicle through the course. A gate consists of 2 gate markers measuring no less then; 20" for the Super class, and 16” for the 2.2 class, from inside edge of one marker to the inside edge of the opposite marker. Every gate has an intended direction of travel, or “flow”, through the gate. Did you go "through the gate" in the intended direction? I don't think so, you only broke the plane. And from what I see breaking the plane is only referenced in regards to time, and breaking or passing through the finish are mentioned as options based on course design in the rules. But this is getting pretty tick tacky, and since the rules do not literally identify this situation, it's up to the judge to decide. I like an out of bounds line right behind the start to discourage such activities.

08-19-2009, 11:24 AM	#5
Fishmaxx I wanna be Dave Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: on a Big Rock Posts: 7,837	In SERCRC comps we gave progress on ALL gates. IMO if the markers are alive then you give progress. At RCA events we use a start and finish LINE....all the line does is start and stop the clock

08-19-2009, 11:32 AM	#6
JeremyH I wanna be Dave Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 16,952	Since you are not awarded progress points for the start gate (I didnt hear anyone call it), I dont see anything illegal. Our club uses different colored cones (like yours does) to indicate the start line. We dont award progress points for passing that gate and only require people to break the plane to start/stop the clock. I wouldnt have a problem with what was done...

08-19-2009, 12:17 PM	#7
Grizzly4x4 PapaGriz Yo Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: In the garage building the wife a crawler Posts: 13,137	It's perfectly legal to break the plane of the start gate and then back away because the rules (3.14) say you only need to break the plane on a start gate. The flow through the gate is in reference to gates where you get progress. The rules (1.10) say progress is not awarded for start and finish gates. Just like if you drive through a gate to get progress then back out of it. You have met the requirements of that gate so what you do after that or what direction you drive through it after clearing it doesn't matter.

08-19-2009, 06:52 PM	#8
twistedone Rock Crawler Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Golden Corral getting Fat Posts: 607	Thanks for all the input looks like we might have a good Idea on this one but keep the comments coming

08-21-2009, 08:52 AM	#9
soundcolor Rock Crawler Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Cottontown Posts: 880	I understand the way the courses are setup, but I dont always agree with them. IMO, gates should be setup so that they progress in difficulty with the first gates being easy, and then getting harder and harder all the way to the end. Now, having said that, in the case of these videos I do not see any out of bounds markers which would make this completely legal from what I can tell. However, I watched all the videos and I did see one person make it up starting from the start gate... He did roll over, but lined back up at the start line and proceeded through to the first obsticle which he cleared. That shows me that it can be done. I personally think that there should always be out of bounds markers setup on the course to keep a general direction going. Big enough to allow drivers to pick there line, but not so big as to allow for drivers to be able to go around things they dont think they can do. If you have ever watched any of the pro rally, or pikes peak hill climb events then you know that they set up the start gate with a long corridor that eventaully gives way to a much wider area of out of bounds. This is done for the main reaon of keeping idiots off the track at the start since its where most people seem to want to be. However in RCRC this could effectively almost force the flow in one direction and eliminate any of this on the first gate... then again, it would also be a pain in the ass... I say set out of bounds markers next time.

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