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12-18-2014, 07:09 PM | #21 |
RCC Addict Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: British Columbia
Posts: 1,487
| Re: Judged Roll Overs - Let's discuss why?
So, John, you're suggesting we dumb down the comp rules just in case there are some scalers out there that may want to try a comp rig? Personally, I don't think it's the rules that keep scalers away from comp rigs. I think they feel intimidated by a more complex rig and the associated cost to build a competitor. Other than the roll-over rule, what others do you think need changing? |
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12-18-2014, 09:49 PM | #22 |
I wanna be Dave Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: here
Posts: 3,042
| Re: Judged Roll Overs - Let's discuss why?
Changing the rules isn't going to get new guys(scale guys) to compete @ a pro comp. It's not the rules keeping people away.
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12-18-2014, 10:29 PM | #23 |
RCC Addict Join Date: May 2012 Location: Folsom
Posts: 1,867
| Re: Judged Roll Overs - Let's discuss why?
I'm just thinking that if you change the rule to work more like a touch repo. I would be pissed if i'm 6 ft from gate 10 and use a rollover to get righted. But because I'm low on time if i went back to gate 9 there's no possibility to finish because there's 25ft between 9 and 10.
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12-18-2014, 10:34 PM | #24 | |
2013 2.2P Nat. Champion Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: BorderLine Crawlers Season 3 is on!
Posts: 2,584
| Re: Judged Roll Overs - Let's discuss why? Quote:
Just leave the rules alone. If you can't perform a rollover you have no business driving a rig. If you cannot judge a rollover you have no business judging. There will always be some level of subjectivity in judging. At some point you must accept that and get over it. I cannot remember the last time an improper rollover caused any problems. Our collective time is far better spent discussing ideas to increase the fanbase of crawling not how to make it more technical and difficult. Let's worry about changing rules when events are selling out again. J | |
12-19-2014, 05:13 AM | #25 |
I wanna be Dave Join Date: May 2010 Location: Stowe
Posts: 3,987
| Re: Judged Roll Overs - Let's discuss why?
The biggest issue comp crawling faces that has been said over and over is the lack of an "affordable" out of the box rig. Building a rig from scratch is why we are such a nitch part of the rc world. Until that changes we will continue to be small. Making too many changes to what is perceived as working well now will only shrink our numbers not make them grow. Right now is a huge turning point for comp crawlers with the change to rcorva/usrcca. We will sink or swim, I am tired of just treading water. I love this hobby and want it to succeed for selfish reasons, I love hanging out with awesome people and just having a great time. Sure I like to do well when I drive but that is not my main focus anymore. This is just my personal take on what is going on.
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12-19-2014, 08:00 AM | #26 | ||
I wanna be Dave Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: JERSEY BOONDOCKS
Posts: 3,360
| Re: Judged Roll Overs - Let's discuss why? Quote:
You're right dude...it's DEFINITELY the way the rules were written that is cause for the decline in comp crawling. There are no other possible factors! Quote:
Lets just face the simple fact that Comp crawling will never be as big as it once was. It grew HUGE in popularity for awhile because that was all there was. Now there is scale (3 classes), mud, U4, Comp (5 classes), pullers, TTC etc etc. Too little butter spread over too much bread.... Last edited by TURBOFEST; 12-19-2014 at 08:22 AM. | ||
12-19-2014, 09:01 AM | #27 |
2013 2.2P Nat. Champion Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: BorderLine Crawlers Season 3 is on!
Posts: 2,584
| Re: Judged Roll Overs - Let's discuss why? |
12-19-2014, 09:39 AM | #28 | |
2013 2.2P Nat. Champion Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: BorderLine Crawlers Season 3 is on!
Posts: 2,584
| Re: Judged Roll Overs - Let's discuss why? Quote:
Some observations. Here are the active (hosting a full season) domestic comp clubs (RCC or FB) that I can find. Please let me know if I've missed any. I'll start the list with the largest comp club in the country and then list the rest from west to east...sorta. BYB CA (15+ drivers per event) NorCal CA BLC CA CVRC CA NARCCA AZ NMRC NM 4CRC2 NM GCRC TX ETRC TN EPARCC PA VARCOR VA SCRCC SC OCK MA BC MA GSRCRC NJ Note some of these clubs don't post comps in the RCC comp section (which makes their comps a few more clicks to find). As an aside, centralized posting in the comps section would be nice IMO. I also feel that Facebook is slowly gaining market share of comp postings from RCC. My point in posting this: If comp crawling experiences any official rules changes I sincerely hope that the heads of all of these clubs are among the voting members. Comp crawling is not about Qualifiers and big events any more. Please let the guys in the trenches each month make the rules. We are the ones affected. Where is the list of RC members again? J Last edited by SkaldidDog; 12-19-2014 at 11:37 AM. | |
12-19-2014, 10:40 AM | #29 |
Tire&Foam Extraordinaire Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: C.I. Compound, Tyler, Texas
Posts: 5,601
| Re: Judged Roll Overs - Let's discuss why? I do not comp crawl with any clubs. I have not competed in a USRCCA formatted event since 2012. The roll over rule changes back in 2011 among other small things damaged most of our club. The club was already suffering due to the cost of high dollar comp crawlers, lack of variety of challenging terrain, and judging in general. Only two guys remain from the original group that still own comp crawlers from the original ETXRCC core group. The etxrcc club has now been taken over by new comers and made entirely into a G6 club now. As for GCRC in Houston, they are down to only a few guys and slowly moving away from the comp crawling. Incidentally, it's a 5 hour drive, each way to compete with that club for me. The DFW or North Texas club is pretty much the same and it's 3 hours each way. Central Texas is gone altogether and West Texas never took off. So comp crawling in the State of Texas is pretty much dead. And I didn't have shit to do with that. I was on Rules Committee for years and did my job for the people I represented. I also don't have shit to do with the fact that comp crawler chassis, links, and other parts are so hard to find and purchase to the average person. I talk with at least one person weekly wanting a highly capable comp crawler and willing to put $500 - $700 out for a good one. I always suggest RCC Classifieds, pay the $20, get the star, read and research. I'm not advocating dumbing down the rules. What am I advocating, is possibly re-addressing some rules with a fresh perspective. JRH owns the show now. |
12-19-2014, 10:41 AM | #30 |
Tire&Foam Extraordinaire Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: C.I. Compound, Tyler, Texas
Posts: 5,601
| Re: Judged Roll Overs - Let's discuss why? |
12-19-2014, 10:50 AM | #31 | |
Tire&Foam Extraordinaire Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: C.I. Compound, Tyler, Texas
Posts: 5,601
| Re: Judged Roll Overs - Let's discuss why? Quote:
I agree with your statement "Too little butter spread over too much bread...." However, It's USRCCA Competition RC Rock Crawling and you sir ARE ONE OF THE FREAKING BEST IN THE WORLD!!!!! So if you can passively let comp crawling fade away, when you a f'ing leader in the world, I see no need to discuss further. You have accepted a back seat to other genres of RC competition. This is where I disagree with you ALL, Competitive Comp Crawling could return if it was better planned and managed. It starts with making the format simple and repeatable for any mom and pop hobby store to implement. Keep it simple, and consistent!! | |
12-19-2014, 11:12 AM | #32 | |
2013 2.2P Nat. Champion Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: BorderLine Crawlers Season 3 is on!
Posts: 2,584
| Re: Judged Roll Overs - Let's discuss why? Quote:
It can only get so simple. Drive your truck through the gates. If a newb does an iffy rollover who cares. Use it as a learning experience or, as a judge, do it for him. Show him the ropes. The clarity and ease of implementation of USRCCA rules is not the problem. It may be a problem but let's get more drivers and deal with rules and stuff when we have no other hurdles to clear. J | |
12-19-2014, 11:23 AM | #33 |
I wanna be Dave Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: JERSEY BOONDOCKS
Posts: 3,360
| Re: Judged Roll Overs - Let's discuss why?
Joel...GSRCRC can be on that list as well. Thank you Sir!
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12-19-2014, 11:30 AM | #34 | |
I wanna be Dave Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: JERSEY BOONDOCKS
Posts: 3,360
| Re: Judged Roll Overs - Let's discuss why? Quote:
Passively let comp crawling fade away??? I have been flying the flag for 8 years and am still. I was at Nationals this year just the same as every other year since 08, I participated heavily in managing the event. I also run my club and schedule and run all our comps. So, I'M not TAKING a back seat to anything. I'm just acknowledging the reality of the situation. | |
12-19-2014, 11:37 AM | #35 |
2013 2.2P Nat. Champion Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: BorderLine Crawlers Season 3 is on!
Posts: 2,584
| Re: Judged Roll Overs - Let's discuss why? |
12-19-2014, 04:13 PM | #36 |
Rock Stacker Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Greensburg, PA
Posts: 70
| Re: Judged Roll Overs - Let's discuss why?
Sorry to be off topic but our club isn't listed a few posts back. W.Pa.C. (Western Pennsylvania Crawlers) has a full comp class summer series every year and until we lost the building a full comp class winter series as well. We don't post the events here all the time because we have our own website at wpacrawlers.com. I did post the link here to the schedule last summer if I recall correctly.
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12-20-2014, 11:11 AM | #37 |
Rock Crawler Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Great Outdoors
Posts: 651
| Re: Judged Roll Overs - Let's discuss why?
Since this thread has morphed into what the hell happened to our sport, it should probably be retitled. I've seen two comp clubs die in SoCal in two years. What remains is a shadow of what it was recently. I don't think the rules are responsible. Don't really think hardware availability is responsible because the beginner classes were the first to disappear. There's no novice, no sportsman, and no shafty2.2 to speak of. Those are the easiest cars to come by. I suppose it could be the not enough butter theory, but the ex-comp'rs don't seem to be over at the other venues either. I think it's the people. Many of you are serious, have been around long enough to have clawed your way to the top and you like the status-quo. DON'T CHANGE A DAMNED THING. But in your success, you've pushed success out of reach for new people. They show up, try for a while, get discouraged and quit. I don't know how to fix that, maybe it's unfixable. But I do know there are a lot of arrogant people on this forum and what goes around, comes around. Flame away. Last edited by Hardline; 12-20-2014 at 11:13 AM. |
12-20-2014, 11:39 AM | #38 |
owner, Holmes Hobbies LLC Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Volt up! Gear down!
Posts: 20,290
| Re: Judged Roll Overs - Let's discuss why?
Growth will start from trail class since the rigs are easy and cheap to source, the only class where rtr rigs can compete. But when I say that exclusively scale clubs are deterred from running trail class because of judging complexity, it's either ignored or deflected because there are bigger issues too. Change will not come from within like a zen master, nor will existing clubs ever agree on any change for better or worse. People get set in their ways and don't like changes at all, and as minor as this would be to the format of an event it's being poo-pood as being a most unreasonable topic to be discussing. Overall, it's a dammed if you do and dammed if you don't situation. Alienate existing competitors for the sake of a much broader segment, or appease them and keep grinding down our numbers until nobody is left to object? |
12-20-2014, 12:01 PM | #39 |
RCC Addict Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Surrey,BC- Canada
Posts: 1,663
| Re: Judged Roll Overs - Let's discuss why?
Ok here is my 2 cent from a small club up here in canada IMO the biggest reason for the decline is the economy. When it was going there were tons of people out crawling plus there were comp crawler you could buy off the self like the xr. Without having a crawler u can buy of the self it does not make it easy for the new guy to get into the sport/hobby. Yes u can go onto rcc and find a great crawler for a sweet price. But without someone telling u about rcc you would have no idea where to look. As for the rules well I don't think that is the issue. We run both crawler and scale event together. IMO most of if not 90% of the scale guy have no interest in comp crawling. But with that said the new sportsman class has brought a few over to the crawler side and even a couple of those have now showed interest in the pro class. But like already said there are so many option now that it has watered down all classes. The roll over rule is not the issue we use the roll over rule in scale as well and really if the truck moves a 1/8" when rolling over is not going to make the difference in who the best drive is. We went from a club using the past presidents own rules that he figured worked best. They did work good for scale but IMO were to relaxed on the crawler guys, so last yr I change the crawler side over to the Usrcca rules and it was a easy move for everyone. Of course we all had an idea of how rules work even tho they were a little different. Also we want to be on the same page as the rest of the world. Did a couple fight the new rules of course a couple did. Some people just don't like change. We are very relaxed on this rule and the better drive always wins. As for the repo IMO as long as part of the truck is in the plane of the gate should be good enough. I think there needs to be a novice class for the new comers. The one think I hear from the new guys is I will never be able to beat that guy so why should I stay. We run a novice class so that we don't scare off the new guys, They get to run against everyone but are scored against other movie guys and we give a novice prizes at yr end. If you win novice you move to pro. What we need to focus on is getting the manufacture back into the hobby to make crawling accessible to the average person. This is how I got into the sport seen a xr crawling and was like dam my ax-10 can't do that. Until this happens were fighting a uphill battle that I hope we can win. Oh and people have to stop whining grow a set of balls and just get out there and tell yourself one day I will bet that guy. This is how my brother and I approach it when we first started. We got are asses handed to us at first but by the end of our first season we were giving the seasoned guys a run for there money. You just have to stick with it nothing come easy Last edited by chevotafun; 12-20-2014 at 12:25 PM. |
12-20-2014, 12:16 PM | #40 |
I wanna be Dave Join Date: May 2010 Location: Stowe
Posts: 3,987
| Re: Judged Roll Overs - Let's discuss why?
This is your baby now JRH. We will follow your lead. I don't feel judging is too complex. People do not want the responsibility of judging, they would rather stand around and BS than step up or are afraid that they will make an error. I think that if a rule change is explained clearly and is logical there should not be an issue. Changing something just for the sake of change is foolish. On the local level the rules have been used and adjusted to meet the needs of the clubs. I know the club I belong to has several addendums regarding the rules and how we wish to interpret them. The change that was suggested could be written as an option to rolling over. For worlds events it should be standard and consistent.
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