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12-20-2014, 03:49 PM | #41 |
Rock Crawler Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Great Outdoors
Posts: 651
| Re: Judged Roll Overs - Let's discuss why?
Judging is a significant problem in the sport. Judges are just people, some are picky and hard-nosed, others are easy going and don't want to upset. One would think that if the same person judged a course all day, it would be uniform, thus fair, regardless of his approach. But I've never seen a single judge work the entire field at a major. Chances are, he's a competitor too, and needs to be spelled for his own runs. Or he needs a lunch or bathroom break. Or they alternate two judges to get people through faster. Judging is subjective when it comes to flying over gates (float?), legal roll-overs, how close to a marker is too close. It's even worse at regional events where everybody takes a stint at judging because few individuals are willing to judge all day. Again, I don't know how to fix the problem, but rewriting rules to eliminate some of the required subjective calls would help. IE the roll-over rule we've been discussing and banning over-flights. Between the markers means BETWEEN the markers....not 2 feet above them. I've seen terrible calls on this on a pretty regular basis. Many not getting called on floats where others were. |
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12-20-2014, 04:56 PM | #42 |
RCC Addict Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: British Columbia
Posts: 1,487
| Re: Judged Roll Overs - Let's discuss why?
Judging IS subjective. Not just crawling, but other sports as well. Nothing we can do about that unless you want to spring for multiple cameras and the "instant replay". Flying over/through gates is definitely a tough call, but what do we do about that? Do we make all the courses so flat and easy that every truck keeps it's tires on the ground for the duration of the run? Boring. If a club has a problem with judges correctly calling floats, then maybe it needs to provide a second judge...or the "instant replay". Roll-overs we've discussed. Maybe you could cover that with the flat course rule. "how close to a marker is too close?" Close isn't a penalty. A gate touch is. Not always easy to see, depending on the speed of the truck, but it is what it is. The OP suggested that the roll-over rule was part of the reason hardly anyone in his club is crawling anymore due to the complexity of the rules. Many of the best drivers in the country have chimed in and stated clearly that the rules are fine as they are. Let's move on. We're all interested in adding members to our respective crawler rosters and there are things that we can do to help promote the sport. Those are the things we need to focus on...rule changes are not the hangup. Speaking of rules, I hope JRH reinstates some kind of rules committee as that is the democratic way to make changes. |
12-20-2014, 05:06 PM | #43 |
RCC Addict Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: British Columbia
Posts: 1,487
| Re: Judged Roll Overs - Let's discuss why?
I'd like to add: I watched every video available (some, several times) of the 2014 World's and did NOT see any issues with judging. I realize there may have been a few questionable calls during some of the the preliminaries, but the finals were handled masterfully, IMO. Those that were there in person possibly may have some objections. |
12-20-2014, 05:18 PM | #44 |
I wanna be Dave Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: here
Posts: 3,042
| Re: Judged Roll Overs - Let's discuss why?
The rules are simple 4 wheels between gates = progress without penalty. Roll backs/ rollovers really aren't hard to make a judgement call on. Multiple judges are necessary no one wants to stand on the rocks all day. (Some do judge all day) IMO, you guys wanting to change rules should just have comp GTG with no rules "free run courses" to promote your local clubs. |
12-20-2014, 06:03 PM | #45 |
I wanna be Dave Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: .
Posts: 7,967
| Re: Judged Roll Overs - Let's discuss why?
Turbos bread and butter comment was dead nuts. Make the bread smaller so the budda will cover, less is more in the niche that is comp crawling. Many cannot afford to have and keep up 5 rigs to run all these classes, let alone afford to be out of town for 3-4 days to run them all, flame away but 5 comp crawling classes may be too much. Last edited by ROWDY RACING; 12-20-2014 at 06:07 PM. |
12-20-2014, 07:10 PM | #46 |
RCC Addict Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: British Columbia
Posts: 1,487
| Re: Judged Roll Overs - Let's discuss why?
There was some talk just before World's that any class that didn't have enough participants may be dropped for 2015. Has there been any more discussion on that?
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12-20-2014, 07:27 PM | #47 | |
owner, Holmes Hobbies LLC Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Volt up! Gear down!
Posts: 20,290
| Re: Judged Roll Overs - Let's discuss why? Quote:
This thread has had great discussion overall and has given me further ideas on the matter of judging. I think it best to absolutely ensure that regional, national, and world events have defined rules, but to also give local groups and hobby shops the structure to host events that are much easier to run. I've got to simmer on the overall concept a bit longer, but think I have an idea that will work. | |
12-20-2014, 07:34 PM | #48 |
owner, Holmes Hobbies LLC Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Volt up! Gear down!
Posts: 20,290
| Re: Judged Roll Overs - Let's discuss why? Classes aren't going to be dropped, but there will be an emphasis on the popular ones for an overall title at next years large events. Much of knowing what classes are popular and where hinges on people using RCorva.com to list their event and attendance. Without the data in one central place its basically a guessing game or an accountants worst nightmare. So start use the dang website people, otherwise we are flying blind and I wasted many thousands of dollars trying to organize the usrcca with a nice database system.
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12-21-2014, 08:57 AM | #49 |
I wanna be Dave Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: roland,ar
Posts: 5,981
| Re: Judged Roll Overs - Let's discuss why?
Ive used the "instant replay" several times at our comps.. One good thing about having a camera rolling during each comp. |
12-22-2014, 07:52 AM | #50 |
www.ottsix.com Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Albuquerque, New Mexico USA
Posts: 2,050
| Re: Judged Roll Overs - Let's discuss why?
Redcat racing is making a new shaft-ed rig, I have an RS10 and it's not bad quality for the price and I'll bet the same is true of their new rig. I'm going to pick up a few for our club so visitors can give it a go
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12-22-2014, 11:45 AM | #51 | |
I wanna be Dave Join Date: May 2010 Location: Stowe
Posts: 3,987
| Re: Judged Roll Overs - Let's discuss why? Quote:
LOL Damn you Rowdy, I just got a super built. I do agree that time off work and cost of travel is a big challenge. That is why I have to pick and choose what bigger events I attend. | |
12-22-2014, 11:50 AM | #52 | |
I wanna be Dave Join Date: May 2010 Location: Stowe
Posts: 3,987
| Re: Judged Roll Overs - Let's discuss why? Quote:
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12-22-2014, 12:15 PM | #53 | |
RCC Addict Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Surrey,BC- Canada
Posts: 1,663
| Re: Judged Roll Overs - Let's discuss why? Quote:
We wouldn't be running till march if we didn't have a indoor spot to crawl. | |
12-22-2014, 12:25 PM | #54 |
owner, Holmes Hobbies LLC Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Volt up! Gear down!
Posts: 20,290
| Re: Judged Roll Overs - Let's discuss why?
If you are hosting events and not posting them because it isn't part of the regular series, you are just shorting your club of valuable information that can be used to help get vendor participation and show how active you are. It will take a few years to get rich information gathered and the winter will be sparse, but more clubs than not are putting it off while I see new events posted in the regional sections. The clubs that have recorded comps and get togethers starting earlier will get the most attention when it's time to start pushing sponsors and prizes down from the top. So to the people who are being lazy and waiting until the series officially starts, fair warning of the consequences. Last edited by JohnRobHolmes; 12-22-2014 at 12:27 PM. |
12-22-2014, 12:34 PM | #55 | |
RCC Addict Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Surrey,BC- Canada
Posts: 1,663
| Re: Judged Roll Overs - Let's discuss why? Quote:
There should be a rules committee and that committee should be made up of the presidents of the clubs supporting the USRCCA. These are the people dealing with the rules on a regular basis. Maybe not all of them, but pick a committee out of those people. The local guys should be running the same rules as what would be run at a National event, so that you are always driving under the same rules and then these rules become second nature to those people and then when these said people goto a national event there should be no issue's with the rules. | |
12-22-2014, 12:37 PM | #56 | |
RCC Addict Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Surrey,BC- Canada
Posts: 1,663
| Re: Judged Roll Overs - Let's discuss why? Quote:
We just got the club signed up the person in charged of that was on holidays and didn't get it finish before he left but is on it now . | |
12-22-2014, 07:13 PM | #57 |
I wanna be Dave Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: here
Posts: 3,042
| Re: Judged Roll Overs - Let's discuss why? |
12-22-2014, 07:42 PM | #58 |
owner, Holmes Hobbies LLC Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Volt up! Gear down!
Posts: 20,290
| Re: Judged Roll Overs - Let's discuss why?
Don't know overall at the lower levels, but the regional events have kept a more consistent turnout. It's a group of pretty dedicated modelers that use sorcca rules, and the hosts have kept it consistent over the years.
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01-05-2015, 03:18 PM | #59 |
RCP CRAWLERS Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Upland CA
Posts: 1,541
| Re: Judged Roll Overs - Let's discuss why?
As in everything in life... money is the biggest factor in any decision making....rules and great drivers/builders are not the problem. Most people want a challenge, but if it costs a fortune or takes 3 months of reading threads to figure out what your doing, people get discouraged. We need an ARTR comp crawler that is competitive out of the box...the XR10 was close.... but failed because Axial tried to make it too affordable. This sport is not for the pleasure crawlers, it takes practice, dedication and money. |
01-06-2015, 04:36 PM | #60 |
RCC Addict Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Surrey,BC- Canada
Posts: 1,663
| Re: Judged Roll Overs - Let's discuss why?
Well said Zoso so true I said the same thing a page back or so I really believe this is one of the biggest if not the biggest issue are hobby has. If the average person can't walk into a hobby store or online and buy an RTR crawler at a decent price the sport/hobby will never grow. As ZoSo just said people lose interest if they have to wait 3 to 4 months to pcs a crawler together before they can play with it. When the number were big in crawling is when the xr10 was in all the hobby stores. Yes the xr10 could have used a few tweaks but a decent starting point. Last edited by chevotafun; 01-06-2015 at 04:38 PM. |
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